The matrix: reloaded

[Oligo 1]

In order to keep total control over the human race the mashenes have a matrix within a matrix. So when Neo and his friends think their free they are really just in another matrix. Now this is 100% control over the humanity as they believe they are free although they are not.

There is an alternative explanation to Neo's "superpowers" in the real world. Remember when Smith said that he got something from Neo that set him free, when they touched? Well, maybe Neo got something in return: A way to communicate with the machines, like machine network protocols or something? Remember when Neo says: "Something is different, I can feel them [sentinels] now." He isn't necessarily a human, you know, he could be a cyborg or a robot wearing a Keanu-suit.

Then again, it's pretty stupid trying to second-guess the plot of a sci-fi movie.

[John C Flett 0]

Not going to get into a long debate though there are some interesting ideas being thrown about here. Essentially I thought the film was average. Overblown action sequences, underdeveloped plot and not enough emotional involvement. It passed 2 hours fine but aside form some interesting images I thought this was just another Hollywood action film. Not a patch on the original 'Matrix' or 'Bound'.

[ale2999 0]

there is no matrix inside the matrix I believe. I thought the same too b4, but rewatching the animatrix (2nd renaissance part 1 and 2) the real world of the animatrix matches the real world of the matrix movie. ALso I hear the brothers also said there is no matrix in matrix, but I could be wrong as matrix in matrix theory makes a lot of sense

[Nagual 0]

@ May 29 2003,15:23)]

Anyway, a religion usually involved a god, normally something supernatural (or believe in the opposite, that there is no god or supernatural).  Believing that what someone told you is going to happen is not, in my book at least, a religion.

Well, your book rules out a significant portion of the world's religions, including Buddhism. Buddhism has no deity to speak of, and neither does it mention the existence or nonexistence thereof. It does have established dogma and articles of faith, which, despite what's in your book, are the aspects that make a religion a religion. Belief in a supreme being is merely belief- religion is structured and organized faith. But when you actualy look at it, the One prophecy qualifies as a religion, even by your own narrow guidelines.

The One prophecy in a nutshell: At one point a man was born within the Matrix that could control and change any aspect of the Matrix that he saw fit (sounds like a God to me). When he died, the Oracle (read: prophet) said that he would return, and fulfill the prophecy that the One would destroy the Matrix and free mankind (saviour alert).

Am I missing something? This is New Testament 101 we're talking about here. The trilogy just throws out the usual Christlike imagery in exchange for a cyberpunk setting, changes a few details, adds some existential philosophy, a smattering of Eastern religious tie-ins, and bam- you've got yourself the entire Matrix concept.

I'm not familiar with the "New Testament", so dont see the connection. The good ol christians ripped most of their symbology from older things. The easiest example is celtic and druid culture, so much christian dogma comes from those old ways.

Even the rising from the dead stuff is way older than obvious christian example, also in the first movie. Dying, raising from the dead and starting life under a new name / purpose is a very common shamanic ritual / symbolic death, that is recorded all around the world, well before biblical time.

Believing a prophecy is not a religion. That would mean peeps that beileve nostradamus stuff are in a religion. People sometimes have to believe in something. Technque and guidance systems are not dogma, like learning to use a lighthouse to steer a ship is not dogma when learning to navigate.

And i have to say, [sarcasm] people running off to have sex during an underground rave is totally unheard of and out of place[/sarcasm].

[Oligo 1]

Believing a prophecy is not a religion. That would mean peeps that beileve nostradamus stuff are in a religion. People sometimes have to believe in something. Technque and guidance systems are not dogma, like learning to use a lighthouse to steer a ship is not dogma when learning to navigate.

People who choose to believe in the prophecies of Nostradamus are in some level engaging in a religious process. What is the myth of Nostradamus, but a bud of a religion? What is the myth of UFOs, but a bud of a religion? All those have a dogmatic text, a prophet or prophets, deliverance, etc...

Try to think out of the box.

[Tigershark_BAS 0]

Nagual....stop posting in here and get back to work!

*reaches for his whip*

[Nagual 0]

Believing a prophecy is not a religion. That would mean peeps that beileve nostradamus stuff are in a religion. People sometimes have to believe in something. Technque and guidance systems are not dogma, like learning to use a lighthouse to steer a ship is not dogma when learning to navigate.

People who choose to believe in the prophecies of Nostradamus are in some level engaging in a religious process. What is the myth of Nostradamus, but a bud of a religion? What is the myth of UFOs, but a bud of a religion? All those have a dogmatic text, a prophet or prophets, deliverance, etc...

Try to think out of the box.

LOL, so what is a textbook, religion? And what box btw?

So people thinking there could be life elsewhere in the universe are religious, because they..think? No, things can be what they are, people can think and believe in whatever they want, without it being "the bud of religion". I am not a religious person at all, i prefer freedom, hehe, but is that religion too?

I dont buy that at all. I stick to my sphere thanks.

[Oligo 1]

So people thinking there could be life elsewhere in the universe are religious, because they..think? No, things can be what they are, people can think and believe in whatever they want, without it being "the bud of religion". I am not a religious person at all, i prefer freedom, hehe, but is that religion too?

See, speculating that there might be life elsewhere in the universe is one thing and believing all the X-files episodes are true is another thing.

Making speculations based on the data available is a part of science. Taking some totally arbitrary "truth" and then believing in it without any proof whatsoever is religion insofar that it utilizes the same responses of the human brain as institutionalized religion.

But whateva, rock'n roll foreva, mon! If you honestly cannot see the religious undertones of Morpheus' faith, it really won't fuck up my day.

[soul_assassin 1750]

Just to make one thing straight:

Religion is a thing we made up to answer the main philosophical questions:

1) Where we come from?

2) How lond r we here?

3) And why are we here?

Without religion those questions remain to speculation and some people are ok with that. For strong christians for example:

1) God made Adam and Eve bla bla bla

2) A few Thousand years

3) To fulfill the bidding of God

Any good Theoty Of Knowledge student should know this

[Blaegis 0]

Religion is a thing we made up to answer the main philosophical questions:

1) Where we come from?

2) How lond r we here?

3) And why are we here?

IMO religion is:

a) one of the earliest forms of escapism

b) a way to shift responsibility for your actions and everything that's going on around you to the broad shoulders of some "higher power"

and, last but not least

c) a way for a smart few to control and mind-fuck the many

...but that's just cynical me

[Nagual 0]

So people thinking there could be life elsewhere in the universe are religious, because they..think? No, things can be what they are, people can think and believe in whatever they want, without it being "the bud of religion". I am not a religious person at all, i prefer freedom, hehe, but is that religion too?

See, speculating that there might be life elsewhere in the universe is one thing and believing all the X-files episodes are

true is another thing.

Making speculations based on the data available is a part of science. Taking some totally arbitrary "truth" and then believing in it without any proof whatsoever is religion insofar that it utilizes the same responses of the human brain as

institutionalized religion.

But whateva, rock'n roll foreva, mon! If you honestly cannot see the religious undertones of Morpheus' faith, it really won't

fuck up my day.

Err...believing all the x files are true is called stupidity, not religion.

And i agree, going with something with no grounds in fact and believing in it is crazy, much like most religions and most common core aspects of daily life. Though it's not like science has all the answers, it does not have the scope to cover

everything, and has more than enough of its own massive flaws and huge assumptions. How does science explain becoming concious in dreams? Thats something that is possible, it is absolutley a fact, how does science bring that into focus, out of religion?

Despite the fact that dreaming is possible, the scientific speculations dont prove so, even if they did, they are just speculations, much like the visions of a priest about the god he doesnt actually know (as in, have any experience of). Then the scientific findings will turn to fact, not based on truth, and be believed, notice a pattern maybe?

Who's "truth" is real, the science truth that dreaming doesn't exist, or the dreamers truth?

I can see undertones in the matrix stuff (duh), whether i interpret that as "religion" is really a matter of my predilections and worldview. Just the same for you and anyone, you are percieving it through your own filters, that is in no way the truth, just a reflection of your own mind.

I get the feeling anything i say will be met with "thats religion", ahh the wonders of science never cease.

"But whateva, rock'n roll foreva, mon!"

...okaaaay then  

[ran 0]

i want to let my hairs grow , to taint them in platinum blond , make dreadlocks and buy a white leather jacket

[CoolCarlos2002 2]

i want to let my hairs grow , to taint them in platinum blond , make dreadlocks and buy a white leather jacket

After that, please take a picture of yourself

[Oligo 1]

And i agree, going with something with no grounds in fact and believing in it is crazy, much like most religions and most common core aspects of daily life. Though it's not like science has all the answers, it does not have the scope to cover

everything, and has more than enough of its own massive flaws and huge assumptions. How does science explain becoming concious in dreams? Thats something that is possible, it is absolutley a fact, how does science bring that into focus, out of religion?

Despite the fact that dreaming is possible, the scientific speculations dont prove so, even if they did, they are just speculations, much like the visions of a priest about the god he doesnt actually know (as in, have any experience of). Then the scientific findings will turn to fact, not based on truth, and be believed, notice a pattern maybe?

Science does not even pretend to have "all the answers". Scientific process observes the world, then builds hypotheses on these observations and finally proves or disproves the hypotheses with further observation. What we thus have is a gradually evolving description of how the universe and everything in it works. What is so cool about it is that all the observations that were done to build that description can be independently verified by whomever who is suspecting some part of the description of the world. No belief is needed. Everything is based on fact.

Thus I don't understand your comments on how according to science, dreaming is not possible? What? Clearly dreaming is a fact that each and every one of us can verify by going to sleep. This is the observation and it must be true. The next step would be hypothesis on how dreaming works and experiments to prove that hypothesis. As far as I know, the mechanisms of dreaming are not yet wholly understood, but that merely means that more research has to be done.

The point is, scientific description of the world is not dogma, because it changes all the time as new data becomes available. If somebody treats it like dogma, the that person is treating science as religion, which is a fallacy.

[ran 0]

i want to let my hairs grow , to taint them in platinum blond , make dreadlocks and buy a white leather jacket

After that, please take a picture of yourself  

hehehe

anyway , the movie was pretty nice , and the wachowski brothers made a great job in giving this film a souleven if it's a blockbuster with millions of dollars invested in special effects

one of the scenes i loved was the kind of rave in zion (is it a z or a s .... bah) after the morpheus' speech

[CoolCarlos2002 2]

i want to let my hairs grow , to taint them in platinum blond , make dreadlocks and buy a white leather jacket

After that, please take a picture of yourself  

hehehe

anyway , the movie was pretty nice , and the wachowski brothers made a great job in giving this film a souleven if it's a blockbuster with millions of dollars invested in special effects

one of the scenes i loved was the kind of rave in zion (is it a z or a s .... bah) after the morpheus' speech

In french its S and in english its Zion

so in french its said Ssion and english Zzion

[Nagual 0]

Thus I don't understand your comments on how according to science, dreaming is not possible? What? Clearly dreaming is a fact that each and every one of us can verify by going to sleep. This is the observation and it must be true. The next step would be hypothesis on how dreaming works and experiments to prove that hypothesis. As far as I know, the mechanisms of dreaming are not yet wholly understood, but that merely means that more research has to be done.

I'll reply properly later, but just to avoid confusion, i mean actual dreaming. Not regular dreams, lol, yes we can verify that by sleeping. Millions of people can testify to becoming aware in a dream, as aware (if not more so) as in waking time, and with memory of the waking mind, able to mainpulate the dream environment, not a nightly occurence for most people. Some people actually pay many thousands of dollars at established institutes to reach that state.

That is the observation of millions..so it must be...

[Antichrist 0]

Well the whole plot of the Matrix doesn't make sense cause anything with a little bit of a brain (Architect) would've made at lease 10 levels of The Matrix.... just in case!

[Supah 0]

Quote[/b] ]-Bloody annoying French guy with his orgasm cake

Yet i find myself searching for the recipe

[soul_assassin 1750]

Quote[/b] ]-Bloody annoying French guy with his orgasm cake

Yet i find myself searching for the recipe

true true

[Col. Kurtz 0]

one of the scenes i loved was the kind of rave in zion (is it a z or a s .... bah) after the morpheus' speech

Your probably the only person I have seen in all the threads about the matrix reloaded I have read who liked that scene. It seems that everyone despises it along with the sex scene.

I think the rave was good, but too long. I think it could have had the same if not more impact and been a lot shorter.

[ran 0]

one of the scenes i loved was the kind of rave in zion (is it a z or a s .... bah) after the morpheus' speech

Your probably the only person I have seen in all the threads about the matrix reloaded I have read who liked that scene. It seems that everyone despises it along with the sex scene.

I think the rave was good, but too long. I think it could have had the same if not more impact and been a lot shorter.

hehehe , the sex scene ........ that too , but you know me .....

no , my real favourite is the fight in the chateau

and let the wachowski brothers do what they want , they needed to find something to put a Fluke song in the movie hehehehe

i didn't like too much the parts which happened in the "real world" and prefered the matrix scenes

[MLF 0]

some think its a zionist plot against islam (The whole matrix thing)

btw this is not my view.

[ale2999 0]

some think its a zionist plot against islam (The whole matrix thing)

btw this is not my view.

how? because there seem to be a parallelism with christianism

[FSPilot 0]

How on earth does the plot of the matrix parallel with Christianity?