The Iraq thread 3

[theavonlady 2]

That and possibly because the Fallujah people would have something to share with the man that authorised the air attack in their town.

And before he authorized the attack on the town?

[theavonlady 2]

That and possibly because the Fallujah people would have something to share with the man that authorised the air attack in their town.

And before he authorized the attack on the town?

Skip my question. Back to your post.

What you're saying is that Fallujah is very Hostile to the Iraqis. In which case, the question returns: whose report is to be believed? The US and Allawis or General Aboud of the Fallujah Brigade?

[theavonlady 2]

Not related to the above posts but of great importance to Iraq is the issue of the Kurds.

Just found this Kurdo blogspot. Do I detect a storm brewing?

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]Fallujah is very Hostile to the Iraqis.

Such wise words,indeed the citizens of Emirate el-Fallujah,followers of prince Zarqawi are extremly hostile to their neighbouring Iraqis.

Quote[/b] ]What you're saying is that Fallujah is very Hostile to the Iraqis. In which case, the question returns: whose report is to be believed? The US and Allawis or General Aboud of the Fallujah Brigade?

Well of course US military,they`ve showed us countless sustainable edvidence that it was a foreign fighter warehouse as oposed to some hospital and brigade officials who all they have are children,women and elderly bodies as edvidence.

[theavonlady 2]

Well of course US military,they`ve showed us countless sustainable edvidence that it was a foreign fighter warehouse as oposed to some hospital and brigade officials who all they have are children,women and elderly bodies as edvidence.

And where have you seen the evidence of children, women and elderly bodies?

That's why I didn't answer the question.

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

does every building the US bomb contain several Children, Elderly people and women, there seems to be a lack of middle aged men in Iraq.

[denoir 0]

Iraqis deny house was used by Zarqawi

It seems to depend on which Iraqi you ask:

Quote[/b] ]Iraq's Allawi Welcomes U.S. Strike That Killed 22

Sun Jun 20, 2004 06:32 AM ET

By Fadel Badran

FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - Iraq's prime minister on Sunday defended a U.S. air strike that killed 22 people in Falluja, but Iraqi officers in the town said the dead included women and children rather than foreign Muslim militants.

"We know that a house which had been used by terrorists had been hit. We welcome this hit on terrorists anywhere in Iraq," interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi told a news conference.

That's plain idiotic on his side. Though I'm not really surprised. I think they learned their lesson from Chalabi - how quickly one can fall from grace. So of course you'll only have quislings and yes-sayers left when you kick the opposition.

So the current ones loudly love every US move, to ensure their own position. This is of course very short sighted thinking. As surveys have shown the Iraqis are very very sceptical to the US forces and overall presence. By blindly siding with the US in a case like this, especially without waiting for any form of investigation they alienate a big portion of the Iraqi population. They're seen as collaborators and traitors that are more loyal to the occupation force than to their own people.

It's no way of running a government.

[theavonlady 2]

So the current ones loudly love every US move, to ensure their own position. This is of course very short sighted thinking.

But Allawi has in the past been critical of the US. He was not the candidate the US wanted to begin with.

So why is he all of a sudden being so unsympathetic to his own people?

We still have no clear picture of what exactly did or did not get hit in Fallujah.

And if it turns out that the hit was on target, maybe we're just not aware of how happy most Iraqis would be when it comes to crippling the terrorists that have been blowing them up and destroying Iraq's infrastructure and economy.

[denoir 0]

So why is he all of a sudden being so unsympathetic to his own people?

The US didn't want him as a candidate in the first place, so I would guess that he has to prove himself.

Quote[/b] ]We still have no clear picture of what exactly did or did not get hit in Fallujah.

Exactly! And he automatically chooses to believe and support the coallition press release and dismiss what his fellow Iraqis in Fallujah are saying.

Remember during the war how many times cruise missiles were launched in failed 'decapitation' strikes against Saddam into residential areas and only managed to kill a bunch of civilians each time? So it certainly is not an outlandish theory that in this case too they might have missed their target and blown up one or two innocent famillies. Don't you agree that it is within the realm of possibility? And what does Allawi say?

Did he say "Let's wait for the facts"? Nope, he gave it his full support. And do you really think that the Iraqis won't see that?

[theavonlady 2]

So why is he all of a sudden being so unsympathetic to his own people?

The US didn't want him as a candidate in the first place, so I would guess that he has to prove himself.

Click on the pic.

Quote[/b] ]Exactly! And he automatically chooses to believe and support the coallition press release and dismiss what his fellow Iraqis in Fallujah are saying.

Or he knows something about the target that you don't know.

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

Remember during the war how many times cruise missiles were launched in failed 'decapitation' strikes against Saddam into residential areas and only managed to kill a bunch of civilians each time? So it certainly is not an outlandish theory that in this case too they might have missed their target and blown up one or two innocent famillies. Don't you agree that it is within the realm of possibility? And what does Allawi say?

erm IIRC there was only 1 strike at him personally and IIRC it hit the target he was in only hours before.

[denoir 0]

Remember during the war how many times cruise missiles were launched in failed 'decapitation' strikes against Saddam into residential areas and only managed to kill a bunch of civilians each time? So it certainly is not an outlandish theory that in this case too they might have missed their target and blown up one or two innocent famillies. Don't you agree that it is within the realm of possibility? And what does Allawi say?

erm IIRC there was only 1 strike at him personally and IIRC it hit the target he was in only hours before.

Try four or five.

Avon:

Quote[/b] ]Or he knows something about the target that you don't know.

Unlikely as the coallition has been very clear on that they don't know. On the contrary from what you can read between the lines they don't think they've hit him at all. Their story is now that they were hitting a "safehouse" that might have had been "linked to" Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

As opposed to the medical staff in Fallujah who were very clear on who they said the victims were.

[theavonlady 2]

Avon:

Quote[/b] ]Or he knows something about the target that you don't know.

Unlikely as the coallition has been very clear on that they don't know.

The articles state just the opposite:

Quote[/b] ]Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt said in Baghdad the house hit by a "precision" strike was being used by fighters loyal to Zarqawi, accused by Washington of leading a bloody campaign of suicide bombings and of decapitating a U.S. hostage last month.

Quote[/b] ]On the contrary from what you can read between the lines they don't think they've hit him at all. Their story is now that they were hitting a "safehouse" that might have had been "linked to" Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

I don't read that in between the lines. I've understood for most of the time that this news has been out that the target is a building used by Al Queda, with no guarantee that al_Zarqawi himself was inside.

Quote[/b] ]As opposed to the medical staff in Fallujah who were very clear on who they said the victims were.

Where are the medical staff quoted?

[denoir 0]

Where are the medical staff quoted?

[ CNN ]

Quote[/b] ]Among the dead were two children and a woman, and the bodies were charred, hospital officials said. Two wounded women were taken to hospitals in Baghdad and Ramadi.

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]Among the dead were two children and a woman, and the bodies were charred, hospital officials said. Two wounded women were taken to hospitals in Baghdad and Ramadi.

Well, that's not what was being implied on this thread until now.

According to this, 3 out of the 16/18/20/22 casulaties were most likely innocent residents. And what of the rest?

And what of the other quotes from that same CNN article?

Quote[/b] ]The coalition said secondary explosions from illegal weapons and ammunition stockpiles lasted for 20 minutes.

Is this what killed those people? A weapons stash?

Quote[/b] ]A senior coalition official said the structure was believed to house members of al-Zarqawi's network, but al-Zarqawi was not believed to be inside. Coalition officials believe members of his network were among those killed.

Still waiting to be confirmed but the CNN report seems to disqualify the previous reports that only civilians were killed. If so, why were only 3 civilians mentioned.

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

Remember during the war how many times cruise missiles were launched in failed 'decapitation' strikes against Saddam into residential areas and only managed to kill a bunch of civilians each time? So it certainly is not an outlandish theory that in this case too they might have missed their target and blown up one or two innocent famillies. Don't you agree that it is within the realm of possibility? And what does Allawi say?

erm IIRC there was only 1 strike at him personally and IIRC it hit the target he was in only hours before.

Try four or five.

not 4 or 5 :rolleyes:

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]Among the dead were two children and a woman, and the bodies were charred, hospital officials said. Two wounded women were taken to hospitals in Baghdad and Ramadi.

Well, that's not what was being implied on this thread until now.

According to this, 3 out of the 16/18/20/22 casulaties were most likely innocent residents. And what of the rest?

And what of the other quotes from that same CNN article?

Quote[/b] ]The coalition said secondary explosions from illegal weapons and ammunition stockpiles lasted for 20 minutes.

Is this what killed those people? A weapons stash?

Quote[/b] ]A senior coalition official said the structure was believed to house members of al-Zarqawi's network, but al-Zarqawi was not believed to be inside. Coalition officials believe members of his network were among those killed.

Still waiting to be confirmed but the CNN report seems to disqualify the previous reports that only civilians were killed. If so, why were only 3 civilians mentioned.

What are only women and children innocents now?

[theavonlady 2]

What are only women and children innocents now?

Ask CNN.

[denoir 0]

Remember during the war how many times cruise missiles were launched in failed 'decapitation' strikes against Saddam into residential areas and only managed to kill a bunch of civilians each time? So it certainly is not an outlandish theory that in this case too they might have missed their target and blown up one or two innocent famillies. Don't you agree that it is within the realm of possibility? And what does Allawi say?

erm IIRC there was only 1 strike at him personally and IIRC it hit the target he was in only hours before.

Try four or five.

not 4 or 5 :rolleyes:

Yes, you are absolutely right. Most certainly not 4-5. I was waaay off.

There was a total of 50 failed decapitation strikes

Quote[/b] ]Most of the civilian casualties resulting from the air war occurred during a total of 50 U.S. attacks that targeted the Iraqi leadership, including two high-profile attacks against Iraqi President Saddam Hussein himself, one of which killed 18 civilians and destroyed three homes in the Mansur neighborhood of Baghdad. According to the report, each of the attacks missed their target, and Iraqis who spoke to HRW about the attacks it investigated stated repeatedly that they believed the intended targets, including the Mansur attacks on Hussein, were not even present when the strikes took place.

[denoir 0]

What are only women and children innocents now?

Ask CNN.

CNN did not say anything about how many civilians were killed. They did not even say how many women and children were killed. All they said was that the Iraqi doctors in Fallujah claimed that they saw corpses of two children and one woman.

The so called 'secondary explosions' are also very much disputed. The witnesses claim that two missiles were fired. One that partially collapsed two buildings and the other one minutes later when people were dragging injured from the rubbles.

[bucket man 2]

I thought this Zarqawi guy has been dead for a long time? That is if its the same who supposedly only had one leg.

I think US army is trying to get faces to the resistance that people in USA can hate. Little bit same as Osama and Saddam.

[theavonlady 2]

I thought this Zarqawi guy has been dead for a long time?   That is if its the same who supposedly only had one leg.

You're mixing him up with Long John Silver.

"One leg Jim - count 'em!"

[theavonlady 2]

CNN did not say anything about how many civilians were killed. They did not even say how many women and children were killed. All they said was that the Iraqi doctors in Fallujah claimed that they saw corpses of two children and one woman.

The so called 'secondary explosions' are also very much disputed. The witnesses claim that two missiles were fired. One that partially collapsed two buildings and the other one minutes later when people were dragging injured from the rubbles.

Well, we're not arguing then. Other than the assumption that the 3 women and children were innocent civilians, we don't know who any of the other dead are for sure. All the reports are conflicting.

[Balschoiw 0]

Sorry that I missed the homerj decapitation strike.

I had liked to add some freshness about Somalia, Congo, Ethiopia and other african countries.

Did you know that there are multinational intelligence people surfing the public forums on this planet ?

Well, homerj certainly wasn´t one of them

Well, anyway now with all this fresh air in here let´s have an eye on Iraq again:

Iraq could execute Saddam, tribunal director says

Quote[/b] ]LONDON (AP) — Iraq could execute former leader Saddam Hussein after trying him, the director of the country's war crimes tribunal system said Sunday.

Salem Chalabi, who is in charge of setting up a special tribunal to try members of the ousted regime, said that once the Iraqi government gains sovereignty on June 30, it will have the power to end U.S. occupation chief L. Paul Bremer's suspension of the death penalty in Iraq.

"The Iraqi government has to affirmatively take that step to lift the suspension," Chalabi told British Broadcasting Corp. television's Breakfast with Frost program. "If the suspension imposed by Ambassador Bremer is lifted then there is the possibility of the death penalty being imposed" on those convicted of murder or rape.

On a sidenote: The US forces or private guards will still be at Saddam even he´s handed over to Iraqi people. The US has already confirmed that there will be no total handover.

I´ll get back on the part of the civillian contractors later on. Only this for now: The extended pentagon spendings on Iraq go for 1/3 into the pockets of Black water and other civillian mercenary companies. There is an interesting concept behind this. But as I already said, more on that later on.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Bah. Bases belong to us.