The Dogs of War

[foxer 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 27 2003,15:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">9--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 27 2003,159)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Could an Iraqi missile have hit the market yesterday?<span id='postcolor'>

Eye witnesses said that two Tomahawk cruise missiles hit the market.  

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maj.-Gen. Stanley McChrystal said the U.S. had not targeted the Al-Shaab district in northern Baghdad, but admitted it was possible missiles had gone astray, causing the worst single incident of civilian casualties in a week of war.<span id='postcolor'>

src<span id='postcolor'>

Eye witnesses said that two Tomahawk cruise missiles hit the market.

Come on I mean really come ON

Do you think you can really believe what people say in iraq.They will say anything to make us look bad.I'm not saying it didn't happen.But i rather wait to see what the US military says.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PFC_Mike @ Mar. 27 2003,15:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Any idea on how many Iraqi KIA? I'm guessing close to 5-6000

Coalition maybe 100 KIA, although that's a very high estimate.<span id='postcolor'>

Overall? Difficult to say since we don't know how many the bombs got. As for American and British KIA, I'd put the number between 300-500 based on scraps of information that I have.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm beginning to wonder if there is a connection between all of the corpses in US uniforms and the uniforms Saddam bought for the Ba'athists to conduct massacres in. Perhaps fewer US/UK troops have been killed than Denoir, Bn880, Balschow want?

<span id='postcolor'>

All the US/UK bodies shown on Iraqi TV have been identified and confirmed by the Pentagon and the MoD.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 27 2003,16:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for American and British KIA, I'd put the number between 300-500 based on scraps of information that I have.<span id='postcolor'>

Care to substantiate such claims beyond "could have"?

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ Mar. 27 2003,16:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Come on <!--emo& I mean really come ON

Do you think you can really believe what people say in iraq.They will say anything to make us look bad.<span id='postcolor'>

I really don't think it's that important, either way.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm not saying it didn't happen.But i rather wait to see what the US military says.<span id='postcolor'>

They already responded. See my link above.

[foxer 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 27 2003,15:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ Mar. 27 2003,16:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Come on <!--emo& I mean really come ON

Do you think you can really believe what people say in iraq.They will say anything to make us look bad.<span id='postcolor'>

I really don't think it's that important, either way.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm not saying it didn't happen.But i rather wait to see what the US military says.<span id='postcolor'>

They already responded. See my link above.<span id='postcolor'>

i think i'll wait to see what they say in a month or 2.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 27 2003,15:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 27 2003,16:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for American and British KIA, I'd put the number between 300-500 based on scraps of information that I have.<span id='postcolor'>

Care to substantiate such claims beyond "could have"?<span id='postcolor'>

No. While I can present some of the information, I can't give you the sources since they are still mostly classified. And without the sources the information is irrelevant.

[theavonlady 2]

Iraq accuses Jordan.

Interestingly, I saw a pic of ammo crates found in Umm Qasr that were all marked as originating from the Jordanian military.

Doesn't mean anything, of course. Weapons smuggling is an established business in these parts.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 27 2003,16:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 27 2003,15:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 27 2003,16:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for American and British KIA, I'd put the number between 300-500 based on scraps of information that I have.<span id='postcolor'>

Care to substantiate such claims beyond "could have"?<span id='postcolor'>

No. While I can present some of the information, I can't give you the sources since they are still mostly classified. And without the sources the information is irrelevant.<span id='postcolor'>

Wll, then, time will tell.

Unless, of course, the CIA covers up the number of deaths by eliminating all of the deceased soldier's family members, friends and co-workers, so that no one will ever notice them missing.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 27 2003,15:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Unless, of course, the CIA covers up the number of deaths by eliminating all of the deceased soldier's family members, friends and co-workers, so that no one will ever notice them missing. <span id='postcolor'>

Not CIA, DOD And not by eliminating the family members but by telling them not to talk to media. It's happened before, not so long ago, in Kosovo. Once the real numbers are revealed nobody will be interested in them if the war is over. If the war is a long one on the other hand then it will come out like it did in Vietnam.

In these early phases of the war we don't know shit really apart from that we're guaranteed not to get real information.

That's not strange, and I'm not condemning it either. Just normal part of warfare.

Unless the DOD has had an unprecedented honesty attack, that is

[theavonlady 2]

Make room for the Kurds!

[PFC Mongoose 0]

My question: does the DOD (Department of Defence, right? Similar name to our own Department of National Defence. ) convicne them not to talk to media through persuasion, or coercion (or a little of both)?

[PFC Mongoose 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 27 2003,16:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Make room for the Kurds!<span id='postcolor'>

I wonder how the U.S. feels about this; assuming these aren't the non-combatants they're training at that camp.

Also, if there, hypothetically, was a large, armed Shiite rebellion in Basra, and it were successful, and they were determined to assist on the push toward Baghdad (yes, a lot of ifs; though it's a scenario that's bounced through my head a few times) I wonder how Coalition Central Command would react to that...

[Potatoman 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 27 2003,15:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's happened before, not so long ago, in Kosovo.<span id='postcolor'>

They already coerced one family (of one of the pows i think). Shown on local tv condemning the war and george bush. Shown on cnn saying how proud etc. they were

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PFC Mongoose @ Mar. 27 2003,10:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My question: does the DOD (Department of Defence, right? Similar name to our own Department of National Defence. ) convicne them not to talk to media through persuasion, or coercion (or a little of both)?<span id='postcolor'>

It's not hard at all, families of soldiers usually back Bush 100%. They say it's not right to protest... quite moronic if you ask me.

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 27 2003,15:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 27 2003,15:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 27 2003,16:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for American and British KIA, I'd put the number between 300-500 based on scraps of information that I have.<span id='postcolor'>

Care to substantiate such claims beyond "could have"?<span id='postcolor'>

No. While I can present some of the information, I can't give you the sources since they are still mostly classified. And without the sources the information is irrelevant.<span id='postcolor'>

My back-channel with 1st FSSG mortuary affairs platoon puts the USMC KIA as reported.

I'll attempt to confirm with "The Smoking Man" when he returns from planting WMD's in Baghdad.

Semper Fi

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ Mar. 27 2003,18:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'll attempt to confirm with "The Smoking Man" when he returns from planting WMD's in Baghdad.<span id='postcolor'>

Catch him before he starts running.

[Othin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ Mar. 27 2003,08:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My back-channel with 1st FSSG mortuary affairs platoon puts the USMC KIA as reported.

I'll attempt to confirm with "The Smoking Man" when he returns from planting WMD's in Baghdad.

Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'>

I'm getting the same.

All the numbers I'm getting on the Marine (and one Sailor) casualties match up with what's generally being reported on the news. This comes from both Marine contacts and what's being reported "elsewhere". I can't speak to Army/Air Force casualties though.

But this conflicts with what most of you would prefer to believe so of course it's just propaganda and lies.

[Die Alive 0]

The first U.S. airplane landed Thursday at a key Iraqi airfield, which forces informally renamed "Bush International Airport." - AP

-=Die Alive=-

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ Mar. 27 2003,17:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'll attempt to confirm with "The Smoking Man" when he returns from planting WMD's in Baghdad.<span id='postcolor'>

Sorry, I'll be tied up down there for at least another week

I'd like you to evaluate something, as a marine. I'd ask Othin to evaluate it as well, but he is a sailor... I'll leave it at that

Long Iraq Supply Lines Open Chink in U.S. Armor

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">NORTH OF NASSIRIYA, Iraq (Reuters) - Convoys of trucks hauling food and ammunition to troops spearheading the U.S.-led thrust into Iraq are looking increasingly like a chink in the invasion force's armor.

In a surprise attack witnessed by Reuters on Wednesday, a small group of Iraqis using guerrilla tactics pinned down a column of some 80 vehicles supporting U.S. Marine combat units.

Gunfire crackling from mist-shrouded trees by the roadside sent Marines dashing for cover behind vehicles, before tanks smashed through the undergrowth to hunt down the attackers.

"We couldn't see who was shooting at us," said Lance-Corporal John Grimes, 19, who dived back into his truck without firing a shot at the hidden assailants, his combat fatigues splattered with mud.

"The bullets were hitting real close, within inches of us," he told Reuters after the raid, north of the town of Nassiriya.

The attack, the first against this U.S. Marine truck platoon since the war began last Thursday, showed that a group of perhaps 10 men with assault rifles could temporarily disrupt a convoy backed by tanks, helicopters and armored personnel carriers.

There were no reports of casualties on either side during the 30 minute firefight, but the battle strained nerves among Marine drivers, many of whom had never been in combat before.

<span id='postcolor'>

There were no reports of casualties on either side during the 30 minute firefight.

Now does anybody with any slight form of military experience find this credible? 30 minutes of fire exchange up close ("The bullets were hitting real close, within inches of us") without any casualties?

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 27 2003,17:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There were no reports of casualties on either side during the 30 minute firefight.

Now does anybody with any slight form of military experience find this credible? 30 minutes of fire exchange up close ("The bullets were hitting real close, within inches of us") without any casualties?<span id='postcolor'>

i've got two explanations .... :

1 - it's star wars and both sides have jedis that master the force on one side or another and know how to create magnetic shield fields and how to stop bullets

2 - all of the men had hexoskeleton and funky blue suit and a funny looking helmet and a saber , knowing that saber is a short range weapon , the used the only thing the found was a bunch of golf balls the juournalist mistaken with 'bullets'

P.S.: i'm so sorry , but you have to understand that i'm really tired and i can't come up with anything better than that for now , this work day has eaten all my humour potential (which is pretty low generally)

[Schoeler 0]

It could very well be untrained or poorly trained militia spraying automatic weapons fire at Marines sensible enough to keep their heads down more than firing back while caught out in an exposed position. I don't find it too incredible.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 27 2003,18:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There were no reports of casualties on either side during the 30 minute firefight.

Now does anybody with any slight form of military experience find this credible? 30 minutes of fire exchange up close ("The bullets were hitting real close, within inches of us") without any casualties?<span id='postcolor'>

And yet, no matter where you look, the statistics reported jive with the official figures.

Go to the bottom of this article:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArt....2460160

It says:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Landstuhl, America's largest military hospital outside the United States, is currently treating 72 patients from "Operation Iraqi Freedom," 24 of them wounded in combat. Five are in intensive care. The hospital is expanding to 320 beds, doubling its normal capacity.<span id='postcolor'>

According to you, if there have already been 300-500 KIAs, I would expect 1000-2000 wounded.

And there was even a video on reuters showing wounded taken to a Spanish base hospital. There were about a handful of them - no more.

Other military people here dispute your numbers from their confidential sources. There's not a reporter anywhere around who can say that he's seen dozens of coalition KIAs or mass numbers of wounded that would figure with your top secret statistics.

Think again.

[Potatoman 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

There were no reports of casualties on either side during the 30 minute firefight, but the battle strained nerves among Marine drivers, many of whom had never been in combat before.

<span id='postcolor'>

Aha. So bullets landing within inches probably means "we heard a few bangs". I get the feeling that many of these "battles" are exaggerated. The "ferocious" battle for a warehouse at Um Qasr seemed to mostly consist of US soldiers firing blindly at a building from a mile away. I think many of these engagements are not that different.

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ Mar. 27 2003,18:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It could very well be untrained or poorly trained militia spraying automatic weapons fire at Marines sensible enough to keep their heads down more than firing back while caught out in an exposed position.  I don't find it too incredible.<span id='postcolor'>

30 minutes , that's long , especially under enemy fire ...

[theavonlady 2]

6--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Mar. 27 2003,196)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">30 minutes , that's long , especially under enemy fire ...<span id='postcolor'>

And the enemy was under enemy fire, too! (or was the enemy under friendly fire? )

Maybe it was 5 minutes that seemed like a lifetime, which is coincidentally around - er - 30 minutes near Nassiriyah.