Uk farmer who shot burglar freed

[denoir 0]

@ Aug. 02 2003,23:02)]Seriously though, I'd imagine there are a few reasons behind it. One is that your countries are much smaller and the populations are more centralized. Therefore, getting the infrastructure in place is much simpler and cheaper. I'd imagine that Sweden is the most wired country in the world in Internet terms- a little less than 9 million people in the entire country, and over 6 million Internet users. Whoa. Not to mention, with that kind of built-in user base, expanding into new technologies is hardly a risk for ISPs.

I think that we're second in the world after Finland.

Ok, for the figures I promised. It was significantly higher than I expected, especialy for youth criminals. For the age group 18-25 the percent of repeat offenders are as high as 58%. From that category they get caught 2-4 times before they stop.

For ages 26+ the average percent of repeat offenders is about 38%. In that category the get caught one more time before they stop.

One thing that should be added is that by international standards, prison sentences are very short in Sweden. We don't have a real "life in prison" punishment but one that maxes out at about 20 years in prison. That is however usually reserved for cases as espionage and high treason, and they usually get out after half the time.

A bank robbery gives, depending on the violence used etc, about 2-5 years. A very brutal murder could result in 10 years.

One thing that is punished above average is economic crime. Basically cheating on your taxes in a large scale is worse than beating up somebody on the street.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Well, if I do become a criminal, I'm definitely heading to Sweden.

[denoir 0]

@ Aug. 02 2003,23:24)]Well, if I do become a criminal, I'm definitely heading to Sweden.  

Perhaps, but there is another side of the story. We have something like perhaps 2-3 bank robberies every year. I can't recall one instance where they didn't get caught. While the Swedish police are not very good at catching small time thieves and burglars they manage to solve most violent crimes. Once you point a gun at somebody else or even worse, shoot somebody, they'll be coming down so hard and fast on you that you'll never know what hit you.

And, I might add that the police is responsible for the largest percent of gunshot inflicted deaths/wounds in Sweden.

So overall it's a signal to the criminals that if they beahave civilized when they commit their crime then they will be treated fairly, if not they'll wish that they never had been born.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

That's fine with me- I'm in it for the free housing and conjugal visits

[denoir 0]

Hehe.

I don't know if the Swedish approach is right or not, but (must be a hidden Christian trait ) I am convinced that people can be changed. Humans are very adaptive beings. The brain is an amazing organ and can learn to cope with just about any situation.

I don't know if we have the means now, but I'm sure that through the right treatement that people can be rehabilitated. It's such a waste to lock up a perfectly good human being that could be used for constructive things. Also, I'm much more of a fan of crime prevention rather than the punishment of criminals after the fact. Punishment by locking somebody up is an extremely crude tool. I think that a person can be made to understand the errors of his ways without locking them up.

A large part of the punishment today is about revenge, and it's a bit pointless. The crime is already done. Torturing the criminal won't undo what he did.

[InqWiper 0]

Quote[/b] ]A large part of the punishment today is about revenge, and it's a bit pointless. The crime is already done. Torturing the criminal won't undo what he did.

I totally agree with this.

It seems too many people want to inprison people to punnish them and make them suffer. The point of prison should be to change the person. If it can be done without making the person suffer thats just better. If there was a way to be 100% sure that a person cannot change I think putting them to sleep would be good.

One problem with prison is that people learn new things while in there. How to easier get away with stuff and how to make bombs or whatever. I think it would be better if you could just torture them in a mild way or something and release them after a few weeks. If they come back the punnishment gets worse.

If the criminal gets to feel real pain I think he will be remembering the experience and he will be afraid to commit crimes because next time it will hurt even more. This way the memory will be fresh when they are out in the society and they probably wont start commiting crimes again right away. This way maybe they realize they dont have to commit crimes and that its better not to.

I think that in prison you regret what you did at first but after like 5 years you dont think like that any more and its too hard to get back into society since its hard to get jobs when you have been in jail + you might have learned new stuff you want to try.

One problem with this kind of punnishment is that you have to make sure you dont overdo it or underdo it, there has to be real professionals dealing with this. I dunno if this is a better way or not, its just an idea, I think it might work.

[Harnu 0]

Quote[/b] ]It seems too many people want to inprison people to punnish them and make them suffer.

And in the very next paragraph:

Quote[/b] ]I think it would be better if you could just torture them in a mild way or something and release them after a few weeks

[theavonlady 2]

A large part of the punishment today is about revenge

What about prevention by others and recurrence by past offenders?

[FSPilot 0]

I'd think that most crimes are comitted in the heat of the moment.  Sure, a lot are pre-planned, but most are things people do when they're drunkened by anger, lust, greed, or of course alcohol.  So punishment isn't that great a deterrent.  I agree that it's mainly for revenge which, ironically enough, is a motive in some crimes.

[theavonlady 2]

So punishment isn't that great a deterrent.

I don't see the connection. I can think of several events in my life where I did things on the spur of the moment and the subsequent punishement met out to me was enough to make me think in the future when similar circumstances arise.

The last time this happened was last year, when I parked my car outside of a friend's house and ran upstairs for 1 minute, without putting money in the meter.

Well, one minute turned to 20 and a coffee and 2 Shekel parking turned to a 70 Shekel fine. Two things compounded the punishment:

1. I could have parked for free in my friends building but it was "only for a minute" so........................

2. The bawling out I got from Mister Avon when I came home.

I am a firm believer in Pavlov's dog.

I will not be a repeat offender.

[Leveler 0]

Shooting burglars Is not the way to protect your property; there are too many "what if" is the situation. Allowing the use of violent force (guns) is not appropriate either because they can be used or misused The best way to my opinion would be non-lethal gadgets like pepper spray etc.

[Winters 1]

Why gun ?

Buy a dog.

[Renagade 0]

Shooting burglars Is not the way to protect your property; there are too many "what if" is the situation. Allowing the use of violent force (guns) is not appropriate either because they can be used or misused    The best way to my opinion would be non-lethal gadgets like pepper spray etc.

In the UK u can`t get pepper spays or stunguns and if ur caught w ith one its more or less the same if the police got u with a gun

[theavonlady 2]

Shooting burglars Is not the way to protect your property; there are too many "what if" is the situation. Allowing the use of violent force (guns) is not appropriate either because they can be used or misused    The best way to my opinion would be non-lethal gadgets like pepper spray etc.

In the UK u can`t get pepper spays or stunguns and if  ur caught w ith one its more or less the same  if the police got  u with a  gun  

There's always one of hundreds of Home Alone Kevin's methods.

[denoir 0]

A large part of the punishment today is about revenge

What about prevention by others and recurrence by past offenders?

The other view on it is, true, to lock up people to keep others safe from them. The basis for my argument was however that people could change. That after some form of rehabilitation and reintegration program they won't fall back to a life of crime.

There are of course a small number of pathological criminals, who would have to go through extensive psychological treatment. But they are an exception.

I think to a large part the problem of repeat criminals is that they consider jail time to be a part of standard occupational hazards. So just locking them up is not enough. I think an approach on a much more individual level is required to get them to understand that they are destroying their own life. Also, one must be able to present them a possible way out - to help them to get a new job, to move to another city etc Anything to break the circle.

[GoOB 0]

A large part of the punishment today is about revenge

What about prevention by others and recurrence by past offenders?

The other view on it is, true, to lock up people to keep others safe from them. The basis for my argument was however that people could change. That after some form of rehabilitation and reintegration program they won't fall back to a life of crime.

There are of course a small number of pathological criminals, who would have to go through extensive psychological treatment. But they are an exception.

I think to a large part the problem of repeat criminals is that they consider jail time to be a part of standard occupational hazards. So just locking them up is not enough. I think an approach on a much more individual level is required to get them to understand that they are destroying their own life. Also, one must be able to present them a possible way out - to help them to get a new job, to move to another city etc Anything to break the circle.

I largely agree with you on this issue my good sir. Unless the criminal is a psycotic merciless killer rehabilitation is the way to go. But many times rehabilitaded people get relapses and fall back in to a life of crime after a couple of years. But then it is of course time for the scociety to come in and check up on this person every two years or so to make sure he or she isn't falling back in to the same orbit again. And also rehabilitation (unless it is for a sick person rather than your average run of the mill bankrobber) is cheaper than say twelve years of inprisonment. But if the criminal falls back into life of crime after a rehabilitation process with check ups every two years I belive they should be sent to prison.

Our legal system has pro's and cons as I see it, and it doesn't work as good as it could if it had more resources to carry these things out. If there was a police officer that could go to the guy who stole the other guys bike and take it back to it's rightfull owner all would be good. But unfortunatley sometimes the system doesn't have time for the "petty" crimes like bike thefts or other similar things and that is when people take the law in to their own hands sometimes. Maybe we should have some kind of "Civilian police" that can take care of these "petty" crimes by listening to the people that have had their things stolen, and if they have a clue as to who stole it the Civilian police goes to pay this someone a visit and ask questions et cetera. And if the bike is identical to the one stolen the Civilian police gives the perpetrator a fine and brings the bike to the police station so that the rightful owner can pick it up again. This ofcourse would require good samaritans that aren't afraid to sacrifice a "little" bit of spare time to help the oridnary citizen with his problems.

(Note the bike thing is just an example, I never owned a bike nor got anything of mine stolen)

[Shashman 0]

(Note the bike thing is just an example, I never owned a bike nor got anything of mine stolen)

I did, and 2 Swatches and (at the time) 500 BF all on separate occasions in broad daylight on relatively busy streets.

The perpetrators were all of the same ethnicity  Anyone from Belgium and particularly Brussels will know who I am talking about  

[Hame 0]

I feel i should state my opinion. I am a burglar, it is my way of life and i think you people just don't understand my culture, how dare you make judgements about one of the oldest professions (2nd only to prostitution). I carry out the vital role of redistribution of wealth. The goverment should also increase the benefits for convicted burgalars, we have families too!!

[ran 0]

I feel i should state my opinion. I am a burglar, it is my way of life and i think you people just don't understand my culture, how dare you make judgements about one of the oldest professions (2nd only to prostitution). I carry out the vital role of redistribution of wealth. The goverment should also increase the benefits for convicted burgalars, we have families too!!

hmm , crime is no culture

if it's your way of life , get a job

wealths don't need to be redistributed , once you got some goods , they belong to you

and if anybody not welcomed crosses the door , his face will meet 2x40mm flashball rubber rounds

burglars have no right to claim anything

[Shashman 0]

I feel i should state my opinion. I am a burglar, it is my way of life and i think you people just don't understand my culture, how dare you make judgements about one of the oldest professions (2nd only to prostitution). I carry out the vital role of redistribution of wealth. The goverment should also increase the benefits for convicted burgalars, we have families too!!

hmm , crime is no culture

if it's your way of life , get a job

wealths don't need to be redistributed , once you got some goods , they belong to you

and if anybody not welcomed crosses the door , his face will meet 2x40mm flashball rubber rounds

burglars have no right to claim anything

Oooh...Flashballs...Now THAT'S gotta hoit!

I saw a documentary once where they go around with the police in Paris on TF1 and there was a call from a mental asylum.One of the patients was thrashing a broken glass around at the staff.He wasn't thrashing much around after he tasted Flashball juice

[Renagade 0]

I feel i should state my opinion. I am a burglar, it is my way of life and i think you people just don't understand my culture, how dare you make judgements about one of the oldest professions (2nd only to prostitution). I carry out the vital role of redistribution of wealth. The goverment should also increase the benefits for convicted burgalars, we have families too!!

hmm , crime is no culture

if it's your way of life , get a job

wealths don't need to be redistributed , once you got some goods , they belong to you

and if anybody not welcomed crosses the door , his face will meet 2x40mm flashball rubber rounds

burglars have no right to claim anything

what if theres no jobs? and i disagree on the culture bit too ran .

[ran 0]

I feel i should state my opinion. I am a burglar, it is my way of life and i think you people just don't understand my culture, how dare you make judgements about one of the oldest professions (2nd only to prostitution). I carry out the vital role of redistribution of wealth. The goverment should also increase the benefits for convicted burgalars, we have families too!!

hmm , crime is no culture

if it's your way of life , get a job

wealths don't need to be redistributed , once you got some goods , they belong to you

and if anybody not welcomed crosses the door , his face will meet 2x40mm flashball rubber rounds

burglars have no right to claim anything

what if theres no jobs? and i disagree on the culture  bit too ran .

if there's no job , just suicide and leave us in peace goddamnit

[Shashman 0]

just suicide and leave us in peace goddamnit

Evolution

[ran 0]

Oooh...Flashballs...Now THAT'S gotta hoit!

I saw a documentary once where they go around with the police in Paris on TF1 and there was a call from a mental asylum.One of the patients was thrashing a broken glass around at the staff.He wasn't thrashing much around after he tasted Flashball juice  

flashball is such a nifty piece of hardware .. hmmmm , i love the basic 40mm rubbel ball , but i also like the  ammo which contains about 10 smaller rubber balls

we also have rounds with balls containing colored liquid , and on demand , we can have those with smell , that way if we fire at somebody , police dogs when trained for that can hunt the people who have been "splashed"

-edit- : capsaicine rounds are nice too

[Renagade 0]

I feel i should state my opinion. I am a burglar, it is my way of life and i think you people just don't understand my culture, how dare you make judgements about one of the oldest professions (2nd only to prostitution). I carry out the vital role of redistribution of wealth. The goverment should also increase the benefits for convicted burgalars, we have families too!!

hmm , crime is no culture

if it's your way of life , get a job

wealths don't need to be redistributed , once you got some goods , they belong to you

and if anybody not welcomed crosses the door , his face will meet 2x40mm flashball rubber rounds

burglars have no right to claim anything

what if theres no jobs? and i disagree on the culture  bit too ran .

if there's no job , just suicide and leave us in peace goddamnit

Which ssort of of poves deniors point on society and crime.

Anyway ran just advertise urself as a drug dealer then show them the "way" of suicide