The Dogs of War

[theavonlady 2]

Gonna call it a night. Weather update:

Once again, the local weather patterns and those in Iraq were very similar. Over the last few days, temperatures here shot up to the mid 30's. Same in Iraq.

The heatwave here broke just this evening and there's a beautiful cool breeze outside. So I anticipate something similar may be happening in Iraq, with temperatures dropping to a more comfortable level.

[bn880 5]

Another USSA update:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Russian military intel update: War in Iraq, April 5

The situation on the US-Iraqi front is characterized by gradual reduction of American offensive activity. After the 3rd Mechanized Infantry Division tank forces had marched towards Baghdad and its vanguards reached the city from south and south-west, engineering fortification of their positions began, which indicates the end of the current stage of the campaign as well as the loss of offensive potential of American forces and necessity to rest and regroup...<span id='postcolor'>

[Balschoiw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">which indicates the end of the current stage of the campaign as well as the loss of offensive potential of American forces and necessity to rest and regroup...<span id='postcolor'>

I am somehow not going conform with this conclusion. Strange conclusion anyway.

I think the coalition forces will just dig in and cut the city off. Nothing unconventional in this. Air Force and missiles will rock Bagdad while the coaltion troops wait for the breakdown. That´s what i think.

[bn880 5]

I also don't think that they need to regroup means they lost assault potential, they are trying cut off the city more like you said. I seriously doubt that there won't be major attacks on Baghdad however, I think that's more propaganda to get the preparation of the RG down. I would personally prefer urban conflict to people starving for weeks. Better die fighting than starving, if they will actually starve.

[Balschoiw 0]

Yeah replace my upper with

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ April 03 2003,06:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Stupid ass US forces! (if this is true)<span id='postcolor'>

Don't you mean "Stupid ass UNICEF!"?

Sort of lept to conclusions, eh?<span id='postcolor'>

Bit of a late reply here but, if you took the time to read what bn880 posted, UNICEF were the ones pointing out to the US that the military distributed rations look quite a bit like bombs

As far as I can remember the UNICEF symbol is not a US flag.

[PFC_Mike 2]

Yeah. that was a dumb mistake. BUT

1. How many cluster bombs have been used?

2. How many bomblets are duds?

3. What does it take to set off a dud cluster bomb?

4. I think most adults can tell the difference.

It's a very stupid and rather dangerous mistake, but I don't think it will cause the death and mayhem you seem to hope for. No that's not directed at Tovarish, but many people on this forum seem to rejoice at anything that makes the US and UK look bad, regardless of who gets hurt.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PFC_Mike @ April 06 2003,06:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's a very stupid and rather dangerous mistake, but I don't think it will cause the death and mayhem you seem to hope for.<span id='postcolor'>

Right....because I oppose the war and I point this out I'm wishing for death and mayhem...

Think what you will buddy, I'm getting tired of sensless arguments.

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

How big is the canister and the food?

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hit_Sqd_Maximus @ April 06 2003,06:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How big is the canister and the food?<span id='postcolor'>

If you don't know what makes you think an Iraqi kid will?

[ralphwiggum 6]

people, calm down! no need to get into another conflict here.

[Schoeler 0]

Statistically, only 85% of cluster bomblets explode.  They can lay inert on the ground for months just waiting to be stepped on.  Of course they are also extremely effective when they can catch an infantry formation out in open terrain.  I think a lot of what the dumbass media types thought were cluster bombs, were actually JTIDS guided submunitions.  Definitiely not the same thing.

That RIF by the 3rd ID's 2nd Brigade reached a bridge near the university (pretty near central Baghdad), and several sources inside Baghdad saw U.S. military vehicles.  The purpose of the excursion was more psychological in nature.  The Coalition wanted to show the Iraqis, that they could come and go within the city at will.  There will be more RIF's today, the purpose to divide the city up into zones of control.

Anyone who believes anything the Iraqi Information Minister is putting out needs to go find a mirror, line themselves up with it, and hit themself in the head with a tackhammer.  Even Al Jazeera is smirking at some of his claims.

Tracy T.  I would also like to point out that there are virtually NO resources in Afghanistan to be exploited (unless you count heroin poppies as a resource) and there certainly isn't any oil in significant qualities worth developing.  Whatever claims you might have heard that Karzai is an oilman, I would reconsider their validity.  You can look it up if you don't believe me.  Also, its gonna take A LOT longer than a year or two to restore a viable form of government to a region dominated by anarchy for the last twenty years.  Give it a few more years.  Though I do agree that the Afghanis are getting screwed in the amount of aid they have recieved so far.  It is nothing near what was promised to them.  Try not to be so reactionary to the things you read and hear, consider instead the possible bias of the source, obtain multiple other sources, form your best hypothesis, and go from there.  That bitter taste you get in your mouth when some of the things you voice your anger against, that are later proved to be not nearly as dramatic or worse, completely untrue, is the taste of the propaganda you swallowed.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ April 06 2003,11:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bit of a late reply here but, if you took the time to read what bn880 posted, UNICEF were the ones pointing out to the US that the military distributed rations look quite a bit like bombs<span id='postcolor'>

Only if you're either really hungry, or just not that bright.

the rations are rectangular, the bomblets are cylindrical.  the rations are surrounded by happy Iraqis, the bomblets are surrounded by dead Iraqis.  the food rations are, apparently, bigger than the bomblets.

if you walked into an open area surrounded by small craters and dead people, then spotted a mysterious object on the ground that has roughly the same color as food packaging, do you immediately think "food"?  I sure hope not.

but hey, they're the same color!  my red car is the same color as a delicious red apple, but I'm not going to eat it.

mmm... pineapple

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 05 2003,22:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Has anyone posted this news yet?

We just saw it on TV here and were sickened. It was very gory.  

edit: I should point out that the TV report (from overseas) claimed that these werre executed Iraqi soldiers. They also showed documentation found listing names and containing post-execution pics of them.

They showed the bullet ridden walls where they were shot and there were also reports of torture chamber(s) and equipment found.<span id='postcolor'>

Latest update, generally confirming yesterday's TV report.

[PFC_Mike 2]

Debka is reporting that Saddam's family and some associates are in Syria in a beachfront compound guarded by SAMs and patrol boats. James Gastovski where are you?

On a side note, Hamid Karzai is president of Afghanistan because he meets this criteria.

1. He fought the Taliban the entire time. Never changed sides.

2. He fought the Soviets.

3. He's an ethnic Pashtun. The majority of Afghanistan is Pashtun.

4. He'll do what the US asks.

5. He's well educated and reasonably competent.

Oilman? Seriously, Afghanistan has no resources whatsoever. No oil, no minerals, nothing.

[Balschoiw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oilman? Seriously, Afghanistan has no resources whatsoever. No oil, no minerals, nothing.

<span id='postcolor'>

But very much land to build a necessary pipeline on. Maybe you missed that.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ April 06 2003,11:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But very much land to build a necessary pipeline on. Maybe you missed that.<span id='postcolor'>

Not overly necessary, according to this US Dept. of Energy fact sheet.

[Col. Kurtz 0]

US Bombs Friendlies

Supposedly US Special Forces and Kurds including a senior official travelling in a car convoy were bombed by an American plane in Northern Iraq

[tracy_t 0]

OK,

if you think it's all lies then why not go to www.google.com and use the following as the search criteria:

+"hamid karzai" +Unocal

Amongst the usual conspiracy theories & shit, dig deep enough and you will find that Karzai is an ex-oilman who worked for Unocal. I believe Le Monde revealed this first.

Of course, I can't prove it conclusively, but then again, you can't disprove it conclusively either.

Also, from the same set of results, you will find articles about building gas pipelines across Afghanistan.

[Longinius 1]

"Only if you're either really hungry, or just not that bright.

the rations are rectangular, the bomblets are cylindrical. the rations are surrounded by happy Iraqis, the bomblets are surrounded by dead Iraqis. the food rations are, apparently, bigger than the bomblets."

If you had bothered to think one step further you might actually see the problem. The problem is that children, who commonly arent that bright and in these situations really, really hungry connect the bright color yellow with something positive.

Food packages -> Yellow there for Yellow = Good

Bomblets -> Yellow there for Bomblets = Good

But of course I am sure this only applies to stupid arab and colored kids, right? Not like a white kid would ever do that, so we dont have to worry. Our kids go to school after all, and they have FS to tell them what a food package is and what a bomblet is. Hurray for us.

[Blaegis 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 06 2003,10:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ April 06 2003,11:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But very much land to build a necessary pipeline on. Maybe you missed that.<span id='postcolor'>

Not overly necessary, according to this US Dept. of Energy fact sheet.<span id='postcolor'>

Come on, Avon, read your own article

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Due to its location between the oil and natural gas reserves of the Caspian Basin and the Indian Ocean, Afghanistan has long been mentioned as a potential pipeline route, though in the near term, several obstacles will likely prevent Afghanistan from becoming an energy transit corridor.<span id='postcolor'> The US government definitely viewed it as "necessary" prior to invasion of Afghanistan. The pipeline didn't pan out for several reasons:

1) The oil reserves in the Caspian sea proved consideably smaller than expected after test drilling was completed.

2) The only place in Afghanistan that can be truly called "under control" and is Bagram air base. That makes it rather difficult to build the pipeline, since it doesn't go through Kabul.

3) The Russians regard the pipeline as Yankee meddling in their own backyard, and I'm sure did everything possible to stop it from being built.

But back to Iraq:

The Abrams in Baghdad was apparently disabled by a mine (as far as I could tell from the Reuters Raw Video footage). There was also nice clean hole through the side of the turret. I think it's reasonable to assume that the Abrams was destroyed by a sabot from another M1 after being immobilized by a mine.

A US plane bombed BBC World correspondent Don Simpson, riding along a mixed US-Kurdish convoy in Northern Iraq. At least 10 KIA, according to Simpson.

From a strategic standpoint, I think the Iraqi game's played. If the US troops managed to drive from Southern to South-Western Baghdad with a relatively small force and suffering only negligible losses, I don't see any way for them to turn the tide in their favor. For certain, there will still be fighting and casualties, but the outcome is now certain. Of course, it was certain from the start, but it was near-impossible to predict the severity of fighting and combat losses.

Edit: additional details about the Abrams

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaegis @ April 06 2003,13:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 06 2003,10:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ April 06 2003,11:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But very much land to build a necessary pipeline on. Maybe you missed that.<span id='postcolor'>

Not overly necessary, according to this US Dept. of Energy fact sheet.<span id='postcolor'>

Come on, Avon, read your own article

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Due to its location between the oil and natural gas reserves of the Caspian Basin and the Indian Ocean, Afghanistan has long been mentioned as a potential pipeline route, though in the near term, several obstacles will likely prevent Afghanistan from becoming an energy transit corridor.<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

You stress the beginning of that quote. I stress the end.

You also fail to quote the rest of that very same paragraph as well as the bottom line of the article:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Given the obstacles to development of a natural gas pipeline across Afghanistan, it seems unlikely that such an idea will make any progress in the near future, and no major Western companies have expressed interest in reviving the project. The security situation in Afghanistan is one obvious major risk, and the tensions between India and Pakistan make it unlikely that such a pipeline could be extended into India, which unlike Pakistan has sufficient immediate demand for imported natural gas to justify a project of such magnitude. Financial problems in the utility sector in India, which would be the major consumer of the natural gas, also could pose a problem.<span id='postcolor'>

The word "necessary" doesn't fit this potential pipeline's description. "Nice to have" seems more appropriate.

C'mon! Read my article!

[Guest]

'Ever so slowly, the suburbs were turned into battlefields' - Latest Robert Fisk report. He talks about evidence of large Iraqi casualties and how they are bracing for a fierce final fight.

Edit: Please leave the oil discsussion in the other thread

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 06 2003,13:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Edit: Please leave the oil discsussion in the other thread <span id='postcolor'>

You mean the weapons thread? Did you oil that pistol?

[Blake 0]

Hmm couple of screw-up's have just occured... Friendly fire incindent on special forces convoy leaving several Kurdish fighters and US special forces dead, injuring many including BBC's John Simpson.

Breaking news is that Russian embassy convoy has been attacked. Details unknown, but at the moment looking likely yet another 'friendly fire' incident.