Unofficial expansions

[andersgrim 0]

I am just curious, in what way is it legal, and in what way is it illegal to sell your work as a modification/expansion for Operation Flashpoint?

I see there are unofficial expansions in the sotres like Planet of War and Behind the Lines, but I thought it was illegal for other companies to distribute such expansions..

[maruk 80]

EULA of Oxygen Light and Visitor clearly says it's not possible to use it for anything commercial so any such attempt would mean breach of it and such product wouldn't be legal.

In other cases it can be more complicated but I really doubt many people would be interested in an expansions without new addons and landscape so it's not a real case any more.

We invested many years of our work in development of Operation Flashpoint and the technology behinds it and we and Codemasters, that publishes the game and also invested a lot into its development, marketing and distribution, will always do all necessary actions to protect our interests.

[benu 1]

POW is from CWC times, i doubt they used oxygen or visitor. Iirc bel was old too. Both are kind of mission collections, a campaign here, a rts type of "mod" there.

Iirc the whole "is it legal" issue has been discussed when those came out long ago. There was a third one... just checked at my vendor, it was "between the lines", not "behind the lines", and that was the old campaign and mission collection. The third (the newer one) is called "the last enemy."

So i guess the question is: what's the matter with commercial addons/missions/campaigns that did NOT use visitor or oxxygen?

[Placebo 29]

There is a BBC TV show from the early 90's called Between the Lines, I reported the addon to the BBC in the hopes they'd do something but they never even bothered replying to me, and me a license payer too

[edc 0]

I think at one time there was a campaign for OFP for sale, it was a long time ago, probably pre-resistance. But a campaign wouldn't use o2 or visitor.

[waffendennis 0]

But if i made my own modeling program/ island program and make then the islands/ addons with it may i sell it then? because then i havent used 02 neither Visitor so whats up with that then Maruk??

[aLoneWolf 0]

Check your O*F manual (last page) for complete agreement - only some interesting parts follow below:

//---

...

The Codemasters Software Company Limited software licence agreement

...

YOU SHALL NOT:

* Copy the Program

* Sell, rent, lease, licence, distribute or otherwise transfer or make avaiable to any other person the Program, in the whole or in part, or use the Program or any part thereof in any commercial context, including but not limited in a  service bureau, "cyber-cafe", computer gaming center or any other commercial location in which multiple users may access the Program or, for the avoidance of doubt, for making any modification, add-ons or derivative works for commercial exploitation. Codemasters may offer a separate Site Licence Agreement to permit you to make the Program available  for commercial use; see the contact information below (Codemasters address).

* Reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, decompile, disassemble, or create derivative works of the Program, in whole or in part.

...

//---

[InqWiper 0]

Quote[/b] ]* Sell, rent, lease, licence, distribute or otherwise transfer or make avaiable to any other person the Program, in the whole or in part

Shit, someone sent me his Flashpoint.cfg. I guess he has to move now

[aLoneWolf 0]

someone sent me his Flashpoint.cfg

   

Hmmm, if he is not making money for his "special" Flashpoint.cfg, he is safe ...

   

[BraTTy 0]

To clarify from what I am reading and have read.

Don't lose hope, sounds that if you have a good enough mod, with Codemasters site liscense, you may be able to sell it

Still not clear as to whether you can use O2 and Visitor to make it

[Scorpio 0]

So we can get permission from BIS and/or CM to sell an expansion pack? If so, I believe there should be a ?% cut of profits to BIS/CM?

[BraTTy 0]

Surely that is what determines if you get a site liscense

[andersgrim 0]

This helped clear it all up. I do still wonder about this "ultimate addon collection" a while ago for support of a fansite, but they were probably allowed by this codemasters licence.

I am not planning to sell anything , I never fully understood how those people could sell their unofficial Expansions while lots of good modifications will have to work for free.. I have never tried any of the expansions, and i really thought they did contain new addons.

[joltan 0]

I think 'between enemy lines' and 'POW' both had to go to court to be able to release their stuff. Both won, so it's obviously possible to make an extension as long as no original BIS material is included (i.e. only missions and your own scripts'n stuff).

[Koolkid101 0]

Shall we boycott it?

[andersgrim 0]

the expansions?

I dont think they've sold a lot..mabye a few hunderd..or a few thousand..

Actually i do not think they deserve anything more than that. It's BIS' game afterall.

[SpeedyDonkey 0]

hmpf i brought that Behinde the enemy or whatever it's called. I haven't installed it yet though Cos' i realized it was bs. Anyway i didn't waste too much (it was only like 150 kronor ... but still...)

[Apollo 0]

Would it be allowed to ,as a big groups say 200 fan's ,to hire a group of programmers to make addon's for them ,at a regular cost devided under these 200 fan's?And that these finished addon's would only be available to these 200 investor's?

Made me think ,with the vast amount of people here the forum community's themself could use their big fan base for investment into addon's or complete mod's to their demand's ,even have acces to all source code i guess ,and then try to sell the product trough the site licence. If you would find 500 members here who would be agreeable to for ex. invest 10$ a month ,then you would have some financial basis to hire a small set of programmer's part time.Eventually ,later on the comunity could profit of the possible profit made later on by that product as shareholders.It would be the first steps toward's a game industry owned by actual gamer's.

[Tigershark_BAS 0]

Would it be allowed to ,as a big groups say 200 fan's ,to hire a group of programmers to make addon's for them ,at a regular cost devided under these 200 fan's?And that these finished addon's would only be available to these 200 investor's?

Made me think ,with the vast amount of people here the forum community's themself could use their big fan base for investment into addon's or complete mod's to their demand's ,even have acces to all source code i guess ,and then try to sell the product trough the site licence. If you would find 500 members here who would be agreeable to for ex. invest 10$ a month ,then you would have some financial basis to hire a small set of programmer's part time.Eventually ,later on the comunity could profit of the possible profit made later on by that product as shareholders.It would be the first steps toward's a game industry owned by actual gamer's.

Technically...I believe this is possible....as you would be paying for a service (ie. the programmers time) and not the end product. This is quite a loophole....but then again...I'm no lawyer....perhaps someone can point out the flaw in this argument.

Equally...I always thought the legal loophole for providing a CD of addons etc. was for fans to make a donation to your team/mod/site.

As a reward for the donation you would send them a FREE!! CD with addons and missions you had created. Again...waiting for some lawyer type guy to shoot me down on that one as well.

[Schoeler 0]

Would it be allowed to ,as a big groups say 200 fan's ,to hire a group of programmers to make addon's for them ,at a regular cost devided under these 200 fan's?And that these finished addon's would only be available to these 200 investor's?

Made me think ,with the vast amount of people here the forum community's themself could use their big fan base for investment into addon's or complete mod's to their demand's ,even have acces to all source code i guess ,and then try to sell the product trough the site licence. If you would find 500 members here who would be agreeable to for ex. invest 10$ a month ,then you would have some financial basis to hire a small set of programmer's part time.Eventually ,later on the comunity could profit of the possible profit made later on by that product as shareholders.It would be the first steps toward's a game industry owned by actual gamer's.

Technically...I believe this is possible....as you would be paying for a service (ie. the programmers time) and not the end product. This is quite a loophole....but then again...I'm no lawyer....perhaps someone can point out the flaw in this argument.

Equally...I always thought the legal loophole for providing a CD of addons etc. was for fans to make a donation to your team/mod/site.

As a reward for the donation you would send them a FREE!! CD with addons and missions you had created. Again...waiting for some lawyer type guy to shoot me down on that one as well.

Sorry Tiger, I haven't gotten into law school yet, still a year away.  I'll ask my sister, she graduated from the University of Arizona Law school two years ago.

Oh, P.S. The whole idea of trying to profit off of modding the game stinks in my opinion. I know the mod teams work long and hard to bring their work to the community, but I appreciate it more and respect it more when its a labor of love driven by a passion for the game and the community. I've been a member of this community and of OFPEC back when they were fledgling. I remember OFPEC collecting donations just to stay alive. I even remember when one of their founding members went psycho and destroyed the forum, but I'll be damned if I can remember his name. Oh yeah, cumboy! I think that Tigershark, Snypir and wolfsbane (if he's still around) are probably groaning at that mention. Anyway, I think we get better work when its done out of passion and not for profit. The modwork is so much better than the original BIS stuff in a lot of cases, so there is the evidence for my argument. Think of when modding first started and retexturing things was a miracle. Evisc, I distinctly remember your huey and how excited I was to see something like it (God bless the ugly thing). Wow, we've come a long way since then.

[Apollo 0]

Yet if you could hire talented addon maker's of OFP ,you will be able to get more productivety from them.Especially if you are able to employ addon maker's full time.It's no offence to all those great free addon's and mod being made ,but technicly ,with a strong enough financial base a mod team that could earn a living from their job would be able to make and complete addon's much faster than most other addon makers.Also ,the work would get a more proffesional character ,as timeframe's would have to be set ,dateline's to be achieved.A certain degree of quality would be required ,and work would be more structurized.

Afcourse ,this all depend's on what amount of money there could be gather'd in any community for a specific project.I don't doubt that the net worth of all people visiting these forum's is quite an amount ,yet people genneraly dont invest or like to pay trough the net.However some mod topic's are popular to most people ,obviously WWII mod's most.A good profile WWII mod could possibly earn quite a good amount trough community investment ,If it would would produce a mod as a sort of E-company with internet invester's with the idea to comercialize the product later on trough a lincense by BIS.

that is ,if all this hasn't got legal issue's ,wich i think it may very well have.

[Tigershark_BAS 0]

Yet if you could hire talented addon maker's of OFP ,you will be able to get more productivety from them.Especially if you are able to employ addon maker's full time.It's no offence to all those great free addon's and mod being made ,but technicly ,with a strong enough financial base a mod team that could earn a living from their job would be able to make and complete addon's much faster than most other addon makers.Also ,the work would get a more proffesional character ,as timeframe's would have to be set ,dateline's to be achieved.A certain degree of quality would be required ,and work would be more structurized.

Afcourse ,this all depend's on what amount of money there could be gather'd in any community for a specific project.I don't doubt that the net worth of all people visiting these forum's is quite an amount ,yet people genneraly dont invest or like to pay trough the net.However some mod topic's are popular to most people ,obviously WWII mod's most.A good profile WWII mod could possibly earn quite a good amount trough community investment ,If it would would produce a mod as a sort of E-company with internet invester's with the idea to comercialize the product later on trough a lincense by BIS.

that is ,if all this hasn't got legal issue's ,wich i think it may very well have.

The one flaw in this otherwise good plan...is something you've already mentioned. As demonstrated in the thread I started in the Addons Discussion forum, a large portion of the community are stingy and are to used to get something for nothing.

I really don't think you could get enough to employ people full time. Maybe college students....but you'd never get enough to hire people full time.

I like your thinking though :-)

[theavonlady 2]

As demonstrated in the thread I started in the Addons Discussion forum, a large portion of the community are stingy and are to used to get something for nothing.

People paid good money for CWC, RH and then Resistance. What right do you have to insult 66% of the respondents to your poll?

Most addons and mods for most PC games are free. That's what's become acceptable and that's what people expect as a norm.

As other have pointed out, charging for addons will lead to a community of "haves", while the "have-nots" will be left out or will drop out. This will not contribute to a game's popularity, which is certainly a good and rational reason for any software company to legally require such unofficial game modifications to be distributed at no charge.

[Guest]

As demonstrated in the thread I started in the Addons Discussion forum, a large portion of the community are stingy and are to used to get something for nothing.

People paid good money for CWC, RH and then Resistance. What right do you have to insult 66% of the respondents to your poll?

Most addons and mods for most PC games are free. That's what's become acceptable and that's what people expect as a norm.

I can't believe it. I totally agree with Avon!      

Don't take this the wrong way TS, but read your own signature. It mentions something about not expecting any reward other than people enjoying your addons...does it not? To then turn around and call people "stingy" is....

[theavonlady 2]

I can't believe it. I totally agree with Avon!

Well, just don't make it a habit.