The Iraq Thread 2

[ralphwiggum 6]

well, first of all, IIRC, the NBC's version is based on media reports and it was made a few months ago with only a few weeks to make it. it's not uncommon for a movie to be made in short time(like 8 weeks), and tv shows a lot less, but in this case i gotta admit that NBC is stretching a bit more.

[EiZei 0]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3234543.stm

Quote[/b] ]

US helicopter shot down in Iraq

An American military helicopter carrying at least 32 people has been shot down in Iraq.

The US Army says there are at least 20 casualties, but the extent of their injuries is not known.

The aircraft was one of two twin-rotored Chinook helicopters flying from a US military base to Baghdad International Airport.

[Acecombat 0]

Now the question is how'd the heli pilot managed to get himself HIT??

[theavonlady 2]

AP Update:

Quote[/b] ]U.S. Says 13 Killed in Iraq Chopper Crash

2 minutes ago

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The U.S. military command said Sunday that 13 soldiers were killed and more than 20 wounded when their U.S. Chinook helicopter was shot down near Fallujah.

[Tamme 0]

Now the question is how'd the heli pilot managed to get himself HIT??  

What's so odd about a chinook getting hit?

[theavonlady 2]

Now the question is how'd the heli pilot managed to get himself HIT??  

What's so odd about a chinook getting hit?

Maybe some of us have been playing OFP too long.

[Acecombat 0]

Now the question is how'd the heli pilot managed to get himself HIT??  

What's so odd about a chinook getting hit?

Maybe some of us have been playing OFP too long.

Yeah

Tamme how often do we se Chinooks falling from the sky? I dont think Iraqis have got AA or SAM with such potential as to bring a heli down.

From the news i am hearing is that americans are being very lax in security they have even moved back the airport security perimeter from 5000 m to 2000 m more danger for aircrafts to be hit and i also read that they have taken the Baghdad airports Mcdonalds hostage

[Tamme 0]

Now the question is how'd the heli pilot managed to get himself HIT??  

What's so odd about a chinook getting hit?

Maybe some of us have been playing OFP too long.

Yeah  

Tamme how often do we se Chinooks falling from the sky? I dont think Iraqis have got AA or SAM with such potential as to bring a heli down.

From the news i am hearing is that americans are being very lax in security they have even moved back the airport security perimeter from 5000 m to 2000 m more danger for aircrafts to be hit and i also read that they have taken the Baghdad airports Mcdonalds hostage  

Ok, I get it.

And that McDonalds isn't a hostage. The americans just took back what's theirs. McDonalds' are like little american embassies.

[theavonlady 2]

McDonalds' are like little american embassies.

I can just see the headlines:

North Koreans who sought sanctuary in Beijing McDonalds branch tossed out on their buns."

[theavonlady 2]

U.S. soldiers carry a stretcher to the scene after a U.S. Chinook helicopter, right, believed to be carrying dozens of soldiers to leaves abroad was struck by a missile and crashed west of Baghdad, near Fallujah, Sunday, Nov. 2, 2003, killing 13 soldiers and wounding more than 20 others, the U.S. command and witnesses reported.

[Acecombat 0]

Now the question is how'd the heli pilot managed to get himself HIT??  

What's so odd about a chinook getting hit?

Maybe some of us have been playing OFP too long.

Yeah  

Tamme how often do we se Chinooks falling from the sky? I dont think Iraqis have got AA or SAM with such potential as to bring a heli down.

From the news i am hearing is that americans are being very lax in security they have even moved back the airport security perimeter from 5000 m to 2000 m more danger for aircrafts to be hit and i also read that they have taken the Baghdad airports Mcdonalds hostage  

Ok, I get it.

And that McDonalds isn't a hostage. The americans just took back what's theirs. McDonalds' are like little american embassies.

Yeah tell that to the guy who owned the franchise for it there

This description was pasted by Mr Robert Fisk btw from The Independent he seems to not like americans very much

BTW how low was that chopper flying why didnt they all take their chutes and go ? I simply dont udnerstand when chopper pilots go down with their helos?

[cam0flage 0]

Now the question is how'd the heli pilot managed to get himself HIT??  

What's so odd about a chinook getting hit?

Maybe some of us have been playing OFP too long.

Yeah  

Tamme how often do we se Chinooks falling from the sky? I dont think Iraqis have got AA or SAM with such potential as to bring a heli down.

From the news i am hearing is that americans are being very lax in security they have even moved back the airport security perimeter from 5000 m to 2000 m more danger for aircrafts to be hit and i also read that they have taken the Baghdad airports Mcdonalds hostage  

I was watching BBC World earlier today, they said that there are still several hundred shoulder-launched AA missiles missing from the Iraqi army depots.

I don't know what type of missiles the Iraqis have, but I could think that they have Soviet-manufactured SA-7 or SA-14, which are more than capable to take a Chinook down.

[Acecombat 0]

Ok according to the news this is the worst day for casualties in Iraq for tthe Yanks. I wonder how many more dead soldiers will they see before they finally get the message to leave the country.

[theavonlady 2]

I wonder how many more dead soldiers will they see before they finally get the message to leave the country.

Let's suppose the US said they've had enough and left. Then what?

[theavonlady 2]

I wonder how many more dead soldiers will they see before they finally get the message to leave the country.

Let's suppose the US said they've had enough and left. Then what?

In fact, all of Iraq's neighbors would now like the US to stay:

Iraqi Neighbors to Denounce Terror Groups.

Quote[/b] ]DAMASCUS, Syria - Arab, Iranian and Turkish foreign ministers denounced terrorist groups operating in Iraq (news - web sites) and urged U.S.-led forces to restore security and stability there, according to a draft communique obtained Sunday on the final day of talks on the war's regional impact.

[Badgerboy 0]

Now the question is how'd the heli pilot managed to get himself HIT??  

What's so odd about a chinook getting hit?

Maybe some of us have been playing OFP too long.

Yeah  

Tamme how often do we se Chinooks falling from the sky? I dont think Iraqis have got AA or SAM with such potential as to bring a heli down.

From the news i am hearing is that americans are being very lax in security they have even moved back the airport security perimeter from 5000 m to 2000 m more danger for aircrafts to be hit and i also read that they have taken the Baghdad airports Mcdonalds hostage  

Ok, I get it.

And that McDonalds isn't a hostage. The americans just took back what's theirs. McDonalds' are like little american embassies.

Yeah tell that to the guy who owned the franchise for it there  

This description was pasted by Mr Robert Fisk btw from The Independent he seems to not like americans very much  

BTW how low was that chopper flying why didnt they all take their chutes and go ? I simply dont udnerstand when chopper pilots go down with their helos?  

Contary to what Flashpoint depicts, chopper pilots don't carry chutes. A helicopters safety lies with its ability to operate at low altitude. Jumping out of a chopper would simply result in smashing into the ground before your chute opened. Factor in unstrapping yourself, moving to an available exit, jumping clear and deploying your chute, you would hit the ground before you got out of the aircraft.

The only helicopter you would stand a chance of exiting before it hit the ground in an emrgency is the KA50/52 Hokum. This has a zero/zero ejection seat, which after blowing the rotors off, fire the pilot, and the WSO to safety. In all other helicopters, your along for the ride.

[theavonlady 2]

Update: Chinook death toll upped to 15.

[denoir 0]

In fact, all of Iraq's neighbors would now like the US to stay:

Iraqi Neighbors to Denounce Terror Groups.

Have you been drinking?  

They've repeatedly demanded that the US force gets replaced by an international force. For cryng out loud, they had a big conference just last week with the theme of how to get the Americans out of Iraq and out of the region. They do however realize that there has to be some form of stabilizing presence in Iraq - and that having the Americans is better than having nothing.

They denounce the terror groups that attack international humanitarian organizations - not the guerrillas that attack US troops.

Quote[/b] ]Update: Chinook death toll upped to 15.

I don't see the big deal about this news. Here's one more: Rumsfeld: Downing of Chinook is National Tragedy. I didn't see so much focus at the 15 Iraqis that got killed in Baghdad on Friday - most of them civilians.

And this number isn't very dramatic either. It's just a week's worth of casualties.

[theavonlady 2]

In fact, all of Iraq's neighbors would now like the US to stay:

Iraqi Neighbors to Denounce Terror Groups.

Have you been drinking?  

I've had my green tea today, as usual.

Next time, quote me in full. The start of the article says they want US forces to resture security there.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Update: Chinook death toll upped to 15.

I don't see the big deal about this news.

Mainly it's the number of casualties in a single event that made it news.

Furthermore, myself being a US citizen certainly affects my feeling for this tragedy.

Had they been Swedish troops, you may have felt similarly.

Quote[/b] ]I didn't see so much focus at the 15 Iraqis that got killed in Baghdad on Friday - most of them civilians.

Indeed sad. The Iraqis are suffering a lot because of the attacks. I haven't been following this thread thoroughly recently but I'm sure someone's mentioned some recent articles on the ongoing and new difficulties in daily life in Iraq because of the lack of security.

Quote[/b] ]And this number isn't very dramatic either. It's just a week's worth of casualties.

I think one death is tragic, let alone a week's worth in a single day.

I see your electricity has been restored.

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]Furthermore, myself being a US citizen certainly affects my feeling for this tragedy.

How can you be a US citizen ?

You live in israel right ? You are a Israeli ? or am i mistaken bigtime here

Quote[/b] ]Mainly it's the number of casualties in a single event that made it news.

You know what if you take in to account the whole war (event) the deaths of Iraqis are in to thousands ...... which was enough for US to wage a war on 2 countries ... need i say more ?

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]Furthermore, myself being a US citizen certainly affects my feeling for this tragedy.

How can you be a US citizen ?  

You live in israel right ? You are a Israeli ? or am i mistaken bigtime here  

I was born in the US and moved to Israel a very long time ago.

So you're only mistaken littletime.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Mainly it's the number of casualties in a single event that made it news.

You know what if you take in to account the whole war (event) the deaths of Iraqis are in to thousands ...... which was enough for US to wage a war on 2 countries ... need i say more ?

Yes, you do.

We could go back to the old argument of how many Iraqis died of the worst kind of torture under Saddam's rule over the decades and the wars that he declared.

Statistically and comparitively it makes the number of Iraqis killed in this war look trivial.

I am indeed not trying to trivialize neither the deaths of Iraqis, nor of US troops. I only responded to explain why today's news was indeed news.

I have no problems with anyone posting other news about the tragedies occuring in Iraq.

Amazing that this even has to be discussed.

[Acecombat 0]

OK so that doesnt makes you a native US'ian

As for that oh-so-he-did-that-worse-then-us argument PLEASE .....

Whatever saddam did with his people was their internal matter not a matter for ANYONE to poke their nose in to otherwise i could say the same that many americans are dying under Bushs rule in Iraq.

I could also say that the US govt and its ****ed policy's brought its nation 9/11 itself.

I could also say .....

I'll just leave it to there for now.

[theavonlady 2]

OK so that doesnt makes you a native US'ian  

Yes it does.

Class, today's English lesson will be the word "native":

Quote[/b] ]na-tive (nay'tiv) adj.

1. being the place or environment in which a

person was born or a thing came into

being: one's native land.

2. belonging to a person by birth or to a

thing by nature; inherent: native ability.

3. belonging to or originating in a certain

place; local; indigenous: native dress.

4. born in a particular place: a native

Chicagoan.

Quote[/b] ]As for that oh-so-he-did-that-worse-then-us argument PLEASE .....

But I'm not trying to argue. That's my point.

Quote[/b] ]I'll just leave it to there for now.

Which is where I wanted to leave it in the 1st place.

[Acecombat 0]

No what i meant by that was that you werent a native american like if i were born in Russia i wouldnt be called a russian since my parents didnt belong to that country neither did i , just born there ...

[joltan 0]

No what i meant by that was that you werent a native american like if i were born in Russia i wouldnt be called a russian since my parents didnt belong to that country neither did i , just born there ...

You are aware of the differences between one's religion and the nationality?

1. Jew != Israeli (which is also the reason why critizising the israelian governement isn't antisemitic, even when this is sometimes used to shut up critics)

2. Born in the US (and possibly grown up there) = US citizen and US nationality. Avon never claimed to be a 'native american' in the sense of belonging to one of the indigeneous tribes that lived there before the colonization

3. You can have more than one nationality (through marriage, immigration, parents from differenet homecountries, etc.)

4. You can live in countries that you don't have the citizenship to, too.

(going from hard to easy mode here )

=> Avon can easily be a US citizen, call it her 'homecountry', etc. while at the same time living in Israel and most likely having the israelian citizenship, too.