Improved unit editor

[mads bahrt 0]

This would be a natural place to allow the mission maker to name the sides. You could have a text-field for each "color" where you could type an name like "KFOR", "Entente", "Allies", "Rebel", "Communist" and such.

Another idea regarding sides:

The forces from one country should be able to be part of more than one side in the game - you could have royal brits against republicans (in an imaginary war...) or Union and Confederate american troops.

[Tigershark_BAS 0]

Guys been reading this with some interest....and the ideas flowing around are good.

Problem is.....as far as dialogue design is concerned...I think you are limiting yourselves a little to what the game looks like currently.

What I would like to see is a dialog box with tabs along the top for the various categories you mentioned....on the left hand side have selectable/changeable options for the tab...and on the right side have a 3d rendered engine drawn model showing the changes you have implented. Similiarly to how the face changing dialog works.

Imagine having your soldier/unit on the right hand of the dialog.

Select the skin tab, skin options appear on the left half...scroll through options...select BAS Ranger skin....bang...image updates.

There are practicalities to work out...but I think the dialogs themselves need some redesign in addition to the suggestion you have made in this thread.

[dkraver 1]

Nice idea tigershark. The reason i kept my ideas in the same form as the current OFP is a mix of different things.

Its a easy way to make people understand them.

That BIS at some time said that OFP 2 would be a upgrade to OFP and not a complete reworked game engine, so it really never crossed my mind making them in another way.

But it would make it a lot easier and give a better overview of them.

[SpecOp9 0]

Great ideas DKRaver and Hellfish.. hope BIS takes these ideas and puts them to use

[hellfish6 7]

Guys been reading this with some interest....and the ideas flowing around are good.

et cetera...

Do you forsee this, or any other new feature described here, causing problems with making OFP1 addons compatible with OFP2?

[AgentFox2 0]

On the issue of weight and loadouts...

If any of you have played the old action game Hidden and Dangerous, they did that sort of thing remarkably well.

When you started a campaign, you had a finite amount you could bring with you for the WHOLE campaign. This space was measured as you added things in by a progress bar in the lower right.

Prior to every mission, you would select your team, then select their gear loadouts. As you added more equipment to a given man, a progress bar (again in the lower right) would show the amount of gear he could carry, as well as how much he currently had by use of a percentage meter.

This was all based on weight. So, you wouldn't really worry about whether something was a secondary weapon or not. The thing was, weapons took up a large chunk of that weight space, and you could potentially add a whole bunch of weapons to yourself, but you would end up with no ammo.

Also, how much one soldier could carry was based on an admittedly RPG-ish attribute of Strength. Each man had a value denoting how strong he was and according to this, how much he could carry. So, you could have a sniper who is a whiz shot, but he might not be able to carry more than his rifle, ammo, and a pistol. Then again you might have a guy who's super strong and can carry huge amounts of ammo, but is not a great shot. So you give him a big machine gun and let 'im go to town.

Anyway, it was a great system, and I think mentioning it is relevant.

[dkraver 1]

AgentFox2

Much of what you are saying is basicly what the idea made its way to be.

There shouldnt be primary or secondary weapons. There should be a free choice but based on real life weights with a max carrying weight. The choice would then have a effect on the movement of the soldier. So the player would have to choose between what he wants to use and how fast he want to be. With the limit i surgested you would be able to make a realistic loadout and at the same time limmit the ammount of ammo a person that selects multiple weapons rambo style.

I havent played H&D so i cant say anything about that system.

But a thing that i see from what you tell that wouldnt fit the OFP game. OFP isnt a RPG so adding different values to the soldiers would change the game from what it is today. Also any soldier around the world are trained to carry a basic loadout so there wouldnt really be any need for those values.

[SpecOp9 0]

Quote[/b] ]Do you forsee this, or any other new feature described here, causing problems with making OFP1 addons compatible with OFP2?

I'm sure he does, I know I sure do.

However there is a few things I would like to throw out.

Very good idea, only I am going to be a bit more picky and far fetched.

Building on this idea using a small mod example:

I want to make a civil war mod lets say, in the U.S.

In the flashpoint directory I open up (Sides) folder.

Inside that folder I create 10 files.

-Massachusetts

-California

-Nevada

-Maine

-Florida

-Kentucky

-Chicago

-Texas

-New York

-Alabama

I open up the mission editor, crack open the side editor, and I can configure my sides.

(Everything in BOLD letters has a drop menu.

Pretend this is the Side menu)

-----------------------------------------------------------

                                 Side Menu

-----------------------------------------------------------

Empty is Enemies/Friends/Neutral with Empty

Empty is Enemies/Friends/Neutral with Empty

Empty is Enemies/Friends/Neutral with Empty

Empty is Enemies/Friends/Neutral with Empty

Empty is Enemies/Friends/Neutral with Empty

Empty is Enemies/Friends/Neutral with Empty

Empty is Enemies/Friends/Neutral with Empty

-----------------------------------------------------------

        ACCEPT                                      CANCEL

-----------------------------------------------------------

Now the Bold letters has a drop menu.

Say I click the Empty at the beggining, I get a selection  for:

-Massachusetts

-California

-Nevada

-Maine

-Florida

-Kentucky

-Chicago

-Texas

-New York

-Alabama

I select my state, and then I move onto who they are friends, enemies, or neutral with, also using a drop menu.

VOILA!

I can have a huge battle with 10 diff sides battling each other.

The unit editor should then have a simple (choose side) selection, pop him in the map, and bam.

Cons:  Multiplayer

Solution: Inserting a Sub Folder in your Mission folder called "Sides".

A simple init.sqs file with the starting line

customsides = true

This activates custom sides, so the map knows to run it when the map is PBOed and ready to go.  This way nobody needs to download needles files that need to be installed, and instead of that it's in the sides are all in the PBO.

If there is going to be sides, I want as many as I want for my mission.

---------------------------

Unit Editor:

RESPAWN

A Simple menu that allows me to choose if I want my unit to: respawn or not, give a certain amount of time to respawn, ETC.

What do you guys think?

Also folks I opened a new forum for Flashpoint.

Speculations

All ideas on these forums that are worthy of being posted will be used in the all mighty speculation of OFP2.  And will then be simulated, into what could possibly be the next OPFlashpoint.

[dkraver 1]

To SpecOp9

Think you are making it way to complex.

1. No need for name of the unit in the side selection. It itsnt shown ingame and think about how big the sides lists would be if it had to show names of all addons. So a basic color name is much more simple and effective.

2. Why would you want 10 sides. Im not into the american civil war but some of those states must have been allies all the way through. And if some of them changed side during the war you would only have to change them from example. Red side to blue side in that mission. Wouldnt it be much easier to make it like this.

First soldier

1. Select country/Mod

-American Civil War mod

2. Select Side

-Blue

3. Select class

-Nevada (Just create a class for each state like people do with their own class folders in resistance)

then select unit and so on....

Second soldier

1. Select country/Mod

-American Civil War mod

2. Select Side

-Red

3. Select class

-Florida (Just create a class for each state like people do with their own class folders in resistance)

Third soldier

1. Select country/Mod

-American Civil War mod

2. Select Side

-Blue

3. Select class

-Nevada (Just create a class for each state like people do with their own class folders in resistance)

then select unit and so on....

And then select which sides are against each other in each mission.

10 sides and more are way to many and not needed at all. I have never heard of a battle where 10 sides fight each other at the same time. Thats what we got C&C Generals and other games for. A Max would be 6 sides.

-1st Primary Force (like West)

-2nd Primary Force (Like East)

-1st Secondary Force (Resistance force with West)

-2nd Secondary Force (Resistance force with East)

-Third Party Force (Like Peace keepers)

-Civilian

But as i also say in the post about side selection instead of haveing fixed side give them colors so you can mix it like you want.  

3. For me having to add a line in the init field just to make mission the same as making it to complex and if needed it should be intergrated into the game instead.

4. If there was to be a respawn menu it should be under the mission editor and not under unit selection. Again its about keeping it simple and around the selection of units and not about how you want your mission  

As i also said in my reply to Tigershark. Menu could be made in a different way. The reason i made them like i did was to make the ideas better understandable vs the current OFP.

[SpecOp9 0]

Well yea you could use Colors too.

Companies, countries, planets, anything :-P

Just instead of limited to only 4 sides max, I would like as many as I want.  I think that would be the ultimate WW2 mod.. knowing how many people were involved.  a Civil War (not the actual Civil War) was an example on using folders in your mission file for having as many sides as you would need.

The unit respawn goes for everything.  Trucks, Helis, Tanks, Soldiers, planes, ETC.  I honestly hate going through all that code just to make a simple vehicle to respawn properly  

Also it may be too complex, but I would like it. Knowing the mission editor had a "Easy" and "Advanced" tab, they would probably add 1 or 2 more selections for that.

[baca85 0]

Would the ablity to select whether or not the unit had a parachute or not im sure that would effect movement and wait of soldier?

[dkraver 1]

Just instead of limited to only 4 sides max, I would like as many as I want.  I think that would be the ultimate WW2 mod.. knowing how many people were involved.

Yeah there where a lot of countries involved. But they where more or less only 2 sides. And in any given battle they where only fighting like 2 sides. There where never a 3 way battle. And if you where to make a WW2 mod with campaign, as you mention your self, why would you wanna configure sides that wasnt in a battle?? Almost every battle was fought in zones controlled or appointed to different countries, so there where only 2 sides involved.

Examples.

Pacific front.

US vs Japan

UK with colonies vs Japan

China vs Japan

Russia vs Japan

European Front.

US vs Germany

US vs Italy

UK vs Germany

UK vs Italy

France vs Germany

Russia vs Germany

Then there where smaller supporting armies working under command by the main armies or defending forces in the start of the war. Like Poland, Holland, Norway, Rumania, Bulgaria, Canada just to mention a few.

So the only sides you need is:

2 For the main army group countries like US, UK, Russia , Germany and Japan because they almost never fought in the same battles.

2 For the smaller supporting armies that would join the main armies in battles.

If you make it realistic there really wouldnt be any need for more than 2 sides. Last two would only be to see the difference by color in the map. The big all vs all battles wouldnt really work in ofp. And if you wanna make them theres a game type all ready where you dont select sides but where all are enemies. For all other we got real time strategi games

[dkraver 1]

The unit respawn goes for everything.  Trucks, Helis, Tanks, Soldiers, planes, ETC.  I honestly hate going through all that code just to make a simple vehicle to respawn properly  

I think that instead of making it in the unit editor, a idea would be to have a selection in the mission editor like the waypoint selection. That way you could select a single person or a group, click on the map where you want the respawn point, then a menu would pop op and you could make the selection you talked about.

[JJonth Cheeky Monkey 1]

Dont know if someones said this, but the soldier carrying capacity should be something like Hidden and Dangerous 2. Each weapon, magazine, grenade, helmet, uniform etc. weighs something and this is taken from the soldiers carrying capacity which is say 25-30kg. I also liked the backpack in H&D2 and the way you had to transfer items from your backpack into your jacket pouches as they become empty.

Another suggestion is special vests you can start with, like the grenadiers vest which has loads of pouches, but can only be used for grenade rounds aswell as 10 other pouches for magazines etc. The disadvantage may be weight so the soldier wearing it may not be able to sprint as long and it might be very heavy when fully loaded. Instead of having one primary and one secondry maybe having 2 weapon slots would be a good idea. So instead of having a rocket launcher you can take another rifle along. You wouldn't be able to take two huge weapons like an M60 and a M40 as the combined weight of the weapons, ammo and all your other equipment would be over the limit and if you where under the limit you wouldn't be able to carry much ammo for them both. There might be a good reason for taking an XM177 instead of an M16A1 because the weight you save can be spent on other items like handgrenades and magazines or just running speed. As in Operation Flashpoint now there is no reason why you should choose a carbine over a full size rifle.

[@cero 0]

One think I used to like about Novalogic's "Delta Force" mission editor was the way they sort out the side for the units.

Something similar to what you lot are going on about.

But the color option makes more sense, this way you could have a unit fighting alongside some other team that is fighting against his own side.

Lets say, some guerrilla addon gets released and this addon have 7 different skins, like Edge's resistance addons.

You could use them to fight aginst the same Edge resistance addon.

Civilians would be in any side you'll like and so on.

That would be great.

@CERO.

[SnypaUK 0]

i dont know about you but i dont think i could carry 4 Lsws or Minimis in a bergen i think that while you should be able to have more than 1 primary weapon you should not have more than two per person plus pistols grenades etc. For example a sniper in the british army carries his sniper rifle in a drag bag and uses his L85 until he needs the sniper rifle

[hellfish6 7]

I don't think anyone in their right mind would carry more than one primary weapon. Sure, you can probably fit four SAWs in your ruck, but where are you gonna put all the ammo? A SAW with a single 200 round box is about 23 pounds (10kg) put four of them in a ruck and pretty soon you're gonna have a lot of weight on your back and you won't be able to carry anything else like ammo, socks, toiletries, food, water, extra clothing, a sleeping bag, etc. Besides that, you'll be so slow that you'll be shot before you get to use even one of your weapons.

I think the H&D2 weight/inventory system works well. I'd like to see something like that for OFP2, but I think the present system works fine as well.

[dkraver 1]

SnypaUK

Earlier i wrote in the backpack menu that i thought weapons shouldnt be allowed in the backback, exactly for the reason you mention. The backpack should only be used for extra ammo. One thing that could be allowed could be a AT weapon like the LAW since its small in size.

But if rifles is allowed it would just be the same as being able to carry multiple rifles on you.

[SnypaUK 0]

per haps only if your a sniper can you carry a rifle and a sniper rifle?

Anyway i believe that AT weapons already count seperately from rifles anyway so thats pretty much ok

[dkraver 1]

If you read back to the area about the weight loadouts, there already is a solution to that problem. But it makes you choice between multiple weapons, ammo and agility.

[firedrake 0]

I know the Russian Infantry and Airborne allow their soldiers to carry an AK74 and SVD. Though I wouldn't like it in the game, playing Call of Duty I find unrealistic when you can carry 8 grenades, Thompson, BAR, and Colt 45.

I would like however for Bohemia not to include crew served weapons. For example, the AT4 Spigot and only use one man AT Weapons like the RPG-22 (equivalent to the AT4 136). Which actually surposedly disabled a M1A1 with one shot from the rear. So you don't need heavier portable crew served weapons or artillary to compensate for heavy armour. The same goes for firing individually Artillary pieces otherwise I imagine I'm playing Moh Spearhead.

With ground attack aircraft and helicopters realistically most portable SAM systems, can knock them out in one shot shot in the right area. Hence why they use antimissile systems like chaff and flares. You can even knock helicopters with small arms fire.

I would be nice though to muck around with the inventory so I could have realistically have 6 mags and 4 frags. You get way to many grenades, but maybe Bohemia decided to compensate for those like myself who first played and couldn't hit a barn door.

People who want to carry more weapons and use crew served weapons should really be playing first person shooters. In OFP you can either pick up the weapon you need for the job or the AI on your side can do it. The whole idea of a combat sim is tactics not firepower.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

...or we could have crew served weapons that need a crew to use them... ever think of that?

Also

You seem to think that because in one case a RPG22 just managed to disable an M1A1 from the rear in a lucky shot, that means that all RPG22s are capable of disabling all kinds of armour? err... no.

[Friedchiken 0]

yeah, maybe to encourage using crews, "special abilities" are unlocked when people like map readers, commanders, ect. mount the crew served weapon. therefore only one guy on a gun would have very limited abilities. I mean the other crew members are helping right?

[firedrake 0]

The original OFP did not employ crew served weapons? Why make things more complicated.

Eh! why do you think it was fired at the rear of the tank and at a vulnerable point. A lucky shot would be if penetrated the front of its armour.

Likewise it depends what type of ammunition you are using to penetrate armour. Hence the various types of RPG rounds.

There is no universal round which can penetrate all types of armour! The RPG-22 is designed for AT purposes not knocking out battleships!

You could make the game complicated and start using various types of RPG round for different types of so called armours. If a RPG-22 can disable M1A1 in all intensive purposes if should be able to damage M2A2. If in OFP you can knock out a M2A2 with a RPG NH-75 and thats something that actually hasn't happened in reality yet!

I didn't actually state the RPG-22 can penetrate all types of armour thats your own delusion!

[Friedchiken 0]

well, I don't want one rambo to control all the functions of the tank.  Crew weapons like tanks shouldn't be too complex in this type of game.  Just have each guy have a limited role.  Plus we don't have to make it 100% realistic.  For instance, on an artillery peice, the map reader clicks on the target on the map and then the "gunner" would get guidelines on where to aim.  Simple