Sweden decides

[Longinius 1]

My opinion stands:

This isnt a decision the people should make, thats why we have elected officials. And, we are all ready in the EU. The EMU shouldnt even be an option at that point. It should be a requirement.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Well well. Im actually a bit sad at this result, i just sort of expected that despite the polls the end result would be a yes. Maybe its Denoirs Euro enthusiasm thats coloured my perception of Swedish opinion.

Its a setback for the Euro (of which i am in favour- in principle) and my own hopes of seeing how easily a country outside the eurozone could be incorporated in.

...oh well  only another decade or so to wait.  

I imagine this will make British entry in the next 15 years that little bit less likely...

[Bluesman 0]

First effects: The value of the Swedish crown has fallen 10% on the international exchange markets within minutes after the result was evident.

Predictions: Stockholms fondbörs (Swedish stockmarket) won't react kindly to this when it opens tomorrow.

Well, stuff like that allways happens just after elections (just like stock markets swing one way or another). The long term effect will reflect the status of Swedish economy.

And what the finance minister says now isn't necessarily absolute. If the general opinion of EU is increased it will reflect the speed.

The big question is how to make those stubborn Norrlänningar change their mind about EU? Maybe some sort of postive actions from EU:s side?

BM

[GoOB 0]

Thank you, as I stated. We allready elected people that are supposed to make these seemingly tough decisions for us. That is why we have govermental elections, so that the politicians decides. Not so that they can lay the burden on the people. Lets face it, no one can argue if the goverment the people chose decides on a matter.

[denoir 0]

Well, stuff like that allways happens just after elections (just like stock markets swing one way or another). The long term effect will reflect the status of Swedish economy.

And what the finance minister says now isn't necessarily absolute. If the general opinion of EU is increased it will reflect the speed.

Yeah, I know, but please let me be bitter for at least some time now.

Quote[/b] ]The big question is how to make those stubborn Norrlänningar change their mind about EU? Maybe some sort of postive actions from EU:s side?

Alf Svensson was probably right when he said that this is the result of a larger failure to bring Europe to the heart of the Swedish people. Europe is "them" and not "us".

[EiZei 0]

/me counts his euro notes and grins.

[Bluesman 0]

Couldn't help but smile a bit on KG Bergström(political commentator) and his comment.

"This is the largest defeat ever for the Swedish political and economial establishment, Swedes have since Gustav Wasa been loyal to their leadership".

So is Gustav Wasa turning in his grave now?

BM

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Longinius- I dont think it is wise to force a currency (and especially an economic union) on people without their consent so even though people may give a negative result, if the euro is successful (and Sweden perhaps less so without it) then people will come round to the idea in time.

Quote[/b] ]"we are all ready in the EU. The EMU shouldnt even be an option at that point. It should be a  requirement."

I agree but the question of timing is important. If in fact an EU country is successful and doing well economically then what is the urgent need for monetary union- to make travel easier (and increase sense of european identity)?

Sure but thats not reason enough to jeopardise a solid economy, especially if there are real economic difficulties in quickly integrating countries in and out of the Euro zone.

[denoir 0]

It's nothing that dramatic. People are just being conservative. The politicians have been very busy convincing everybody what a splendid job they are doing and people are thinking:

"If it's good, why change it?"

Yes, the problem today is that the European economies are desynched. Some are doing well while others are having problems. And the argument against the Euro is that if each country has an individual interest rate then it can be adjusted to fit the specific needs of the individual countries. That is however circular logic. The Euro has been introduced to synchronize the European economies. And that won't change over night. It's a long term project.

The funny, sad part is that Sweden is already a member of the Emu and has ratified and implemented 2/3 of the three step program. Our interest rate is already very much tied to the ECB. The only difference now is that there won't be a Swedish representative in the Euro-group that makes the actual decisions. So, we're stuck with the Euro but without any chance of real influence.

[Longinius 1]

I don't think the reason Sweden voted NO has anything to do with the actual EMU. I think its because the YES side had a piss-poor campaign and failed to focus on the key issues. And this is exactly why the people shouldnt have voted. This should have been decided by knowledgable economical and political experts.

Just look at how the debate has played out. Silly school yard debates, backed up with insanely boring and off-key advertisement campaigns. Add to that all the "imbalanced" aspects of the campaign (YES side getting more funding than NO and so on) and you can bet your arse that the average Svensson wont give a dang about EMU. They will see a failure of the YES side and vote NO.

My experience tells me that the average Joe doesnt vote from knowledge or out of facts, they vote out of habit or out of emotion. Its a wonder that politicians havent caught on to this yet.

[granQ 293]

just wanted drop a line to our friends in europe. I feel sad that we don't join you. There was simply not enough people with my point of view.

[Longinius 1]

Uhm, we have all ready joined them. We are not dropping out of the EU because of this. Unless I missed something.

[denoir 0]

It's overall a strange situation. If you look at the yes coalition, it was supported by the mainstream politicians, the industry and the media. Over 80% of the members of parliament were pro-euro. Given that and the usual mindset of the Swedish people, there should have been a clear yes. The aftermath of this will be interesting.

As for the EU, this is bad news, but not that bad. The EU is now expanding to 25 countries. So Sweden becomes much less relevant to the outcome of the project.

The export industry is going to take the worst blow of this, that's for sure. A common currency simplifies trade and if a company is presented with two equal offers - one that requires currency conversions and one that doesn't - they'll go with the one that doesn't.

[EiZei 0]

Weird, according to fresh poll I just read 56% of the Danish population supports EMU. Didn't the majority there oppose it before?

[denoir 0]

Yes, just a year ago they voted "no". Which shows another point - the idiocy of letting a trend that changes so often to make long-term decisions.

[Gollum1 0]

You´re either in the EU or you´re not, no-voters!

[Bordoy 0]

Well done Sweden. good voting you people.

[NurEinMensch 0]

Since you seem to be almost the only one who welcomes the outcome of this vote, can you maybe explaine why exactly you think it's a good think if Sweden doen't become part of the EMU?

[Bluesman 0]

Since you seem to be almost the only one who welcomes the outcome of this vote, can you maybe explaine why exactly you think it's a good think if Sweden doen't become part of the EMU?

Probably because he's British.

Altering a classic line; "No EMU thanks we are British".

The Swedish equivalent should read "No to everything, we are Swedish"

Though he isn't all that alone. I read that 70% in UK would vote no to Euro at this moment. They have good company from a majority of Swedes atm.

BM

[bn880 5]

Well yeah but look at the British pound compared to the Korona.

[bn880 5]

This sucks and only reinforces my idea that moving from Sweden wouldn't be such an idea. There is a new strong unified Europe emerging. My country has unfortunatly not understood this but instead of joining this exciting progress we'll be standing on the side. That doesn't resonate to well with me. I can easily see myself moving to live and work in the continental Europe.

This is what I can tell you after being dis-satisfied many times before: There is no nation on the face of this planet at the moment where everything has been set straight or where the majority is even remotely right. You can come to Canada you will see, you can come to the states and really see, go see Germany or Austria and try to work as a foreigner, you get some nice looks... I thought Sweden would be pretty amazing from what I've been hearing all along, yes in many ways Sweden is above the rest, but it's not perfect right. Moving will not hurt you IMO, you are young and may benefit from international experience (well it's going to be inter state or such soon), if it doesn't work out you can head back to Swe. and continue from there. Don't ever get rid of your Swedish citizenship either.

But I know I know, you're only saying this because you're bitter. Still you might move to find a job... (not that you don't have one now)

[denoir 0]

Well yeah but look at the British pound compared to the Korona.

It's "krona" and it's doing better than the pound.

Quote[/b] ]I thought Sweden would be pretty amazing from what I've been hearing all along, yes in many ways Sweden is above the rest, but it's not perfect right.

Yeah, the myth of Sweden is above the rest but the reality ain't. It was 20 years ago but today the "Swedish model" is dead and buried. Sweden sustained this social model through high taxes and each time the economy turned downwards we borrowed money. In the early 90's the interest on those loans caught up with us creating the largest economical crisis in Swedish history. Today that economy has been sanetized but at the cost of the Swedish model. We still have ridiculously high taxes while our social wellfare system is no good. We don't have free healthcare (as for instance Germany does), the schools are recieving far less money etc. Sure, we are still lightyears ahead of USA, but relative other EU countries our social system is nothing special. And we're number nine out of twelve in the EU ranked by GDP/capita.

So while the state budget is doing well, it is at a tremendous cost to the society.

Unfortunately many Swedes have not yet realised this and think that we're still unique and special. It is this delusion that keeps us at an arms lenght of the rest of the EU. Sooner or later the reality will catch up and it ain't going to be pretty.

Quote[/b] ]But I know I know, you're only saying this because you're bitter.

No, I'll probably be moving to France or Spain for a couple of years in two or three years. This is not related to the Euro but more to the fact that engineers are undrpaid in Sweden and that our taxes are far to high for my liking.

[Longinius 1]

Move to Malmo, work in Copenhagen... Works for me

[Jinef 2]

This sucks and only reinforces my idea that moving from Sweden wouldn't be such an idea. There is a new strong unified Europe emerging. My country has unfortunatly not understood this but instead of joining this exciting progress we'll be standing on the side. That doesn't resonate to well with me. I can easily see myself moving to live and work in the continental Europe.

I say, I say! What all this about old chap eh? You jonny foreigner Swedish chaps can't make such an awful racket about 'moving to the continent' what what!

Dear old bean, you already are on the continent if you would excuse me to correct you.

It's only the good old jolly chaps back in England who can refer to all you jonny foreigners as 'the continent', as we are seperate from you commoners you see?

Oh my, tea is being served, you must excuse me good fellow.

[Badgerboy 0]

This sucks and only reinforces my idea that moving from Sweden wouldn't be such an idea. There is a new strong unified Europe emerging. My country has unfortunatly not understood this but instead of joining this exciting progress we'll be standing on the side. That doesn't resonate to well with me. I can easily see myself moving to live and work in the continental Europe.

I say, I say! What all this about old chap eh? You jonny foreigner Swedish chaps can't make such an awful racket about 'moving to the continent' what what!

Dear old bean, you already are on the continent if you would excuse me to correct you.

It's only the good old jolly chaps back in England who can refer to all you jonny foreigners as 'the continent', as we are seperate from you commoners you see?

Oh my, tea is being served, you must excuse me good fellow.

Rather!

Is one going to have crumpets with that? Jeeves!