The Iraq Thread 2

[SgtBarnes 0]

US 'offers UN greater Iraq role'

Get your cap in hand and pucker those lips Georgie! I expect you`ll be kissing a lot of Ruski-Gallic butt soon.

[-TU--33ker 0]

Unclassified info I received from a member of our HUMINT section.

[....]

I hope you are joking. That's an article from DEBKA, a conspiracy theorist right wing Israelli news magazine.

Yeah that reminds me of the HUMINTEL that CIA did recieve from their agents in Sudan in the early 90ies. It said that Sudan has planned a terrorist attack on US facilities in Sudan. this information was complete bull shit! and noone really wanted a proof for these informations! The USA asked the Sudan to get rid of all the mujahedeen who faught in Afghanistan against the Soviets and were living in the Islamistic state of Sudan now. One of those people was Osama Bin Laden! The Sudan wanted to cooperate, but said that it would be better to keep them under control in the Sudan. the CIA didn't listen and the Sudan had to follow their commands. Bin Laden went to Afghanistan and became even more powerfull there, where the CIA didn't have enough agents to keep an eye on him. The result was 9/11...

HUMINTEL... my ass...

[bn880 5]

Quote[/b] ]This week, Al Qaeda came out with a claim of responsibility for the huge truck bombing at UN Baghdad headquarters on August 19, in which 23 people lost their lives including senior UN representative in Iraq Sergio Vieira de Mello and some 150 were injured.

Oh really? They did? (maybe I'm out of the loop on news with this)

One general thing I want to get peoples opinion on: In the media we constantly hear this "The Bathist religious party is a minority group responsible for opressing and killing the members of Iraqs Shite Muslim majority for decades" or something like that

when refering to the Jewish-Palestinian conflict you never hear "The Jewish religious minority in Israel has been responsible for opressing the Palestinian majority for over a decade"

Is there come sort of clear cut destinction here, or is this just being chicken shit after what Hitler pulled off and having anti semitism thrown in your face? I admint I don't have all the facts to say it's correct or incorrect, but that's how it appears.

[Longinius 1]

The Palestinians arent oppressed, and Israel would never do anything wrong. They ARE Gods chosen people after all...

[EiZei 0]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0314/p02s01-woiq.html

Quote[/b] ]

A New York Times/CBS poll this week shows that 45 percent of Americans believe Mr. Hussein was "personally involved" in Sept. 11, about the same figure as a month ago.

How the hell this is possible?

[Longinius 1]

Good PR work on behalf of TBA?

[hellfish6 7]

Because my country is filled with lots and lots of really stupid people. They believe what they want to believe, not what is real. If the news media tells them that there's a connection, most people won't make an effort to find out for themselves.

And the worst thing is that the media is fueled by ratings - and you don't get good ratings unless you tell the people what they want to hear. Which sucks.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Good PR work on behalf of TBA?

definitely. when you look at Dubyah, don't you just love him?

seriously. some people really have no clue. when there was a blackout a few weeks ago(the infamous one) some lady told me. "That seems like terrorist work."

[Jacko 0]

Quote[/b] ]from the March 14, 2003 edition

The article is from before the war

I really would like too see that poll for post war,

and i can't wait for the resolution and the reaction of france and germany.

[USSoldier11B 0]

Quote[/b] ]I hope you are joking. That's an article from DEBKA, a conspiracy theorist right wing Israelli news magazine.

Like most things that come out of you mouth, that's a opinion. The Israelis have some of the best human intelligence capablities in the world. I think even if we did everything right (i.e. the socialist supercillious European way) here in America you would still be a critic.

Quote[/b] ]You supported the war, didn't you 11B? Do you still think it was worth it?

Edit: Honest questions, not trying to poke you with a stick to see a reaction.

Not exactly, I predicted the war as many people might remember. I support taking Saddam out of power, I was skeptical however, of the reasons we were told why we went to war. I do agree though with the TBA that it takes somewhat of a drastic rationale to convince anti-progress types in the UN General assembly. Over all as human beings I think we are becoming sissies. People get squamish over something even slightly pre-emptive in nature.(Even though technically the Hussein regime was trying very hard to violate imposed sanctions pushing the envelope to see how much they could get away with, which for 12 years the UN wanted to "continue to monitor and assess". In the long run I think it will be beneficial for the world to have characters like Hussein out of power. Do I think it was worth it, well, yes I do. Although I think there were more pressing issues in the world.

[Bernadotte 0]

Unclassified info I received from a member of our HUMINT section.

[....]

I hope you are joking. That's an article from DEBKA, a conspiracy theorist right wing Israelli news magazine.

Like most things that come out of you mouth, that's a opinion. The Israelis have some of the best human intelligence capablities in the world. I think even if we did everything right (i.e. the socialist supercillious European way) here in America you would still be a critic.

supercilious adj.  with an air of superiority, haughty and scornful.

Sure am glad that you're not like that.

So which is it now?  Did your HUMINT section receive the article from the Israeli newsmagazine or did the magazine get the story from your HUMINT section?

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]I hope you are joking. That's an article from DEBKA, a conspiracy theorist right wing Israelli news magazine.

Like most things that come out of you mouth, that's a opinion. The Israelis have some of the best human intelligence capablities in the world. I think even if we did everything right (i.e. the socialist supercillious European way) here in America you would still be a critic.

Whoa man, take it easy. DEBKA is not Israeli intelligence. It's a newspaper that likes to come with spectacular and very questionable claims. Don't take my word for it, check their archives.

Do you remember the Russian iraqwar.ru reporting? DEBKA is their counterpart with just as questionable sources and reporting. They're worth a read but they should certainly not be taken at face value as 90% of it is pure fiction. Refering to them as a reliable source of intelligence is almost as using the Onion for that purpose. And while believing single-source intelligence is always in the end a question of opinion, you can judge a source by its previous track record. And DEBKA certainly does not have a good track record of truthful reporting.

[AKM 0]

As has already been mentioned, most news services are full of sh*t. And if you every try to source something, try hitting a few differnt sites, especially if you use the 'net. Anyone can put anything on the internet. Just look at Aryan Nations. I went off and downloaded some of their material, just because I was bored. Guess what. Bored no more. I can't believe there are people who believe that sh*t! But, I'm getting off-topic.

Simply put, the current operations in Iraq are too concerned with PR. Its like sending Osama a phone call. "Yes, uhh... Osama, we're going to bomb your cave in something like 20 minutes, and we want to kill you, but we don't want a lot of casualties, so could we just have you take some of your people out of harms way?"

If you declare a war on a belligerant country, then some people are going to get hurt. The Americans' have some screwed up proceedures with this. I've heard of grenades being tossed into Hummers... soldiers being shot in the neck while riding, or shopping, something or other. Here's the point:

You get a single chance to get the hell away from my vehicle and my buddies. I load a round into the chamber, very visibly. You keep coming, I point the rifle at you and your buddies. You don't back off, I rip you and your buddies a new, large, messy hole in your thorax. All the while, I'm repeating: Back away from the vehicle. Back away from the vehicle or I'm gonna shoot yo' ass. You don't listen, its your problem. (BTW, in Arabic, or whatever they speak over in Iraq, not sure which dialect. So they's can understand it better.)

If Iraq has been declared a combat zone, then why are soldiers going out and shopping. Its as if Darwin is hanging from a cloud with a magic wand.

Thats my rant. Thanks for listening.

AK

[Major Fubar 0]

[edit]---never mind---[/edit]

[hellfish6 7]

America is first and foremost a society of consumers. And I'm not saying this to pass judgement or anything - indeed, if I was over there, I'd probably be in line ordering/buying something too. But there are precautions you have to take. Namely, always travel with a group, which it sounds like a lot of these guys haven't done. Two people getting shot up in a Humvee here or a guy standing in line there... where was everyone else? In Kuwait, we ALWAYS stuck close together, in groups of at least four but nearly always ten or so. And that was in a supposedly peaceful, friendly country.

[The Frenchman 0]

Namely, always travel with a group

Yep, that is the most important thing to do in that situation. What do they teach these guys?

j/k

[Balschoiw 0]

That´s what I call news USSoldier11B:

Iraqi police have now arrested 19 men as suspects in the Najaf bombing. The Saudi government is worried that the investigation in Iraq will reveal that Saudi Islamic radicals are heavily involved in the Iraqi terrorism. This is political dynamite. Al Qaeda has always had as its core members Sunni Arabs who have a long history of anti-Shia prejudice. If these attitudes can be traced to the Najaf bombing, it will be a major diplomatic problem for Saudi Arabia for some time.

U.S. troops arrested tribal chief Sheikh Hatem al-Assy al-Obeidi, for allowing sabotage against oil pipelines and electrical transmission lines. Saddam Hussain had paid al-Obeidi $150,000 a month to guard the pipeline. American forces signed a deal with al-Obeidi last month for less than half that amount. Al-Obeidi publicly complained about the cheap Americans and how members of his tribe might be attacking the pipeline anyway. Al-Obeidi apparently doesn't understand the American custom of, "if you are bought, stay bought." Al-Obeidi presides over one of the largest Iraqi tribes, with about a million members, most of them in the north. Al-Obeidi apparently feels that if he could get away with extorting Saddam, the Americans should be easy pickings. This attitude by the tribal chiefs has long been a problem in Iraq. Too many of the chiefs care only for themselves and their tribes and are willing to see the rest of the country go down the tubes, even if that eventually harms their own tribe as well. Saddam Hussein exploited this nasty characteristic to bribe the tribes to support his government. When a tribe did not cooperate, Saddam would punish the entire tribe savagely, for a while, and then offer to make a deal again. That offer was usually accepted, and adhered to. It appears that the U.S. Army is using a similar approach, but without the torture chambers and death camps.

Iraqi police, turned lose to try and solve the murder of Ayatollah Mohammad Baqer al-Hakim, announced that they have arrested two Iraqis and two Saudis with connections to al Qaeda. The Iraqi police were not much motivated by the earlier bombing of the UN headquarters and Jordanian embassy, even though dozens of Iraqis were killed. But the Najaf bombing is different, as it threatens to set off a religious war within Iraq. The Shia have long been persecuted by Sunnis, particularly from Saudi Arabia. Although the government forbids it, Saudi clerics often preach sermons where they condemn Shias as heretics. Saddam Hussein and most of his followers are Sunnis, and it won't take much more to get the Shias in a murderous mood regarding all Sunnis.

The coalition has pledged two million dollars to repair the bomb damage in Najaf. It was also revealed that a week before the bombing, the coalition had provided 400 rifles and money to arm and equip a security force around the holy places in Najaf.

[denoir 0]

France and Germany reject US Iraq plans

Hardly a surprise. The suggestion that USA presented was basically: "We won't change anything. Now give us troops and money!"

[-TU--33ker 0]

France and Germany reject US Iraq plans

Hardly a surprise. The suggestion that USA presented was basically: "We won't change anything. Now give us troops and money!"

How can the US governement really expect to get help from "Old Europe" with this attitude?

It needs more ass-kissing from Bush and the UN should be in charge there, not the USA.

[CosmicCastaway 0]

Quote[/b] ]The draft resolution at the UN seeks a mandate for a multinational force in Iraq which, Mr Powell stressed, would be under US command.

Not really surprising that that little nugget went down like a lead balloon.

I especially liked this bit:

Quote[/b] ]UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw called for an extra 5,000 UK soldiers, warning of a "strategic failure" otherwise.

I didn't even think we had that many troops full stop these days in the UK.

[EiZei 0]

I wonder, if things start to get really desperate is the US going to swallow their pride and beg UN to intervene?

[Balschoiw 0]

Well-known superplaner Rumsfeld in Iraq.

I am sure he gets a warm welcome

Article

We really should check the videos very patient. Maybe he is in the Sierras and fakes the visit.

[CosmicCastaway 0]

Quote[/b] ]Rumsfeld, speaking to reporters on his plane to the Middle East, said more American forces were not needed in Iraq, but called for more Iraqi and international involvement in security.

Lol!

"We don't wan't any more of our boys killed, how about the rest of you countries pitch in?"

[ralphwiggum 6]

wonder where his 'we can do it ourselves' attitude is now.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]wonder where his 'we can do it ourselves' attitude is now

It is still there for the business to be made in Iraq