The Iraq thread 3

[der bastler 0]

The international community can not let insurgency and terror convince them back down from the job and stop us from doing what is right to do.

Who stops you from doing your war? Do you really need this weak international community of wimps forming the UN? Just send in more troops...

[/sarcasm]

[Rishon 0]

The international community can not let insurgency and terror convince them back down from the job and stop us from doing what is right to do.

Who stops you from doing your war? Do you really need this weak international community of wimps forming the UN? Just send in more troops...

[/sarcasm]

Der Bastler the Sparkling example of a jackass.

What kind of justice do you have?! You'd probrable rather grow fat than help others. I'm tired of you, go back to your hole.

[der bastler 0]

What kind of justice do you have?! You'd probrable rather grow fat than help others. I'm tired of you, go back to your hole.

I can sense someone really freaking out...

[Rishon 0]

What kind of justice do you have?! You'd probrable rather grow fat than help others. I'm tired of you, go back to your hole.

I can sense someone really freaking out...

[denoir 0]

What kind of justice do you have?!

Justice in the form that we don't beat up elderly women on the streets and in the same spirit we don't launch wars of agression against countries that are no threat to us.

Quote[/b] ]You'd probrable rather grow fat than help others.

Yeah, the Iraqis so much like your help that more than 70% of them support the killing of US troops. Yeah, you're "helping" Iraq the same way Iraq "helped" Kuwait in 1991.

[Rishon 0]

What kind of justice do you have?!

Justice in the form that we don't beat up elderly women on the streets and in the same spirit we don't launch wars of agression against countries that are no threat to us.

Quote[/b] ]You'd probrable rather grow fat than help others.

Yeah, the Iraqis so much like your help that more than 70% of them support the killing of US troops. Yeah, you're "helping" Iraq the same way Iraq "helped" Kuwait in 1991.

Beating up old ladies is fun! Just Kidding. Attacking Iraq was the best choice we could have made under the circumstances. you know what they say, hind sight is 20/20.

Iraq invaded Kuwait and had to be forced out of it. We recently handed Iraq its own soverignty. 90% of Iraqi's support us, mainly because we got rid of saddam, then again you probably wouldn't know what that means to them. Out of the Months I spent there, I only got shot at three times. If 70% of them hated us, we'd be screwed.

[denoir 0]

Iraq invaded Kuwait and had to be forced out of it.

So you are saying that just like the world liberated Kuwait from Iraq, the world has a responsibility to liberate Iraq from America?  

Quote[/b] ]90% of Iraqi's support us, mainly because we got rid of saddam, then again you probably wouldn't know what that means to them. Out of the Months I spent there, I only got shot at three times. If 70% of them hated us, we'd be screwed.

Sorry, 70% was wrong - I remembered it incorrectly - those were values from Fallujah, not for the whole Iraq.

Here are the actual numbers from the latest survey, that covers whole of Iraq:

[ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3847023.stm ]

31% supports attacks on coallition troops

56% think the occupation was wrong

55% oppose the presence of US troops

16% said that the coalition was a "liberating force"

10% said that the coalition was a "peace keeping force"

51% said that the coalition was an "occupying force"

18% said that the coalition was a force that "exploits iraq"

Edit, and oh yeah very interesting:

69% of those questioned said no priority should be given to "dealing with members" of the previous regime.

So much for their burning hatred of Saddam...

[Rishon 0]

Ok then, I don't really care now, we are there with UN Approval, we gave them sovereignty and the leadership wants us to help them set up an army. Deals done. We needed this war to give our troops an Idea of how war works now adays and get them to gain some experience. Right about now, we are one of the most war ridden armies in the world. Armies need exercise too. I got experience, my buddies got experience. We are all proud that we coudl serve our country and hope we can do it again.

[ralphwiggum 6]

The international community can not let insurgency and terror convince them back down from the job and stop us from doing what is right to do.

Who stops you from doing your war? Do you really need this weak international community of wimps forming the UN? Just send in more troops...

[/sarcasm]

Der Bastler the Sparkling example of a jackass.

What kind of justice do you have?! You'd probrable rather grow fat than help others. I'm tired of you, go back to your hole.

sparkling example of breaking forum rules. please await decision.

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]We needed this war to give our troops an Idea of how war works now adays and get them to gain some experience.

For the sake of humanity I hope you are one of the kiddies who like to pretend they are GI Joes over the forums.

Have you no value of life?This statement is just as barbaric as the beheadings performed by Al-Queda.

You are simply put out of your minds and an offence not only to tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi men,women and children killed but also to hundreads of US serviceman who died and thousands more who lost their limbs over there to learn how "war goes now a days"

[redliner47 0]

I agree with you quicksand, war isn't a training tool, its a last resort if all forms of diplomacy fail.

Rishon, your views of war and combat seem a bit clouded to me. Your views are quite barbaric and you seem to have been desensitized by the media. My advice to you: If you truly have served as you said you have, look back on your experiences and tell me they haven't left a scar. Right now it seems that you think death is nothing important and it will never effect you and its that feeling of immortality that gets one killed

[Gollum1 0]

Ok then, I don't really care now, we are there with UN Approval, we gave them sovereignty and the leadership wants us to help them set up an army. Deals done. We needed this war to give our troops an Idea of how war works now adays and get them to gain some experience. Right about now, we are one of the most war ridden armies in the world. Armies need exercise too. I got experience, my buddies got experience. We are all proud that we coudl serve our country and hope we can do it again.

Oh and thousands of people were killed...no big deal really.

[Joku_ 0]

Quote[/b] ]But i guess youre joking ,not that mass bombardlments arn't done anymore these days ,but they inflict a lot of dissent especially in democratic nations.

Btw, I think that sensivity to civilian casualties is the main reason why guerilla warfare is nowadays so effective. And yes, I was mostly joking but it is true that defeating insurgency would be far easier without peace movements, UN and TV-reporters.

Quote[/b] ]And why would they surrender? They can rather lay their arms down and dress them up as normal civilians again and let the insurgency stop for a few days until the Americans are gone again.

If americans said that they won't go until a certain number has surrendered or given their arms, they might do it to prevent themselves and their friends being starved..

[HOBOMAN 0]

The problem is that the coalition is having a difficult time with gavering intelligence to prevent insurents from atacking convoys and such else. Right now we need to focus on taking pre-emptive action so we can shield the new yet weak state of Iraq from insurgency. Once they are strong, we can let them go, but for now the colation we be in Iraq for about 2 years more (my guess)

[HOBOMAN 0]

The international community can not let insurgency and terror convince them back down from the job and stop us from doing what is right to do.

Who stops you from doing your war? Do you really need this weak international community of wimps forming the UN? Just send in more troops...

[/sarcasm]

We do not want upset other nation because of the situation in iraq, so in furture cause, old allies still stay.

But even if everyone doesn't agree with the war, the US has to do what they think is right.

[ran 0]

But even if everyone doesn't agree with the war, the US has to do what they think is right.

The world wasn't built over good intentions.

In this situation the US has to do what IS right, not what they think is right, slight nuance there, and to do so, listenning to what the others have to say and taking things from different perspectives might help ... going on the same path the US government and military followed until then won't help and will just degradate the already awkward situation.

[walker 0]

Hi all

It did not realy make much of a splash in the news as TBA and TBA2 would rather we did not talk about it but the day before yesterday saw the one thousandth coalition casulaty in this stupid war.

Quote[/b] ]Death toll for U.S.-led coalition in Iraq tops 1,000

Friday, July 9, 2004 Posted: 2115 GMT (0515 HKT)

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- In a grim milestone, the number of deaths in the American-led coalition in Iraq surpassed 1,000 this week.

The latest reported deaths include a U.S. soldier who died from wounds in fighting Thursday in Baghdad, an American soldier killed in a Samarra attack Wednesday and another who died in a nonbattle-related incident Thursday.

The deaths bring multinational fatalities -- both in combat and "nonhostile" situations -- to 1,002 since the start of the war in March 2003. U.S. military deaths now total 881.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/07/09/iraq.main/index.html

Sadly walker

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Ok then, I don't really care now, we are there with UN Approval

What approval was that exactly??

Quote[/b] ]we gave them sovereignty

Sovereighnty is not having a foreign nations troops running around blowing your country up.

Quote[/b] ]We needed this war to give our troops an Idea of how war works now adays and get them to gain some experience. Right about now, we are one of the most war ridden armies in the world. Armies need exercise too. I got experience, my buddies got experience. We are all proud that we coudl serve our country and hope we can do it again.

What the hell??

So now this is all just a big training exercise??? The troops dead? The civilians dead? The loss of international prestige?? The loss of allies?? The loss of goodwill?? The destabilization of an entire region of the world??

All so you and your buddies can go play Rambo in the sand, and kill people that never threatened you??

I hope to god you are not really in the military. Your kind should be booted out of the service with no benefits what so ever.

You are the worst example of a soldier.

[mr_rOk 0]

Quote[/b] ]We needed this war to give our troops an Idea of how war works now adays and get them to gain some experience. Right about now, we are one of the most war ridden armies in the world. Armies need exercise too. I got experience, my buddies got experience. We are all proud that we coudl serve our country and hope we can do it again.

@ rishon

That and oil, not weapons of mass destruction; your president is a liar and a con;

the Bush dynasty wants oil fields just like their family friends, the monarchy of Saudi Arabia.

Don't get me wrong, I respect ALL the fighting men and women, but not your government nor the false pretenses which lead to the invasion.

[Balschoiw 0]

I doubt that Rishon has ever set one foot onto Iraq´s soil. I doubt he is a soldier either. A soldier would never speak such nonsense, like Iraq was a "training ground".

That´s bull.

[HOBOMAN 0]

The world wasn't built over good intentions.

True, but that's why we have military and law enforcement systems. Heck If the world was builr over good intentions we wouldn't be talking on this topic.

[denoir 0]

And that's why there are global organizations like the UN where you get a global perspective on things. A majority of countries warned the US that the post-war situation would become messy.

The French foreign minister Dominique de Villepin said in his his speechto the UN sec council before the war:

Quote[/b] ]The option of war might seem a priori to be the swiftest. But let us not forget that having won the war, one has to build peace. Let us not delude ourselves; this will be long and difficult because it will be necessary to preserve Iraq's unity and restore stability in a lasting way in a country and region harshly affected by the intrusion of force.

People warned you not to do it because the risks were great.

I find it very funny that a US senate panel has now after two years concluded that there was an 'intelligence failure'. This was already pointed out before the war. Nobody knew the status of Saddam's WMD. And that's why people wanted continued inspections - they were making good progress. Bush went to war because in his own word "he was out of patience". Oh, what a surprise that your intelligence is bad when you don't actually take tame to collect it.

And that is not decisive, it's reckless. And now over 1,000 American lives and 10,000+ Iraqi lives have been lost.

[Joku_ 0]

Iraqi war surely has been pointless, at least with current goals and the way it has been done. Though I don't really mind if US attacks some 3rd world countries as long as it doesn't have ill effects on other western countries.

I have a rather Machiavellistic attitude towards war: there should be some benefit (for a country participating in it) from it, otherwise it's pointless. For a defensive war the benefit could be maintaining sovereignity, or in US's case WMD, changing government or oil. And btw, I also consider war as diplomacy's extension, not necessarily a failure.  

If reason was WMD, the war surely was pointless.

If it was changing government, actions during occupation were somewhat inappropriate. For example, they shouldn't have fired all bathists and iraqi army but just put somebody more obedient guy than Saddam in power. After that, get out as soon as Saddam is found. Iraqi army could also have been used to maintain order instead of US troops. This would have resulted in smaller US (and UK) casualties and not piss off iraqis so much.

If oil was motive, US could have done things quite similarly until capturing Saddam. After that they could have withdrawn most troops and just guard oil related facilities from bases in deserts and pump oil like hell.  

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

And that's why there are global organizations like the UN where you get a global perspective on things. A majority of countries warned the US that the post-war situation would become messy.

The French foreign minister Dominique de Villepin said in his his speechto the UN sec council before the war:

Quote[/b] ]The option of war might seem a priori to be the swiftest. But let us not forget that having won the war, one has to build peace. Let us not delude ourselves; this will be long and difficult because it will be necessary to preserve Iraq's unity and restore stability in a lasting way in a country and region harshly affected by the intrusion of force.

People warned you not to do it because the risks were great.

I find it very funny that a US senate panel has now after two years concluded that there was an 'intelligence failure'. This was already pointed out before the war. Nobody knew the status of Saddam's WMD. And that's why people wanted continued inspections - they were making good progress. Bush went to war because in his own word "he was out of patience". Oh, what a surprise that your intelligence is bad when you don't actually take tame to collect it.

And that is not decisive, it's reckless. And now over 1,000 American lives and 10,000+ Iraqi lives have been lost.

They wanted to continue inspections becauser to be honsest at the time nobody wanted to really do anything about Saddam, everyone thought Saddam had stockpiles of WMD's, all there intelligence(and lack of) sugested he did, maybe some thought that he did not have weapons but they were in the minority, but Most of the U.N and the respectful countries all believed he had weapons and probally thought they would turn up via inspections, again most thought the containment of saddam was good enough.

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

Iraqi war surely has been pointless, at least with current goals and the way it has been done.

From a very synical (sp?) view, it has directed alot of AQ operations away from mainland US along with creating somesort of Front line against the so called "enemy".