War against terror

[theavonlady 2]

Funny that a jewish person would talk about a grand conspiracy involving all people of a certain faith.

To quote the rotten library: With all due respect to everyone involved, you can't throw a rock into a crowd of Muslims without hitting someone whom all the other Muslims consider a heretic." How the hell Al-Qaeda is going to sweep away many many many years of ethnic, religious and national divisions?

Just about every half-arsed gang of lunatics (red brigades, neonazis etc.) have some kind of world-domination plan to put an end all "non-believers." Why is this any different?

The article wasn't written by Jews. It's written by an Arab.

The article wasn't quoting Jews. It's quoting Muslims.

The article didn't appear in a Jewish newspaper. It's in a popular German national newspaper.

Keep denying what they themselves claim. Some day maybe you'll catch on.

Oh, and a caliphate is a figment of my Jewish imagination. We coined the word - don't you know!

Good luck, Europe!

[Panda-PL- 0]

Quote[/b] ]Funny that a jewish person would talk about a grand conspiracy involving all people of a certain faith.

It is indeed funny. I've noticed earlier already that only Jewish professors and authorities are trustworthy experts of Islamism.

And their understanding of most basic terms is obviousely wrong and different from muslim ones. For example: when Qu'ran says about one true religion it doesn't mean muslims, but all monoteistic religion (it is even claimed elsewhere), yet this phrase is often used by Jews to discredit Islam as a religion and prove hat peace is not possible.

The things that terrorers say are PURELY POPULISTIC. You cannot take their words into ANY account nor draw any conclusions based on them, the same as You didn't trust Sharon's declarations (why trusting terrorers?).

[Scorpio 0]

Keep denying what they themselves claim. Some day maybe you'll catch on.

I don't think anybody is denying anything about their intentions.

It's funny...they keep their whereabouts so secret yet their "master plan" isn't so.

By the way...Has Al-Qaeda attacked Israel yet? I'm not sure they have. That's strange.

[theavonlady 2]

@ Aug. 18 2005,21:55)]

Quote[/b] ]Funny that a jewish person would talk about a grand conspiracy involving all people of a certain faith.

It is indeed funny. I've noticed earlier already that only Jewish professors and authorities are trustworthy experts of Islamism.

I smell a bigot.

[Scorpio 0]

@ Aug. 18 2005,21:55)]

Quote[/b] ]Funny that a jewish person would talk about a grand conspiracy involving all people of a certain faith.

It is indeed funny. I've noticed earlier already that only Jewish professors and authorities are trustworthy experts of Islamism.

I smell a bigot.

Erm, no?

Please allow me to remind you using this link about the word "bigot". If you look back at several of Panda's posts I'm sure you would notice his beliefs are not bigotry and I'm sure you would have the intelligence to reform your statement.

What's more, instead of implying he is a bigot (which I'm not sure what that has to do with Panda's statment?) maybe you can contribute more in detail and attempt to disprove him?

[theavonlady 2]

What's more, instead of implying he is a bigot (which I'm not sure what that has to do with Panda's statment?) maybe you can contribute more in detail and attempt to disprove him?

You mean you also know for a fact that only Jewish professors and authorities are trustworthy experts of Islamism?

Well, bully for you!

[Scorpio 0]

You mean you also know for a fact that only Jewish professors and authorities are trustworthy experts of Islamism?

Well, bully for you!

Why am I not surprised that you just dodged the question/request in my post? Way to go, avonlady; you're so predictable.

Please let me make this very clear. I'm not agreeing with anything - just because I challenged your name-calling on Panda doesn't mean I agree with him. You may notice that, especially in this thread, a person may agree with another person on something, but disagree with them on another. There's nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

Why do you call me a bully? I responded in the nicest possible way I could think. Would you like a gift?

[walker 0]

Hi all

As was pointed out terrorism is pin pricks only the truly weak nations need be afraid of it.

For the rest of us we just get on with life. Terrorists are just criminals and one of many threats to your life and statisticly right down there at the bottom of the list of risks.

I think there are people who want us to be afraid the terrrorists for one, but their oposite numbers among the politicians for another add in scare mongerers among the press. Even some people on this forum practice it.

Each have there own childish and obvious motives.

All I can say is we have latched on to your trick bored now. Yawn

Kind Regards Walker

[theavonlady 2]

You mean you also know for a fact that only Jewish professors and authorities are trustworthy experts of Islamism?

Well, bully for you!

Why am I not surprised that you just dodged the question/request in my post? Way to go, avonlady; you're so predictable.  

What? I have to disprove unfounded facts brought up by others? Let them prove their claims! How absurd!

Quote[/b] ]Why do you call me a bully?

Teddy Roosevelt would have done the same, though I'm using it sarcastically

bul-ly [1]  (bool'ee)  n. pl. <-lies> v. <-lied, -ly-ing> adj.,

    interj.

             n.

                 1.  a quarrelsome, overbearing person who

                      badgers and intimidates smaller or

                      weaker people.

                 2.  Archaic. a man hired to do violence.

                 3.  Obsolete.

                      a.  a pimp.

                      b.  a good friend; good fellow.

                      c.  a sweetheart.

             v.t.

                 4.  to intimidate or terrorize.

             v.i.

                 5.  to be loudly arrogant and overbearing.

             adj.

                 6.  Informal. fine; excellent.

             interj.

                 <span style='color:red'>7.  (used to express approval).</span>

            [1530-40; < MD boele lover]

[Scorpio 0]

Quote[/b] ]What? I have to disprove unfounded facts brought up by others? Let them prove their claims! How absurd!

I never said you have to. You don't have to if you don't want to. Sheesh. I only said "why don't you". Maybe I havn't explained myself properly? I only requested that instead of implying Panda is a bigot, that you respond in a more reasonable (?) way. Hell you could have even dismissed it as a crackpot conspiracy theory, that would be fine by me.

Quote[/b] ]Teddy Roosevelt would have done the same, though I'm using it sarcastically

             interj.

                 7.  (used to express approval).

I'm sorry, I wasn't familiar with that expression.

[Panda-PL- 0]

@Avonlady.

I expressed my personal oppinion.

The most critisizing and intolerant articles on Muslims (not ME, entire religion)THAT I FOUND were written by Jews (like university proffesor for instance) and in my oppinion streached facts to absurd in order to prove Islam at its fundaments is non-tollerant to both Christians and Jews. The given "proofs" from scriptures could be quickly discredited by a 10-minute search with quotes from Qu'ran. Why would a university professor make such mistakes?

And anyway why is anyone who doesn't 100% agree with what Jews say their enemy? You sense agression if I critisize the method of using terrorer claims to find out their goals?

Looking trough what some nutshells say on AlJasira is NOT reasource gathering

And You obviously ignored my remark:

-Sharon claims wanting peace - Israeli don't buy it

-Some anonymus guy claims something on AlJasira - its an obvious truth that he is honest.

[EiZei 0]

The article wasn't quoting Jews. It's quoting Muslims.

The article didn't appear in a Jewish newspaper. It's in a popular German national newspaper.

I know. It is you however who keeps posting these articles here.

Quote[/b] ]

Oh, and a caliphate is a figment of my Jewish imagination. We coined the word - don't you know!

And I am also quite damn aware of the history of the word caliphate, however I think the notion that the mess that we call the muslim world would be rallied by a single bearded fundamentalist thousands of kilometres away is just plain fucking ridiclous.

[Bernadotte 0]

do I have to explain that Pakistan isn't really a strong ally in the WOT?

Yes, you do.  Pehaps you think OBL was the architect of the 9/11 attacks.  Actually, it was a guy named Khalid Shaikh Mohammed:

Quote[/b] ]On March 1, 2003, the ISI reported that they had captured him in a raid in Rawalpindi, Pakistan. The raid was variously reported to be all-Pakistani, in the presence of the United States FBI, or a joint raid with the FBI.

@Bernadotte:

Don't assume, it makes you look stupid if you're wrong... like now. Did i post "OBL was the person who thought out 9/11" no, i can even find a hint were i ever come close to it.

you're assumption puzzles me  

I explored a possibility. I did not make an assumption, so no wonder you are puzzled.

So, knowing that Pakistan worked very closely with the US to arrest the architect of the 9/11 attacks, how do you explain your comment about how Pakistan isn't really a strong ally in the WOT?  

[was out of town and couldn't reply sooner]

[chops 111]

About the only thing communism got right was the banning of religion.

If I told everyone that I had an invisable friend who would do things for me if I asked him really nicely, I'd get committed.

Unless, of course, I said his name was God/Allah/Yaweh or whatever.

You're all mad

[Scorpio 0]

[Panda-PL- 0]

[You forgot to mention the crusades!]

And besides.

That's offtopic. Offtopic is bad.

[Bernadotte 0]

About the only thing communism got right was the banning of religion.

Have you ever thought that maybe religion has been used by many to address a fear of the unknown?  Banning the way people deal with fear is about as useful as trying to ban the fear itself - not exactly something that communism got right, methinks.

And in the context of the thread topic, banning forms of spiritual expression as a means of combatting ideologies commonly held by terrorists will be no more effective.

[Panda-PL- 0]

Bernadotte is like allways looking for a gap to sneak in a few offenses.

If I said that someone is a non beliver 'cuz his father was a commie or his mother was an alcoholic and that's his reasons not ot belive then wouldn't it offend the person?

If i said that someone is a non beliver because he knows shit about religion and generally speaking is stupid wouldn't it be an offend?

Note that wheather I am or am not right about whether the person's father was a commie is irrelavent - because I do not know that (same as You cannot tell for how many persons fear is the motivating factor for religin)

So is it OK to say that someone might belive because of fear?

To some nonbelivers nonbeliving itself makes them better then everyone around and it shows. It is their pride and a way to stand out from the crowd. It's cool and treandy to be the enlighted one while everyone around is a moron because of a simple fact that his perception of the world differs from the one and only one rightous one.

I don't neceserely adress You, yet You're starting to speak similar language, like "they belive 'cuz they stupid", "they chickens too scared to know THE TRUTH ", "they belive cause it's usefull", "they belive cuz they are fooled by their leaders"(the best part!. Any of that is implying something not quite nice to the belivers, at the same time putting the nonbeliver above them as the chosen one who got to know THE TRUTH .

So Judge not or You shall be Judged   .

What about the criminals from Nigeria who - being councious of their sins and at the same time deeply beliving in God are scared to go out in the rain so not to be hit by an lightning? They quite do not fit the "weak-o-scared" theory. If religion was just purely usefull then they'd become nonbelivers and feel a lot more comfortable. Why they keep beliving while all religion can offer to one is fear? They'd be much better of without it.

[Gordy 0]

Quote[/b] ]The following letter was sent to DefenseWatch by a regular reader. It was written by a USMC Lt. Col. to a retired USMC Major General as the Marine was departing Afghanistan. It offers an insightful, first-hand account of the brave and unfortunate demise of a U.S. Navy SEAL team wiped out while deep in enemy territory on a clandestine mission sometime around June 28, 2005. The Navy SEAL team disappeared just before a Special Forces helicopter carrying reinforcements to a mountainous area in eastern Kunar province was shot down June 28, killing all 16 Americans on board. It was the deadliest single attack on the U.S. military since the war began in Afghanistan in 2001. No editing effort for either grammar or punctuation was applied for the sake of authenticity- Editor

Hello every one, I am heading home soon. Here is my final update.

FINAL UPDATE

Hello everyone, this is my final update. Let me start by telling you that I am in excellent health and in good spirits. I apologize for not keeping you informed these last few months but our operational tempo was too high and our operational security did not allow me to share with you what missions we were conducting. When I return home I hope to sit down and write about our spring offensive here. However I will share with you that my team in Farah captured Mullah Sultan who was a mid level Taliban leader and a target that we had been searching for several months. He is still being interrogated in Afghanistan but should be making the long journey to GITMO (providing it is still open) very soon. I will be home in a couple of weeks and plan to have a party around Labor Day weekend so please mark you calendars because I would love to see you there. This update will be extremely short but I do want to close it by telling you some insight about the SEAL Team and Night Stalker tragedy that occurred a few weeks ago. By now you have heard a lot about what happen but I really want share how significant that event was to the soldiers on the ground here and to explain in my opinion why I feel it is important that all Americans continue the fight for freedom.

Before I explain what happen to the SEALs, I want to thank you all for your prayers, emails, care packages, yard work and all the things that you did for me in my family while I have been deployed. The support from my friends and neighbors has been incredible and humbling. Your support has helped me to endure this incredibly long year and to concentrate on what I was doing here with minimum worrying about Pam and "A". Thank you all from the bottom of my heart.

The Naval Special Forces (NAVSOF) team that was involved in the operation in Kunar Province had been traveling throughout Afghanistan conducting apprehend or kill missions against Al Qaeda and Taliban operatives. They had worked with us for two weeks, three weeks before the events on June 28. While working with our teams, they attempted to take out a high value Taliban target and missed him by hours. This operation was conducted in the Zerico Valley which has been one of our hot spots. We provided the outer ring security for the SEALs with Afghan National Army soldiers and ETTs while the SEALs conducted the compound assault. We missed the big target but did get some mid level guys so the mission was not a total bust. The NAVSOF guys are the best of the best, not cocky simply professionals in every way, we call them operators.

SEALS operate throughout Afghanistan using their unique skills to intredict Taliban operations and movement. They own the night. USN Photo

On June 28 a four man SEAL reconnaissance team was trying to locate Taliban in the dense mountainous and forested area of the Kunar Province of Afghanistan. They were trying to identify routes that the bad guys use to enter from Pakistan . The targeting information would be used to direct U. S. and Afghan forces who would interdict and destroy those enemy forces. The SEALs were spotted and engaged by a large force of Taliban some where between 25-50 insurgents. The Taliban who are still alive and fighting in Afghanistan are very good combatants. Unlike Iraq Arabs, they are not suicidal and they use good small unit tactics. The bad guys used Rocket Propel Grenades (RPGs), mortars and small arms to attack the SEALs. The team set up a 360 degree defense and called in Hornet Nest (troops in contact) back to their operational base. The command and control headquarters for U. S. Forces in Afghanistan moved a Predator unmanned drone over the battle location. The SEALs were located by the predator by their locator beacon and the inferred camera system of the drone. The headquarters could see that the TEAM was encircled by bad guys and that the enemy was too close to the SEALs to use Air force close air support. A weather front was rapidly coming into the area and the SEAL Commander a Lieutenant Commander ask permission to launch his quick reaction force to go rescue his men. The commander of TF 160th (the Night Stalkers) agreed to fly the mission. The Night Stalkers are the Army's Special Operations air wing. They specialize in high risk insertion and extraction at night. It was not night fall yet and the command hesitated because sending the special operation birds into the area in the light was very risky. The Generals look at the screen that was giving a live feed of the fire fight, they saw that the SEALs were surrounded, they did not see a way for them to escape, a weather front was coming, it was dusk but not dark yet and time for the trapped men was running out.

Leadership requires having the guts to make a decision, based on analysis and forethought. You must totally recognize the risk and be ready to accept the results. The general in charge made the right call, he had to try to rescue the operators, we as American soldiers cannot leave our people on the battlefield, every Airman, Marine, Sailor, Coast Guardsmen and Soldier has to know that when you go down range and things go wrong keep fighting and help will come.

The decision was made, two CH 47 Pave Hawk helicopters headed toward the SEALs. The CH 47 is a large aircraft but it is fast for a helicopter, able to fly at 170 knots. The aircraft entered the mountains flying at 50 feet above the ground with 16 men aboard. All four SEALs were still alive and fighting an unbelievable battle. As the lead bird approached the landing zone they started to slow down and the air speed dropped under 100 Knots, another group of Taliban, not engaged in the initial firefight but in the area saw the aircraft and open fire with small arms and RPG's. The lead aircraft was hit by a RPG but the aviator kept the bird in the air. They were in the mountains; therefore there was no clear place to land. He flew for about a mile and saw a ledge that he could try to put the bird down on. The CH 47 landed on the ledge hard, they almost made it. The hard landing and the palpitations of the rotors were too much for the small landing zone and weak ground. It was their time, the aircraft rolled off of the ledge on to its side and down the mountain into the valley below. 8 SEALs and 8 aviators from TF 160th were gone.

The other aircraft could not land in the hot landing zone and were called back. There was not enough time to try to secure the area because the weather front moved in and night fall fell. The SEALs kept fighting and used the cover of darkness to crawl out of the initial enemy lines. The SEALs were engaged again and had a running gun battle for over two hours. The SEAL that survived was knocked unconscious by a mortar round and found that he was alone when he woke up. Two of his team members were dead close by, and the last team member was missing. They had dropped all none essential gear during their escape therefore all contact with them was lost. Eventually the surviving SEAL ran into a villager who took him to his house. That shepherd, at great risk to himself, protected the SEAL until he could be moved six hours away to the nearest U. S. forces that the villager was aware of.

The loss of the operators really broke the hearts of all us deployed down range. Losing men of that quality and dedication is bad enough one at a time, but to lose so many, so fast was hard to comprehend. But after the shock had worn off and we got the true story of what happen we took solace. You see every one did what they supposed to on that day, the SEAL recon team kept fighting, the SEAL commander went to get his shipmates, the Night Stalkers volunteered to fly in to harms way to rescue their brothers in arms and the generals had the guts to make the right decision. That is all you can ask for out here, it is what it is and everything else is god's will. I have had the pleasure of serving with some unbelievable men and woman in the last year. Folks from 18 to 59 (yes 59). It has been an honor. I really appreciated America before I came to Afghanistan but this experience has truly opened my eyes to how bless my life has been. Folks I know this is a clich?, but freedom is not free. Embrace it, respect it and don't ever stop fighting for it. These people over here are far from free, but we have given them a taste of it. We need to ensure that we don't give up the fight because to do so would be to dishonor all the men and woman who have died to ensure we remain free. Freedom is contagious, with it, out goes tyranny. The evil people that attack America on September 11th were not free because if they were, they would not have cared what another's persons beliefs are they would simply accept them for what they are and moved on. Please continue to pray for all the soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq, don't stop praying for me because I am still here, and your prayers have been working so keep it up, I don't to mess up a good thing. I will be home soon, god bless you all, god bless America and thanks again, goodbye Cheers, George

[Placebo 28]

SEAL letter thread merged into here.

[Gordy 0]

oh, yep, thanks.

[EiZei 0]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/24/terror/main793210.shtml

Quote[/b] ]

Afghan Abuse Punishments Knocked

"These punishments are a joke … A person's life has been taken. They must be punished properly."

Ahmad Shah Midad

Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission

(AP) Afghanistan's government Wednesday said it was disappointed with the "unexpectedly lenient" sentences U.S. military courts have handed down to American soldiers convicted of abusing two Afghan detainees who later died.

A spokesman for President Hamid Karzai said U.S. military prosecutors should appeal the cases and push for harsher penalties.

One soldier has been sentenced to two months in prison, another to three months. A third was demoted and given a letter of reprimand and a fine. A fourth was given a reduction in rank and pay.

So guess now that stealing food from a supermarket is now an equal crime to torture murdering innocent people.

In case you forgot, Dilawar was a farmer and a taxi driver weighting imposing 59 kilograms. He was hit over 100 times, kicked and all this while he was CHAINED TO A WALL AND HOODED. Bet his 3-year-old daughter is real happy now that the perps got couple of months in low-security slammer and fines in the 200-300 USD range.

[chops 111]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/24/terror/main793210.shtml

Quote[/b] ]

Afghan Abuse Punishments Knocked

"These punishments are a joke … A person's life has been taken. They must be punished properly."

Ahmad Shah Midad

Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission

(AP) Afghanistan's government Wednesday said it was disappointed with the "unexpectedly lenient" sentences U.S. military courts have handed down to American soldiers convicted of abusing two Afghan detainees who later died.

A spokesman for President Hamid Karzai said U.S. military prosecutors should appeal the cases and push for harsher penalties.

One soldier has been sentenced to two months in prison, another to three months. A third was demoted and given a letter of reprimand and a fine. A fourth was given a reduction in rank and pay.

So guess now that stealing food from a supermarket is now an equal crime to torture murdering innocent people.

In case you forgot, Dilawar was a farmer and a taxi driver weighting imposing 59 kilograms. He was hit over 100 times, kicked and all this while he was CHAINED TO A WALL AND HOODED. Bet his 3-year-old daughter is real happy now that the perps got couple of months in low-security slammer and fines in the 200-300 USD range.

Ah for fuck sake!

America, ask yourself why the world hates you!

Even though I don't...

[Bordoy 0]

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1195170,00.html

Quote[/b] ]HUNGER STRIKERS 'WILL DIE'

Guantanamo Bay detainees on their fifth week of hunger strike say they are prepared to die.

Recently declassified statements quote prisoners saying they were determined to starve themselves in protest over living conditions and alleged maltreatment.

According to The Guardian newspaper the statements, that were written on August 11, have just been given to the British human rights lawyer Clive Stafford Smith.

In one statement, reported in the paper, Binyam Mohammed, a former London schoolboy, said: "I do not plan to stop until I either die or we are respected.

"People will definitely die."

Mr Stafford Smith told The Guardian that many men had been starving themselves for more than four weeks and the situation was becoming "desperate".

However, the US military says the men will not be allowed to die and claimed there were 89 prisoners involved - not 200 as quoted in reports - and 13 are being fed through tubes.

It is the second hunger strike at the facility since late June.

The first ended after authorities promised better access to books, bottled drinking water and other terms.

These guys (the terrorists) would take you, they would chop you up into little pieces, they would eat your ball bag, they wuld scramble your ball bag up with some lamb and eat it.

[Major Gripe 0]

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1195170,00.html

Quote[/b] ]HUNGER STRIKERS 'WILL DIE'

blah blah...

These guys (the terrorists) would take you, they would chop you up into little pieces, they would eat your ball bag, they wuld scramble your ball bag up with some lamb and eat it.

And? Your point is? I think its safe to assume that most of the people their are some pretty nasty people but that doesn't mean that we, as in the west, should debase ourselves to their level. It is possible to be hard on people without losing the moral high ground in so far as the treatment of captives goes.