Space shuttle columbia lost

[theavonlady 2]

The left wing theory is taking shape.

[Harnu 0]

They found body parts

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Harnu @ Feb. 02 2003,07:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They found body parts  <span id='postcolor'>

That was mentioned one page page and earlier in the thread. The picture of the helmet found is upsetting.

[FSPilot 0]

That helmet picture is... disturbing to say the least.

When something like that falls apart at that altitude and that speed the wreckage is going to be spread over an immense distance.

[foxer 0]

nm

[Bernadotte 0]

I've been trying to figure out the "effective" atmospheric temperature encountered by the shuttle at its mach 18 re-entry speed.  I found this molecular speed calculator (scroll down) and I've applied it in reverse.  Any of you real physicists out there should not hesitate to put me in my place.

After plugging in 14 amu for Nitrogen, the molecular temperature must be raised to 20,000 degrees C before the calculator produces a molecualr speed of 11,000 - 13,000 miles per hour.

Ouch!!  

[kegetys 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Feb. 02 2003,13:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">After plugging in 14 amu for Nitrogen, the molecular temperature must be raised to 20,000 degrees C before the calculator produces a molecualr speed of 11,000 - 13,000 miles per hour.<span id='postcolor'>

"Because it is moving at about 17,000 mph (28,000 km/h), the orbiter will hit air molecules and build up heat from friction (approximately 3000 degrees F, or 1650 degrees C). The orbiter is covered with ceramic insulating materials designed to protect it from this heat."

http://www.howstuffworks.com/space-shuttle12.htm

[Bernadotte 0]

Oh yeah...

And apparently NASA was unable to inspect this shuttle in orbit for possible damage from the insulation foam that broke off during launch.  They didn't have adequate spacewalking capabilities and there was no robotic arm with camera.  Besides they've not yet developed a technique for repairing tile damage in space, so there wasn't much point, they say.

Two Questions:

1.  If spy satellites can read an earthbound coin from space couldn't earthbound (or even U2 aircraft born) spy cameras have inspected the shuttle's left wing?

2.  And if seriously damaged couldn't a rescue craft have been sent up?  Or couldn't they have sought shelter at the ISS?

In fact, I suspect that all this may have been considered and the final decision to risk a re-entry simply came down to economics.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kegetys @ Feb. 02 2003,12:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Because it is moving at about 17,000 mph (28,000 km/h), the orbiter will hit air molecules and build up heat from friction (approximately 3000 degrees F, or 1650 degrees C). The orbiter is covered with ceramic insulating materials designed to protect it from this heat."

http://www.howstuffworks.com/space-shuttle12.htm<span id='postcolor'>

Thanks, but 1650 C is only the temperature that a freezing cold and Ammonia-cooled insulating tile will be driven to during its brief exposure to the occasional frigid air molecule encountered at ~270,000 feet.

I'm just trying to estimate the actual "apparent" temperature of a mach 18 (speed at breakup) air molecule.

[Blaegis 0]

The loss of Columbia is a truly sad event, not only because of the seven people who lost their lives yesterday but also because of its implications to mankind's space exploration program in general, which is in a really sorry state as it is.

Following the Challenger precedent space shuttle flights for 2003 (and possibly 2004) will be cancelled which, in turn, will lead to a severe delay in construction or even mothballing of the International Space Station - the Russian and European launch capacity isn't enough to maintain the construction schedule.

I just find the solemn statement of President Bush promising the continuation of the space program to be cynical and hypocritical considering the past efforts of his and all other administrations since Reagan to undermine the NASA's budget for manned space flight. At the same time you have the bloated (and growing) defense budget with totally useless and exceptionally expensive programs like the F-22 and BMD.

[foxer 0]

I just find the solemn statement of President Bush promising the continuation of the space program to be cynical and hypocritical considering the past efforts of his and all other administrations since Reagan to undermine the NASA's budget for manned space flight. At the same time you have the bloated (and growing) defense budget with totally useless and exceptionally expensive programs like the F-22 and BMD.  

It's just not the presidents though.It's most of american people,nasa isn't cheap and america people think it's an waste on some stuff they do.Which i agree with.If nasa was a world wide program they probably would do alot better.Like if every country just pay's nasa a little money.That also would probably be alot better for the world also.

I heard of a satellite that nasa is going send up in space cost 2 billion dollars to make.It's going take pictures of jupiter moons.Now thats an huge waste of tax payer money.

[5thSFG.CNUTZ 0]

I would not call it a waste but yes it could be spent in a better fashion. Spending $500 for a hammer is a waste.

[Longinius 1]

"I heard of a satellite that nasa is going send up in space cost 2 billion dollars to make.It's going take pictures of jupiter moons.Now thats an huge waste of tax payer money."

You do know thar NASA sends up satellites for other countries aswell, right? Sure America paid for that particular satellite?

[5thSFG.CNUTZ 0]

Investigators bow their heads in prayer before moving human remains found in a debris field in Hemphill, Texas.

OMG!

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Feb. 02 2003,15:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"I heard of a satellite that nasa is going send up in space cost 2 billion dollars to make.It's going take pictures of jupiter moons.Now thats an huge waste of tax payer money."

You do know thar NASA sends up satellites for other countries aswell, right? Sure America paid for that particular satellite?<span id='postcolor'>

Not only that but NASA also recieves a lot of funding internationally.

What I think a wise direction for the human space flight program would be is to join forces with Russia & Europe.

NASA is very good at the electronics and hydraulics design that is necessary for space flight.

The Russians are very good at booster technology and aerodynamics.

ESA (European Space Agency) is very good at control systems i.e computer hardware and software.

I think that a lot could be achieved by working directly together.

[Balschoiw 0]

Condolences to the families. This was a tragic accident.

But the ongoing problems with heat protection materials are

nothing new. Almost every space shuttle loses a percentage of it´s heat protection during reentry. This problem seems not to be fixed.

Anyway I find it very disturbing that media show equipment and parts of uniforms of people that died 2 hours ago. This is really disturbing. Also the immedeate terror speculations were typical for nowadays public opinion.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Feb. 02 2003,16:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anyway I find it very disturbing that media show equipment and parts of uniforms of people that died 2 hours ago.<span id='postcolor'>

I am all against gore in newspapers but I think that these are quite acceptable. Though disturbing, they are not vulgar.

Seeing that helmet is somewhat akin to the riderless horse at JFK's funeral. Maybe that's not a good comparison but the symbolism is extremely strong, IMO.

[Bernadotte 0]

In Reagan's Challenger memorial speech he mentioned:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There's a coincidence today. On this day 390 years ago, the great explorer Sir Francis Drake died aboard ship off the coast of Panama. In his lifetime the great frontiers were the oceans, and a historian later said, 'He lived by the sea, died on it, and was buried in it.' Well, today we can say of the Challenger crew: Their dedication was, like Drake's, complete.<span id='postcolor'>

This reminded me of the early perils faced by explorers such as the fear of sailing off the edge of the earth and being devoured by fire and dragons.  It made me wonder how anyone ever dared to reach distant shores when they could have remained safely at home instead.

Score one for the dragons.

[cybrid 0]

So was there any one main splat down spot, or is it fagments all over an enourmous area? I never heard anything on that.

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (cybrid @ Feb. 02 2003,22:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So was there any one main splat down spot, or is it fagments all over an enourmous area?  I never heard anything on that.<span id='postcolor'>

It's a 200 mile long corridor of fragments and pieces.  From what I have heard, they expect that debris in one forested area will likely turn up for years.

Its going to be a long and difficult job gathering it all up.

edit:

At the risk of opening myself up to all sorts of dumbass comments from the peanut gallery:

I've been a space buff for as long as I can remember.  A lot of things in my life are just a blurr, but I can remember, like it was yesterday, the launch and landing of STS-01.  I can remember what it was like outside as I watched Columbia blast into space on a pillar of smoke and fire.  I remember the awe, and to this day I feel its echoes every time I watch a Shuttle launch.  For many youger types, the Shuttle is really something workaday.. a common occurance.  And as such not really as awe inspiring as it maybe should be.

The 7 men and women of the Columbia crew arent heroes.  They accepted the risks of their chosen professions like any of us do.  They are worth no more than anyone else who might die in an accident.  But they represent the best and brightest.  All highly trained and educated, they are pioneers and explorers in addition to being scientists and pilots.   And because they take the lead into a new frontier, they deserve our respect and thoughts when something like this happens.

And so I mourn for these seven people a little more than for the many other folks that may have died the same day... because they were in pursuit of something that makes us all better.

There is a poem that I think fits rather well:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

High Flight

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;

Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there

I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue,

I've topped the windswept heights with easy grace

Where never lark, or even eagle flew -

And, while with silent lifting mind I've trod

The high unsurpassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand and touched the face of God.

Pilot Officer Gillespie Magee

No 412 squadron, RCAF

Killed 11 December 1941

<span id='postcolor'>

[Wilco 944]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (5thSFG.CNUTZ @ Feb. 02 2003,15:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Investigators bow their heads in prayer before moving human remains found in a debris field in Hemphill, Texas.

OMG!  <span id='postcolor'>

I'll never be the same

[ale2999 0]

Condolences to the families. When I saw it I couldnt believe it. It is very unfortunate. May God welcome them.

[Stag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Feb. 02 2003,01:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (cybrid @ Feb. 02 2003,22:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So was there any one main splat down spot, or is it fagments all over an enourmous area?  I never heard anything on that.<span id='postcolor'>

It's a 200 mile long corridor of fragments and pieces.  From what I have heard, they expect that debris in one forested area will likely turn up for years.

Its going to be a long and difficult job gathering it all up.

edit:

At the risk of opening myself up to all sorts of dumbass comments from the peanut gallery:

I've been a space buff for as long as I can remember.  A lot of things in my life are just a blurr, but I can remember, like it was yesterday, the launch and landing of STS-01.  I can remember what it was like outside as I watched Columbia blast into space on a pillar of smoke and fire.  I remember the awe, and to this day I feel its echoes every time I watch a Shuttle launch.  For many youger types, the Shuttle is really something workaday.. a common occurance.  And as such not really as awe inspiring as it maybe should be.

The 7 men and women of the Columbia crew arent heroes.  They accepted the risks of their chosen professions like any of us do.  They are worth no more than anyone else who might die in an accident.  But they represent the best and brightest.  All highly trained and educated, they are pioneers and explorers in addition to being scientists and pilots.   And because they take the lead into a new frontier, they deserve our respect and thoughts when something like this happens.

And so I mourn for these seven people a little more than for the many other folks that may have died the same day... because they were in pursuit of something that makes us all better.

There is a poem that I think fits rather well:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

High Flight

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;

Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there

I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue,

I've topped the windswept heights with easy grace

Where never lark, or even eagle flew -

And, while with silent lifting mind I've trod

The high unsurpassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand and touched the face of God.

Pilot Officer Gillespie Magee

No 412 squadron, RCAF

Killed 11 December 1941

<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

Since it happened, I've been trying to  find the words to say that.

The industrial aspects of the space programme are already with us. People question if the investment in pure research is worth it.

Pure research is an investment in the future. Maybe the whole space program will turn out to be a dead end.

But just short of 100 hundred years ago by months, in a place called Kittyhawk, something happened which changed the World forever, and I'm sure that any people that watched that totally impractical device stumble into the sky with a man aboard wondered if it would ever be anything more than a very elaborate way to commit suicide.

But look where it's taken mankind.

S! Apollo 1, Soyuz 11, Challenger, and Columbia.

Building bridges to places the rest of us can only dream about.

[canukausiuka 1]

This carries a lot of weight here, too. I didn't know about it until Sat. evening, when my folks got home and told me. But just two weeks before, I had been at Stennis Space Center, the first stop on the returning shuttle's tour... I met them, shook their hands, talked with them. It's unreal, really... those four men I met that day could very well have been on the Columbia...

My prayers and condolences out to the crews and their families. It's a sad time for everone.

[theavonlady 2]

Some tough questions for NASA.