Vehicle targeting system

[SlickPilot 0]

I like to fly helicopters in OFP but I hate the fact that the top 30 percent of the screen is cluttered with the targeting system that I can't turn off. First, it really kills the visibility and secondly, it is a cheat because you should not automatically know about buildings and vehicles just because you are close to them. No matter how good of a job someone does concealing items- just jump into a tank or chopper and you can automatically find anything.

[Dubble0zero 0]

That is called radar

The problem is that it can "see" throu mountans, forests and stuff like that...

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Not all the vehicles in OFP which have this have radar so its a bit wrong.

[Dubble0zero 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX @ 15 May 2003,05:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Not all the vehicles in OFP which have this have radar so its a bit wrong.<span id='postcolor'>

I can't argue with that, I don't know enough about all the vehicles...

And they should make it more real if it is possible...

[Commando84 0]

no don't get rid of the radar! I just love flying choppers and planes and trying to lock on something that is very far away and fire off a missile and hope that it won't miss..

Well if you do want to remove the radar you should be able to adjust that in the options because some people love the radar and some hates it...

[Commander-598 0]

Some vehicles have radar, like aircraft, while armored vehicles don't have it.

AA Armored Vehicles(Shilka, Vulcan) have radar but thats about it.

[SlickPilot 0]

As long as you are able to turn that (phoney) radar off, I'd be very happy.

[WhoCares 0]

But tanks have IR sensors...

[Commander-598 0]

But not radar.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

I think this could become a discussion of vehicle electronics or electronic systems in the game in general

no.22 of my list

"22¬:Increased simulation of electronics systems on appropriate vehicles

*More real aircraft avionics-realistic avionics systems

-on board navigation/ waypoint system

-defence systems such as working counter-measures (C.M.) chaff/flares, Electronic C.M. ,active radar detection, ‘lock on’ alert warning

-ability to aggressively detect ground and air radar out to long ranges (beyond visual range and current detection range)

-moveable turrets/cameras for aircraft

-greater role for certain vehicle gunners with TV, thermal, radar and other targeting systems as appropriate

*more electronic system simulation on appropriate ground vehicles (tanks etc)"

As it stands OFPs simulation of electronic systems is basic (one size fits all). It actually works surprisingly well and is fun to play like that but i think it would be cool for OFP 2 to have more 'vehicle specific' electric/electronic systems

and more detailed/accurate representations of those systems

(the greater detail and complication could be a difficulty option).

I know ,i know... OFP 2 will likely have all 70s technology (unless aliens invade ) but even if there are not more complicated electronic systems in the official campaign it would be nice if it was possible for addon makers to create a range of simulated electronic systems in the future. So i am saying it would be good to able to create and add vehicle specific systems into the game (utilising certain sensors and highly customisable vehicle properties perhaps?)

I really am not knowledgeable in this subject but in general i would suggest maximum adaptability and ability to customise when creating vehicles.

[WKK Gimbal 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IsthatyouJohnWayne @ 16 May 2003,15:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(unless aliens invade )<span id='postcolor'>

Please ... add aliens to OFP2

[Heatseeker 0]

well i duno bout radar... but the targeting sistem is bad, like the one on the 50 cal. emplacements, very unrealistic if you ask me, also on the UH-60 MG, jeep with MG and M113, it feels kinda weird .

[theavonlady 2]

There are a couple of threads open about HUDs and radars but this one seems the best to post my suggestions.

First of all, I don't believe in doing away with the radar HUD in tanks and aircraft. There's got to be something there, especially against the AI who know all and see all.

My suggestion is to color code targets in the HUD. Right now, all live targets are marked red. I would like to be at least able to distinquish between land/sea and air targets by color.

So, if there's a Hind heading my way in a battlefield full of armored vehicles, I can easily ID it in the HUD versus the red armor indicators.

[FSPilot 0]

the only equipment in OFP that should carry radar are the vulcan and the shilka. none of the aircraft or helicopters do. besides that, there is no radar in existance that filters out all the garbage, marks buildings as white, somehow knows what's an enemy and marks it as red, and somehow knows whats a friendly and marks it as green.

if you ask me the whole thing should be removed. makes the game too arcade-ish

[theavonlady 2]

the only equipment in OFP that should carry radar are the vulcan and the shilka.  none of the aircraft or helicopters do.  besides that, there is no radar in existance that filters out all the garbage, marks buildings as white, somehow knows what's an enemy and marks it as red, and somehow knows whats a friendly and marks it as green.

if you ask me the whole thing should be removed.  makes the game too arcade-ish

Keep in mind that not all of us are flightsim experts like you.

I'm not arguing against those who want to optionally disable the HUD altogether.

But for those of us that want to have the ability to retain it, once a target has been ID'd by the AI (and the AI already knows the vehicle type, direction and location), color coding would enable the player to prioritize attack and defense strategies.

Remember also that even if you disable it, if you're up against AI, they know it all and that's an advantage that's unfair when the HUD is completely disabled.

Now getting back to real life for a second, how do real pilots (let's say chopper pilots, for example), distinquish and prioritize targets?

[suma 8]

the only equipment in OFP that should carry radar are the vulcan and the shilka.

I think most modern tanks have quite advanced IR scanner, which is able to detect vehicle type based on the IR signature. The same is true for many planes.

[theavonlady 2]

the only equipment in OFP that should carry radar are the vulcan and the shilka.

I think most modern tanks have quite advanced IR scanner, which is able to detect vehicle type based on the IR signature. The same is true for many planes.

So, then:

1. The current HUD is not far fetched in concept.

2. What about color coding target types?

[suma 8]

1. The current HUD is not far fetched in concept.

Yes, I think so. It looks much different from the real thing, but it provides similiar service.

Quote[/b] ]2. What about color coding target types?

I am afraid some military expert has to answer this. I think real device is more likely to use icons (no color CRT tube is likely to be present in 80's field-use vehicle), but I think there is some distintion.

[ran 0]

1. The current HUD is not far fetched in concept.

Yes, I think so. It looks much different from the real thing, but it provides similiar service.

Quote[/b] ]2. What about color coding target types?

I am afraid some military expert has to answer this. I think real device is more likely to use icons (no color CRT tube is likely to be present in 80's field-use vehicle), but I think there is some distintion.

from a small visit in a french air defence radar shelter mounted on a VLRA with the nice codename of SAMANTHA , i can say on the leader's console screen , the spots were caracterized by a color given by the IFF , red/orange for enemy (red for enemy in the operationnal zone of the AA group and orange when it's out of range) , green/blue for friendlies (don't know exactly what the difference is between the two , maybe a matter of missions or nationality) and yellow/white for unidentified , and then , they were represented by an icon representing the type or the level of the threat after an evaluation of the radar echo or something like that

-edit-: but i'm pretty sure you're right about weapons systems of the 80's

[whisperFFW06 0]

The "radar" on OFP I never considered as a radar but as some simplified representation of all the onboard sensors and targetting devices.

And it achieves a pretty good result.

Terrain has various effect on it, ie buildings can be seen through terrain (not realistic), but not vehicles (realistic).

We could consider the color system as an onboard IFF, disregarding the fact that these systems were not fielded to ground units in 1985.

My main gripe is about the 360° field of view of the "radar", which transform it to something near god like, when it should only have a forward cone of detection (movable by gunner, for example following gunner aiming cursor) to represent the detection of various FLIR/LLTV operated by gunner.

About unit categorization, this often resort to the gunner capabilities, it is him who classifies units into categories and put them on screen (at least it is the process in choppers, I don't know for tanks).

What I would suggest is to differentiate visual range detection and non visual range detection (mainly, active systems like radar, perhaps an active/passive system differentiation would better fit) in config.

The current main limitation on visual ID is that the viewDistance ingame is lower that the radarRange in config, resulting in units appearing on radar although it is invisible in game. If I understood correctly, the futur OFP2 engine will be able to render unlimited view, ie you can zoom max and see farther, without being stopped by today's viewDistance limit.

If it is the case, why not build it this way :

- have a "activeSystemRange" parameter, caracterizing active detection systems (mainly, radars). Any target in this range will be treated like today, ie automatically printed on radar, because no action from operator is needed, the unit is just detected.

- Give the ability for the gunner to "report contacts" on radar : when the gunner sees something (through the use of passive systems like FLIR or LLTV, so he has better range than his eyes alone, he can zoom), the reveal fonction (right clic) will print the target on radar too. For correct IA gunner behaviour, a passiveSystemRange would probably be good.

And adding a parameter to fix the field of view of the radar, not 360° automatically.

Whis'

[FSPilot 0]

theavonlady

Quote[/b] ]Keep in mind that not all of us are flightsim experts like you.

You wouldn't be calling me an expert if you saw my landings.

Quote[/b] ]Now getting back to real life for a second, how do real pilots (let's say chopper pilots, for example), distinquish and prioritize targets?

Depends on the helicopter. Some have FLIR sensors, others have really nice cameras, the longbow has a radar on it. Most aircraft use some kind of targetting pod. The A-10 uses one called the "pave penny", some F-16s use a new one called the "sniper" which sounds incredibly cool.

Suma

Quote[/b] ]I think most modern tanks have quite advanced IR scanner, which is able to detect vehicle type based on the IR signature. The same is true for many planes.

Yes, but nothing is able to instantly identify the target as friend or foe, or building.

In real life there are a lot of ways to identify what you're looking at. But it depends on how you're looking at it. If you're using an IR pod or other visual sensor you can always just zoom in as far as you can and see if you can identify it visually.