Space shuttle columbia lost

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Feb. 01 2003,22:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Feb. 01 2003,23:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">'Aerodynamics May Explain Space Shuttle Breakup'<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

Truly all speculation at this point.<span id='postcolor'>

Pretty much... just like when Challenger was lost.

I would hope that the fellows last supposition doesnt come true... that the space program is essentially shelved for two years while they try to figure out what has happened.

I would rather see it as a wake up call that the US space program needs and influx of capital to revive things like the X-33, that are more advanced than the shuttle.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Feb. 01 2003,23:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Pretty much... just like when Challenger was lost.<span id='postcolor'>

There, however, the evidence was captured on film at liftoff.

[Broileri 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Goeth[kyllikki] @ Feb. 01 2003,20:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wilco @ Feb. 01 2003,19:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Goeth[kyllikki] @ Feb. 01 2003,19:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Couple of people dead, so what? What is this big grief s..t.<span id='postcolor'>

Alright then, 6 of your family dies, so what....nobody cares about your losses.  That's how you say it.<span id='postcolor'>

Exactly. People die everyday and i don´t see a reason why this should be any different and special occasion. If you feel extra pain in this case maybe you sould put up dead astronauts foundation or something.<span id='postcolor'>

Goeth is right, of course. And all wrong. It's interesting how differently people feel about things like this.

How is someone's death more important than somebody else's? Shouldn't be, despite what they died "for" or how futile was their death. But that's not how the world runs.

Remember Princess Diana's death? It was a very big thing at least in this part of the world. For months before that the head news had been about the mass murders in Algeria (entire villagefuls of people having their throats cut open and thrown into a well). I don't know how many noticed, or if it was different elsewhere in the world, but the instant she got killed there was nothing in the news for days but the accident - but that didn't mean the killings would have paused for awhile in Algeria so the world could mourn Diana's death. It meant the news agencies carefully considered how important did people think the death of a celebrity was compared to the deaths of Algerian civilians. And they did well, of course it was Diana's death people wanted to know about.

Surely a tragedy, but how did a fatal car accident become more important than the murders of civilians?

It was all over the news; the general public had read about Diana in the tabloids and she felt like a real person, someone everybody knew; there was loads of film material from the accident. There was no film from Algeria (it was too dangerous for anybody to get there), people hardly knew where the place was (somewhere in Africa, a whole other continent); nobody knew the people who were getting killed. You only read and heard about it so it almost felt like a rumour.

The astronauts are something of national heros in the US. We saw the shuttle breaking apart in the sky. The strong reactions about Columbia in this forum are all but uncomprehensible.

I apologize if my viewpoint seems too cynical to someone. My condolences to anybody feeling involved with the tragedy.

[FSPilot 0]

This isn't really about 7 people dying, it's a giant setback for NASA, the worldwide space community, as well as Israel. Things are going to change because of this. So it isn't just about 7 people dying.

[Bernadotte 0]

Two of the 3 possibilities offered in denoir's post would result in sudden catastrophic breakup.  Aerodynamic and engine failure would happen with little or no warning.

Only the burnthrough scenario might produce the sensor cutoffs or high temp readings that were observed in the final minutes.  Once aerodynamic symmetry was lost, the vehicle would then have tumbled/rolled and exposed the vulnerable topside to a mach 18 airstream.

By the way, I don't think this mission took them to the space station, did it?  I keep wondering if they ever had an option to reach it had they been aware of a burn through threat before commencing their return.

[5thSFG.CNUTZ 0]

I don't recall but did anyone else say that the lives of other who died in other horrible acts are less important than the 7 who died today? I think not. However, most people grieve for people if they have some what of a connection too but that does not mean the others are less important. Would you grieve more for a family member than a stranger? I bet you would.

[Bernadotte 0]

Apparently, the crew was required to film and photograph the main fuel tank during separation so that NASA could later inspect the images to see were insulation pieces may have fallen off during launch.  It boggles my mind that, in this age, none of those images were shot with digital cameras so that they could be transmitted back before return.  All that evidence was lost.

[Milkman 1]

This wasn't a space station flight. It was a scientific expieriment. It was carrying important findings that we will probaly never know about now. Although they have warned us people here in texas to stay away from wreakage, because it could be contaminated with Nuclear, Biological, Chemical, although it is unlikley after being boiled at thousands of degrees in the atmospere. Its still a good idea to stay away though.

[brgnorway 0]

edit .....

[5thSFG.CNUTZ 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (brgnorway @ Feb. 01 2003,18:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sgt. Milkman @ Feb. 01 2003,23:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

It's sad that people die in accidents - in US, Africa, Iraq etc.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Although they have warned us people here in texas to stay away from wreakage, because it could be contaminated with Nuclear, Biological, Chemical, although it is unlikley after being boiled at thousands of degrees in the atmospere. Its still a good idea to stay away though.<span id='postcolor'>

Are you saying NASA is a bigger threat than Saddam then.....<span id='postcolor'>

They were worried about the jet fuel. Not Biological or nuclear stuff.

BG, I hope you are joking.

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (5thSFG.CNUTZ @ Feb. 02 2003,00:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BG, I hope you are joking. <span id='postcolor'>

I was trying to be ironic - maybe it's not the right time or place for it, sorry! I'll edit my former post.

[5thSFG.CNUTZ 0]

No need to edit, just wanted to make sure your were not serious.

[Renagade 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (5thSFG.CNUTZ @ Feb. 02 2003,00:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (brgnorway @ Feb. 01 2003,18:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sgt. Milkman @ Feb. 01 2003,23:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

It's sad that people die in accidents - in US, Africa, Iraq etc.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Although they have warned us people here in texas to stay away from wreakage, because it could be contaminated with Nuclear, Biological, Chemical, although it is unlikley after being boiled at thousands of degrees in the atmospere. Its still a good idea to stay away though.<span id='postcolor'>

Are you saying NASA is a bigger threat than Saddam then.....<span id='postcolor'>

They were worried about the jet fuel.  Not Biological or nuclear stuff.  

BG, I hope you are joking. <span id='postcolor'>

Last time i checked jet fuel was just hydrogen adn oxygen mix unless its the experiment equipment they are on about.

Couldn`t they use robots for doing experiments that does not require a person and control it from a satellite in order to limit any loss of life through accidents or reduce them at least?

ps.the diana incident was completely surreal and very annoying.

[PHY_Hawkeye 0]

There's no Jet fuel on the Orbiter.

The Orbital Manuvering System (OMS)on the Orbiter is fueled by Monomethyl Hydrazine oxidized by Nitrogen Tetroxide. These substances are highley toxic, thats what the warning is against.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Does anybody know if the Russians have had any accidents with their Buran shuttles?<span id='postcolor'>

None that I'm aware of, I beleive that only two flights were ever made and both of them were remotely controlled.

It's unfortunate that this happened, I've been interested in the space program since I was very young and it's a sad thing to see accidents like this happen. My condolences go out to the families.

It's also unfortunate to see some very callous people post here. As my parents told me when I was young: 'If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say it.'

Tyler

[pathfinder 0]

Is anyone familiar with the X PRIZE? Maybe NASA should look into a similar program to replace their aging shuttles.

www.xprize.com

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Feb. 02 2003,01:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's also unfortunate to see some very callous people post here.<span id='postcolor'>

Yup.  Some folks might have trouble dealing with their own emotions, but that's cool.  It's just human.

However, a few folks in this thread seem to have had difficulties dealing with other people's emotions.  That's just pathetic.  Especially when they try to prescribe when someone else should or shouldn't feel something.  Scary.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

Renegade said:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">7 ppl died which is sad but they knew what they were they were getting into and probably were vapourized not having the guts squished out of them in a wreck of metal or burned alive. <span id='postcolor'>

What's that you say? Vapourised?

From MSNBC news.

In Hemphill, near the Louisiana line, hospital employee Mike Gibbs reported finding what appeared to be a charred torso, thigh bone and skull on a rural road near what was believed to be other debris. Billy Smith, a Texas Department of Public Safety spokesman, confirmed the find. He said authorities had roped off the area and were collecting evidence.

Tyler

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Feb. 02 2003,01:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Feb. 02 2003,01:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's also unfortunate to see some very callous people post here.<span id='postcolor'>

Yup.  Some folks might have trouble dealing with their own emotions, but that's cool.  It's just human.

However, a few folks in this thread seem to have had difficulties dealing with other people's emotions.  That's just pathetic.  Especially when they try to prescribe when someone else should or shouldn't feel something.  Scary.<span id='postcolor'>

I haven't seen any such examples?

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I haven't seen any such examples?<span id='postcolor'>

Look back a few pages.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Goeth[kyllikki] @ Feb. 01 2003,19:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">People die everyday and i don´t see a reason why this should be any different and special occasion. If you feel extra pain in this case maybe you should put up dead astronauts foundation or something.<span id='postcolor'>

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Feb. 02 2003,02:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Goeth[kyllikki] @ Feb. 01 2003,19:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">People die everyday and i don´t see a reason why this should be any different and special occasion. If you feel extra pain in this case maybe you should put up dead astronauts foundation or something.<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

I found some other examples. The one you are quotiong is not realy that bad - but a bit distasteful perhaps.

Clearly, I should have read through the whole of the thread first maybe - but I'm at work right now and it's hard to find time enough.

Let it rest!

[FSPilot 0]

If you want my slightly-educated opinion, the wing probably was dented by that piece of foam that broke off during launch. At the incredible speeds the shuttle reaches during re-entry the drag caused by the dent would probably of been enough to rip the wing off which could have started the disintegration of the ship. Even if it was a very small dent it would of been enough at those high speeds.

That is, if the foam struck the leading edge of the wing. If it struck the top (which doesn't make much since to me, since it's hard to drop something onto a vertical surface) of the wing it might not of done anything. Unless the immense heat did something.

But that's just me speculating from what I've heard int his thread, I don't know the first thing about what actually happened during the launch, and my knowledge of aerodynamics is very basic.

[Tovarish 0]

Sad . Woke up this morning and heard about it. Strange thing is I just did a 9 hour shift at work and didn't hear anyone mention a single word about it. Call me irrational too, but I'm always saddened when I hear of an Astronaut or Cosmonaut who died in spaceflight, in my opinion they're all heroes.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Does anybody know if the Russians have had any accidents with their Buran shuttles?

<span id='postcolor'>

Nope, in fact I don't believe they've ever flown them manned (at least not back in the days of the USSR). I remember watching the first one land  by remote control on TV when I was a kid. The only similar accident to this that I know of was Soyuz 11:

"1971

June 6–30, Soyuz 11: three cosmonauts, Georgi T. Dolrovolsky, Vladislav N. Volkov, and Viktor I. Patsayev, found dead in the craft after its automatic landing. Apparent cause of death was loss of pressurization in the space craft during reentry into the earth's atmosphere."

That must have been creepy for the recovery team...seeing the craft land properly and opening the capsule to find three bodies...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">After the Soviet Union collapsed the program was shut down, but they have reopened it now.

<span id='postcolor'>

Really?   I had no idea it had been reopened, I had always thought it was a damn shame that Buran was mothballed.

[SKULLS_Viper 0]

Truely a sad day.