The Iraq thread 3

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]hile you have no point you try to make up some. Won´t work billybob.

Bals,

compare the ny times and the uk link...one is more in-depth, and deals with election and Iraq. The people who were asked the questions were majority voters....

Quote[/b] ]Do so. I´m not talking about "points", it´s a landslide loss Bush´s Iraq policy faces right now. Nothing else. Not "points"  

People lost faith in the TBA, that´s what the poll shows.

You were the one talking about "popularity".....

Quote[/b] ]

Iraq doubts keep Bush's popularity on the slide

Steady he goes - down to the seabed...

Is this your post....

Edit

[Pathy 0]

I say we get Avon elected to lead Israel.

First order in government is to have 2 A4 Skyahawks fly out and drop nuclear weapons on Palestine.

A Trident missile is then launched from HMS Spartan or something and bye bye Israel. The next 15 minutes is a frenzy of comms between Paris, London, Washington, Beijing, Moscow, Delhi and Islamabad. The main question is, do we destroy the Earth? Well with politicians who have restraint then no. The world lives happily ever after. The End.

Glad to see you've hit bottom with your fiction and sarcasm.

Big hero. Come on over and try to take out an ever-shifting target in Gaza with an assault team without getting killed on the way in.

Your ignorance of the situations involved shows.

Your interest in destroying Israel shows you for the anti-semitic filthy racist that you are.

I dont want to get into a flame war, but i have to say, your own views could be seen by some as "filthy anti arab racist".....it does sometimes strike ME that way, i dont know about anyone else  

Sorry that seems like a totally pointless post looking at it without further comment. Point is, noone is innocent.

i guess you are not in the position of being bombed at any time and living in that state of fear every day of your life like avon does (Living in Israel) she has not posted her views on the particular topic to keep the forums semi flame free, i'm not american but it seems that Anti-American statements on this forum are allowed for some reason.

Try reading my earlier posts rather than posting a response  "from the hip"

refering to

Quote[/b] ]Jinef i agree with you Avons opinions seem extreme. But then she has the various baggage that comes with living constantly with such a threat, which no doubt distorts her perception of the muslim world.....its nothing unusual, its human nature, when you end up with 2 factions opposing each other, its easy to forget the common person on the other side is someone just like you........

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

yes i did read it, but u still continue on the same line of baiting.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]compare the ny times and the uk link...one is more in-depth, and deals with election and Iraq. The people who were asked the questions were majority voters....

Voters = grown up´s = people worth asking for a poll

I doubt a poll among kids and teenagers like they are represented here would have any credibility nor relevance at all.

While you try to rediret attention elesewhere, the interesting part is that the support for the Iraq policy of Mr. Bush slipped from over 80 percent to a minority.

That´s the point. Nothing else.

Of course this will have no effect on the elections, as Bush will bring down Castro (check the latest sanctions), shoot down incoming missiles with a system that bypasses governmental law during it´s creation, brings "carpet-democracy" to ME countries with a smile but without Mc Donalds, will capture Bin Laden (any news on that lately ?), will drill for oil in the arctics, will pollute on, will demonize sex, will demonize gays, will provide duct tape for every household to seal of the house in case of a WMD attack, will tell investigational comissions that they are wrong because he´s the president and so on and so on.

BTW veovis, we in europe are not only judging Bush by the war, but we also know about his great domestical policy and his whacko programs. We know about tax-cut, medicare, the AIDS programme, we know about the "no child left behind" program, I dare to say that some of us know more about Bush´s inner policy than you do about any program of a european country, besides the UK of course.

[DracoPaladore 0]

will capture Bin Laden (any news on that lately ?)

Yeah:

"We were pretty close several times"

[Veovis 0]

Quote[/b] ]brings "carpet-democracy" to ME countries with a smile but without Mc Donalds

You lost me there...

Quote[/b] ]will drill for oil in the arctics

Good. Meanwhile John Kerry will bitch about protecting the environment and bitch about foreign oil dependency at the same time.

Quote[/b] ]will demonize sex, will demonize gays

We're too busy demonizing terrorism right now. Maybe later. Also, using 'demonize' to describe Bush's views on legal marriage is ridiculous. I have yet to see him demonize sex.

Quote[/b] ]will provide duct tape for every household to seal of the house in case of a WMD attack

I like duct tape. Comes in handy.

Quote[/b] ]I dare to say that some of us know more about Bush´s inner policy than you do about any program of a european country, besides the UK of course.

I didn't mean to imply that I knew anything about European policies, UK included.

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

BTW veovis, we in europe are not only judging Bush by the war, but we also know about his great domestical policy and his whacko programs. We know about tax-cut, medicare, the AIDS programme, we know about the "no child left behind" program, I dare to say that some of us know more about Bush´s inner policy than you do about any program of a european country, besides the UK of course.  

erm aint the US the leading contributer aid for AID's victims in Africa in proportion to its GNP?

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Mr. Duke, I posted some solutions 2 pages back but I suppose you chose to ignore those.  

There are plenty of intelligent ways to fight terrorism but invading Iraq was not one of them.  Indeed there were more then 20 fanatics, but at the time of 9/11 there were probably no more then 2,000 or so hardcore Al-Qaeda.  Now with the invasion of Iraq, there are likely hundreds of thousands of Al-Qaeda supporters who now see them as the only real defense against American aggression and oppression of Islamic countries.   Every day we stay in Iraq, every day we kill civilians (that of coarse always get into the Arab press), is a day that AL-Qaeda gets new converts to their extremist ideology.   The Arab press demonizes us as the savages and barbarians just as our press demonizes all Muslims who fight us and lumps them together with the most extreme groups.

However your belief seems to indicate that you wish for genocide of all Muslims.   But I can tell you that if that were to happen we would have a civil war in America.  America would cease becoming America as we arrested, butchered, and hunted down all Muslims and suspected Muslims.  

I don't think the EU would stand idly by either.  Someone would likely try to stop our descent into maddness.  

If the next American administration believes as you do  that violence is the only solution to this problem then we will almost certainly face a world war and God only knows who will be against us.   I know fundamentalist Christians just jump for joy and praise Jesus because they think they're gonna be going to heaven with Jesus just as Islamic extremists believe the same, that Jesus will come back on Judgement Day to deliver the word of Islam to everyone and that they will be the ones going to heaven with the evil Jews and Christians going to hell.  

Just lovely...  

All of this of coarse can be nicely avoided if people would wake the hell up and get out of their locked mindset of "ME GOOD THEM EVIL!"

You think you and Americans like yourself are the first to think that way?  History is simply repeating itself.

There are intelligent ways of fighting this war on terror and again if you go back a few pages and read my post I state some of them.  That's just the tip of the iceberg.  There are lots of other non-violent, and violent but subtle methods but just like mobs of Iraqis, Americans want BLOOD and want ACTION and not quiet covert operations they will never hear about in the news.   Politicians want VOTES and know that looking tough is the way to get re-elected.  

At any rate you're free to believe what ever you want cuz hey, it's a free country...well for now.  

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

Wow this thread this thread grows auick when your gone for about 14 hours!

Anyways Miles Im not saying we should round up all Muslims, not what I said at all. Though I think you are wqrong on how the American public might feel. This is not so much good vs evil to me, it is more the fact they hate us, and YES they do HATE us.It is not that we want blood, we want to make sure to let everybody know not to start something with us, becuase I promise you we will finish it, uhh except for Nam. So for now it is just self defense.

[bn880 5]

Wow this thread this thread grows auick when your gone for about 14 hours!

Even quicker when you're gone 12 months.

coudn't resist the joke/\taunt.

[bn880 5]

will capture Bin Laden (any news on that lately ?)

Yeah:

"We were pretty close several times"

They will get him as long as it doesn't affect Bush and Co financially too much. You know some Saudis, they might get a little tense if they get him.

Didn't we have a member from SA? Ace Combat, what heppened did he get arrested or something.

Hmm, last I saw AceCombat post: http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....st=1425

[miles teg 1]

Wow this thread this thread grows auick when your gone for about 14 hours!  

Anyways Miles Im not saying we should round up all Muslims, not what I said at all. Though I think you are wqrong on how the American public might feel. This is not so much good vs evil to me, it is more the fact they hate us, and YES they do HATE us.It is not that we want blood, we want to make sure to let everybody know not to start something with us, becuase I promise you we will finish it, uhh except for Nam. So for now it is just self defense.

Again you failed to read any of my posts regarding possible solutions.  We still have NO evidence that Iraq was AN IMINENT THREAT or behind 9/11 so how the hell can our invasion be justified as a form of "defense" as you call it???

Saddam only started shit with us indirectly by invading Kuwait and refusing to leave.  We kicked his ass with the backing of the international communtiy fair and square and we contained him and put him under one of the tightest most brutal sanctions ever placed on any country.  

But I forgot...when you say "They" I'm assumng you are talking about all Muslims?  I can assure you that they do not all "hate us".   If you are indeed refering to Muslims in general , then those "they" you are referring to include 7+ MILLION American Muslims.

Most of them are certainly angry at the US and/or the US government, but they do not all hate us.  Its like conservative Arabs who say, "ALL AMERICANS HATE US AND OUR RELIGION." That's the opinion some of them have of us. Is it true? Hell no. But there is a grain of truth in it that most Americans indeed are terribly fearful of Muslims, and there is a sizable percentage who do indeed hate Muslims as they see Islam as the religion of terrorism. Many American religious leaders have in fact called Islam this publicly to add more fuel to the fires of fear and suspicion in the Middle East concerning American agendas in the Middle East.

What you don't seem to understand is why many Middle Eastern Muslims especially either hate us or are VERY angry at us.  We are percieved as being the aggressors in this war and of suppressing Islam and their rights to establish Islamic governments around the world.   You may not believe so, but good luck trying to convince Muslims around the world that this is not true.  Especially after the evidence of torture of Muslim prisoners by US soldiers in Iraq (and now it seems in US detention centers around the world), they are more convinced the ever that America is a tyrannical nation hell bent on destroying their way of life and their religion and that we are the ultimate hypocrits.  

The fact of the matter is that what we are doing IS NOT WORKING in Iraq. Period.  

Please tell me how we will "finish it" as you say.  You are talking like President Bush when you say such things.  

Tough man Hollywood talk, but with no logic behind how in the hell we are supposed to "finish it".   The only way to do that through force of arms is genocide.  Period.  There is no other way.  

Israel hasn't done this to the Palistinians only because 1. They still have some sane leaders in their country, and 2. They know better then perhaps any nation on Earth what genocide is and how incredibly evil that concept is.  I do not think they wish to become the evil from which they fled from during WWII.    

However on our current path if we continue upon it and use more and greater violence to crush terrorists, I guarantee you that the anger felt amongst moderate Muslims towards the US will outweigh their disgust for Al-Qaeda and more and more will either begin to sympathize with Al-Qaeda, directly support them, fight for them, or simply create their own groups seperate from Al-Qaeda but with a common goal of attacking US military forces around the world.   If it got bad enough and we responded with even greater violence, it is simply human nature that Muslim Americans would not just stand by and let their brother and sister Muslims get slaughtered for standing up against the United States attacking their countries.   That coupled with increases in anti-Islamic sentiment and fear of Muslims amongst average Americans would almost certainly be expressed in hate crimes and possible laws passed to allow increased surveillance or special detention powers for the government to arrest and detain American Muslims especially if a Muslim in this country committed a terrorist act or we had another massive terrorist attack (which will almost certainly happen in the near future).  

If we continue to raise tensions and fears and escalate this war on terror to new levels of violence by reacting to each terrorist attack with even greater violence, then I guarantee you that we will be faced with only the option of genocide as it will be too late to try anything else.  

I feel right now like I'm watching to trains coming at each other and I know that right now they have room to stop and avert a horrific tragedy...but they keep getting closer and closer and neither train is slowing down or willing to switch tracks.  

I see you as being on one of those trains encouraging the train engineer to go faster and faster to scare and force the other train into switching tracks without any concern about what might happen if the other train doesn't switch tracks.

Anyways...again I can only encourage you to go back and read my other posts regarding alternative solutions to fighting this war on terror other then just bombing the crap out of them and invading Islamic countries.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Wow this thread this thread grows auick when your gone for about 14 hours!

Even quicker when you're gone 12 months.  

coudn't resist the joke/\taunt.  

Oh thats mean, it makes me feel unSEXY!

Quote[/b] ]Again you failed to read any of my posts regarding possible solutions. We still have NO evidence that Iraq was AN IMINENT THREAT or behind 9/11 so how the hell can our invasion be justified as a form of "defense" as you call it???

Saddam only started shit with us indirectly by invading Kuwait and refusing to leave. We kicked his ass with the backing of the international communtiy fair and square and we contained him and put him under one of the tightest most brutal sanctions ever placed on any country.

But I forgot...when you say "They" I'm assumng you are talking about all Muslims? I can assure you that they do not all "hate us". If you are indeed refering to Muslims in general , then those "they" you are referring to include 7+ MILLION American Muslims.

Most of them are certainly angry at the US and/or the US government, but they do not all hate us. Its like conservative Arabs who say, "ALL AMERICANS HATE US AND OUR RELIGION." That's the opinion some of them have of us. Is it true? Hell no. But there is a grain of truth in it that most Americans indeed are terribly fearful of Muslims, and there is a sizable percentage who do indeed hate Muslims as they see Islam as the religion of terrorism. Many American religious leaders have in fact called Islam this publicly to add more fuel to the fires of fear and suspicion in the Middle East concerning American agendas in the Middle East.

What you don't seem to understand is why many Middle Eastern Muslims especially either hate us or are VERY angry at us. We are percieved as being the aggressors in this war and of suppressing Islam and their rights to establish Islamic governments around the world. You may not believe so, but good luck trying to convince Muslims around the world that this is not true. Especially after the evidence of torture of Muslim prisoners by US soldiers in Iraq (and now it seems in US detention centers around the world), they are more convinced the ever that America is a tyrannical nation hell bent on destroying their way of life and their religion and that we are the ultimate hypocrits.

The fact of the matter is that what we are doing IS NOT WORKING in Iraq. Period.

Please tell me how we will "finish it" as you say. You are talking like President Bush when you say such things.

Tough man Hollywood talk, but with no logic behind how in the hell we are supposed to "finish it". The only way to do that through force of arms is genocide. Period. There is no other way.

Israel hasn't done this to the Palistinians only because 1. They still have some sane leaders in their country, and 2. They know better then perhaps any nation on Earth what genocide is and how incredibly evil that concept is. I do not think they wish to become the evil from which they fled from during WWII.

However on our current path if we continue upon it and use more and greater violence to crush terrorists, I guarantee you that the anger felt amongst moderate Muslims towards the US will outweigh their disgust for Al-Qaeda and more and more will either begin to sympathize with Al-Qaeda, directly support them, fight for them, or simply create their own groups seperate from Al-Qaeda but with a common goal of attacking US military forces around the world. If it got bad enough and we responded with even greater violence, it is simply human nature that Muslim Americans would not just stand by and let their brother and sister Muslims get slaughtered for standing up against the United States attacking their countries. That coupled with increases in anti-Islamic sentiment and fear of Muslims amongst average Americans would almost certainly be expressed in hate crimes and possible laws passed to allow increased surveillance or special detention powers for the government to arrest and detain American Muslims especially if a Muslim in this country committed a terrorist act or we had another massive terrorist attack (which will almost certainly happen in the near future).

If we continue to raise tensions and fears and escalate this war on terror to new levels of violence by reacting to each terrorist attack with even greater violence, then I guarantee you that we will be faced with only the option of genocide as it will be too late to try anything else.

I feel right now like I'm watching to trains coming at each other and I know that right now they have room to stop and avert a horrific tragedy...but they keep getting closer and closer and neither train is slowing down or willing to switch tracks.

I see you as being on one of those trains encouraging the train engineer to go faster and faster to scare and force the other train into switching tracks without any concern about what might happen if the other train doesn't switch tracks.

Anyways...again I can only encourage you to go back and read my other posts regarding alternative solutions to fighting this war on terror other then just bombing the crap out of them and invading Islamic countries.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

Uhh Teg, I think you need to read my post there buddy. Did I say we need to just start invading Islamic countries? No, when I say "THEY" I do mean the whole Middle East, except for our only friend there, Israel. I honestly can not see how somebody could not see this. It just amazes me! There is a way to "Finish it" in Iraq, but we are going to have to get tough, and don't think Im just talking here, if I need to go to Iraq for my country, then I WILL do it! Sadly I can't yet because Im still a sad sad high school boy. Im not saying blood for blood, Im saying we must do what it takes to stop the attacks(with trying our best not to hurt the innocent) by the terrorist in Iraq, and all around the world. We are not going to win this thing by sitting around an doing nohting, or trhough talking, this is a fight, and if we back down we will loose.

[Frisbee 0]

get tough, and don't think Im just talking here, if I need to go to Iraq for my country, then I WILL do it! Sadly I can't yet because Im still a sad sad high school boy.

Get tough? Get more brutal or what?

Yes, of course! That will lose you even more domestic support, if the majority of the american public likes to think they're the good guys and people around the globe would hate "you" quite a bit more than they already do.

Great idea, really.

Talking in somewhat less generalising tones might suit you, now you're just proving to be a very good posterchild of the american who hates muslims.

Quote[/b] ]to stop the attacks(with trying our best not to hurt the innocent) by the terrorist in Iraq, and all around the world.

And "all" those terrorists in Iraq were an imminent threat again in what way? If anything, a nice aggresive "War on Terror" will only give the terrorist recruiters a nice example of all the things they already don't like from the US.

[theavonlady 2]

If anything, a nice aggresive "War on Terror" will only give the terrorist recruiters a nice example of all the things they already don't like from the US.

Like the things they didn't like back on September 11, 2001?

[theavonlady 2]

I say we get Avon elected to lead Israel.

First order in government is to have 2 A4 Skyahawks fly out and drop nuclear weapons on Palestine.

A Trident missile is then launched from HMS Spartan or something and bye bye Israel. The next 15 minutes is a frenzy of comms between Paris, London, Washington, Beijing, Moscow, Delhi and Islamabad. The main question is, do we destroy the Earth? Well with politicians who have restraint then no. The world lives happily ever after. The End.

Glad to see you've hit bottom with your fiction and sarcasm.

Big hero. Come on over and try to take out an ever-shifting target in Gaza with an assault team without getting killed on the way in.

Your ignorance of the situations involved shows.

Your interest in destroying Israel shows you for the anti-semitic filthy racist that you are.

I dont want to get into a flame war, but i have to say, your own views could be seen by some as "filthy anti arab racist".....it does sometimes strike ME that way, i dont know about anyone else  

Anti-Arab? Yes.

Racist? Please quote me.

[Frisbee 0]

Like the things they didn't like back on September 11, 2001?

Exactly, back then most of those things were still, imho bullshit.

eg. America on a crusade against muslims, etc

It wasn't much like that back then, but now if you go about saying how the whole middle east hates you and you should strike back harder... The terrorist PR guys will have little work left to do, disgruntled people will flock to them no matter what if you go down that road, if it isn't already that way.

This whole invasion is not exactly contributing to the "War on Terror" in general, it has more of a detrimental effect it seems, imho.

[Apollo 0]

Bah it's catch22 all over the middle east.At this moment ,the conflicts within the middle east are ever escelating and there is few to do about that.

Check America's position in Iraq.They can't leave as that would be handing over the country to rebels and terrorists ,yet they can't stay in Iraq neither as that would only create more conflict.Catch22.

America can't stop supporting the Saud family neither.Should they stop supporting the monarchy of Saudi Arabia it could easily fall and mean that the World's most valuable oil supplier could be overrun by terrorists.Then again ,the whole origin of terrorism in Saudi Arabia and beyond (Oamma is Saudi ,just like more than half of the 11/9 bombers) lays within the Dictatorial regime of the Saudi family supported by the US.Again a catch 22

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]Anti-Arab? Yes.

Sorry,AL but I would have expected something a little better from you.A mature person should realise that hating entire nations and tens of millions of people for their government mistakes and personal experiences is as stupid as it is counter-productive for what we hoped would have been the century where we would have shown what we learned from past mistakes.

Second you autmaticly have no right to criticize those expressing their anti-Israelism(they also judge from Israel`s government wrong policies and it doesn`t neceserly mean they are anti-Jew).

Either way I think you are both wrong and continuing with the mentallity of superiority in the other`s face will always reach a regression to the 19-20 centuries.

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]Anti-Arab? Yes.

Sorry,AL but I would have expected something a little better from you.A mature person should realise that hating entire nations and tens of millions of people for their government mistakes and personal experiences is as stupid as it is counter-productive for what we hoped would have been the century where we would have shown what we learned from past mistakes.

Maybe you misunderstood my generalization. Kindly understand it no less than you tolerated Denoir's previous post about sterotyping Americans, to which I did not see any of you protest against its immaturity:

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]More amazing is the fact that people that do not live in the US are explaining how I feel and act.

Although there is some stereotyping in both directions, I'd say that at some point it is justified. Most criticism here is directed at Bush and his administration, and very little at the people who elected him and supported him. Something like 80% of the Americans supported the war. In a country supposedly by the people of the people and for the people, shouldn't the people take at least partial responsibility

Of course it sucks for the 20% that were against it, but that's the nature of majority rule.

You guys ring awfully hollow at times.

Quote[/b] ]Second you autmaticly have no right to criticize those expressing their anti-Israelism(they also judge from Israel`s government wrong policies and it doesn`t neceserly mean they are anti-Jew).

Either way I think you are both wrong and continuing with the mentallity of superiority in the other`s face will always reach a regression to the 19-20 centuries.

Right. Am I allowed to wish those that mesmerize of having an atomic bomb dropped upon me and my family that they and their families heads should be sawed off slowly and recorded for posterity?

I have every right to criticize those people who jest in expresses their wishes for my people's suffering.

[denoir 0]

Actually, I partially agree with Avon; not about the methods she proposes but the fact that the Arabs need to take some responsibility as well. Their goverments and a lot of the people thrive on anti-Israli and anti-American sentiment. IMO it's  for the most part cheap demagoguery and isn't helping anyone.

However, one should keep in mind that it was the US that invaded and occupied Iraq, not vice-versa. That gives the Iraqis and by extension its neighbouring countries more right to bitch about US behaviour than the US has the right to bitch about Arab behaviour.

Something like  80% of the Americans supported invading Iraq and according to the latest polls, something like 80% of the Iraqis don't object against shooting up US troops.

Needless to say, I'm not too crazy about either side. But given that US was the one that started this war, I think the Iraqis stand on firmer moral grounds.

[theavonlady 2]

Needless to say, I'm not too crazy about either side. But given that US was the one that started this war, I think the Iraqis stand on firmer moral grounds.

Then you think the Americans should pack up and leave tomorrow, for starters?

Back in Baghdad (I want it bad!):

An Iraqi boy smiles while looking at a display of Saddam

Hussein dolls in a Baghdad toyshop June 29, 2004. Iraqis used

to dance to his tune, but in Baghdad toy shops a chubby,

gun-toting Saddam Hussein doll now wiggles his hips to

the 'Hippy Hippy Shake.' Toy stores around Baghdad are doing

a quick trade in dancing Saddam dolls -- foot-high battery-

powered puppets of the former president, kitted out in full

insurgent regalia, who swing their hips to cheesy pop music

at the flick of a switch. (Zohra Bensemra/Reuters)

[denoir 0]

Then you think the Americans should pack up and leave tomorrow, for starters?

No. I think the US has a responsibility to fix what it broke. Iraq is nowhere ready to stand on its feet.

Havn't you understood this yet Avon? The world is not black and white. The insurgents may in my opinion fight for a just cause, but that 'just' cause can be very bad for Iraq in practical terms.

I sympathize with their cause - fighting off an occupying force and a collaborating government - but I truly hope that they will fail.

In a perfect world, a just cause would be equal to creating the best results, but it is not that way. In the real world we have to put pragmatism before ideology. It's the only way it can work.

Right now, Iraq stands a better chance of becoming a normal country with the US troops there. Regardless if it's right or wrong from an ideological point of view, it is the pragmatic solution. (Although that can also of course be debated considering the terrible work done so far)

[theavonlady 2]

Then you think the Americans should pack up and leave tomorrow, for starters?

No. I think the US has a responsibility to fix what it broke. Iraq is nowhere ready to stand on its feet.

I agree.

Quote[/b] ]Havn't you understood this yet Avon?

If you're referring to you're opinion, then you've confused me (again) by what you mean by firmer moral ground. How can the US stay if it's morally incorrect, according to you?

edit: nevermind. saw your edit.

If you're referring to my opinion, then the answer is yes.

Quote[/b] ]The world is not black and white.

Yes, I've heard this a 1000 times. That are numerous shades of gray in between, too, some closer to black, some closer to white.

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]If you're referring to you're opinion, then you've confused me (again) by what you mean by firmer moral ground. How can the US stay if it's morally incorrect, according to you?

It`s quite simple.They f*cked up the country so badly creating the once safe Iraq into a terrorist heaven where they are free to rampage the entire place that unfortunatly if they leave tomorrow even though that`s what the Iraqis wish, because of the fact that they disolved the army and were unable to train the Iraqi forces it won`t be able to stand on it`s own.

You are confusing "moraly correct" to making yourself needed.

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]Maybe you misunderstood my generalization. Kindly understand it no less than you tolerated Denoir's previous post about sterotyping Americans, to which I did not see any of you protest against its immaturity

I have a feeling that nobody is actually reading my post.Read the last post on this page

Quote[/b] ]Right. Am I allowed to wish those that mesmerize of having an atomic bomb dropped upon me and my family that they and their families heads should be sawed off slowly and recorded for posterity?

I have every right to criticize those people who jest in expresses their wishes for my people's suffering.

Are they allowed to wish those who came and stold their lands are terrorising every day the Palestinians,pushing them to commit suicide attacks out of desperation destroying the homes of their relatives in retalliation and killing civillians in air raids......

Quote[/b] ]I have every right to criticize those people who jest in expresses their wishes for my people's suffering.

I am trying to tell you for a while that it goes both ways.

Quote[/b] ]Their goverments and a lot of the people thrive on anti-Israli and anti-American sentiment. IMO it's  for the most part cheap demagoguery and isn't helping anyone.

Of course and their attitude doesn`t help either.I think that both sides need to show more understanding to a resolve to this problem.The present is giving us an enourmous oportunity of resolving conflicts not by bloodshed,until one side capitulates in agony but by diplomacy and farsighted visions.