Anyone hear the news?

[IceFire 0]

Anyone hear anything about the new cloned human baby that was born a few days ago?

I'm surprised noone else mentioned it on the forum? Maybe I am just misinformed? Anyone else hear anything?

If it did happen I'm surprised noone has really mentioned it in the news. This could be really BIG.

[IceFire 0]

Ok, just found the article. It's on the main page of CNN.com

The "creators" of this new clone are the leaders of a religious sect who believe they are descendants from extraterrestrials.

They apparently dismiss any concerns of the future health of the child saying that it may very well might just grow up healthy and that there is no reason to worry.

I think this is VERY worrysome and that something should be done before this starts happening without any control.

[PiNs_Da_Smoka 0]

I was actually just going to make a post about this. Some people don't believe it for some reason. Personally i see no reason not to. Granted the people doing it are nutballs, but i still find it very viable. Makes ya think, movies like Gattaca aren't that far off, are they?

[IceFire 0]

Could someone post a link to the article? Further reading in the article tells that this group eventually wants to use human cloning to create human bodies for brain transplants to achieve immortality. They say "It's a good step, but my ultimate goal is to give humanity eternal life through cloning".

This is the first time this group has even attempted cloning. Not even on a rabbit of mouse before this.

[blackdog~ 0]

AHHH ALIENS!!!

AHHH CLONES!!!

I bet Dick Chaney is now in an "undisclosed location" as of this announcement.

[R. Gerschwarzenge 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ Dec. 28 2002,11:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Further reading in the article tells that this group eventually wants to use human cloning to create human bodies for brain transplants to achieve immortality.<span id='postcolor'>

I wonder how they plan to copy their memories to the new brains.

[IceFire 0]

I don't know. But that's what they are planning to do by creating and manipulating human life.

[IceFire 0]

Oh, and they don't plan on "transferring" memories to new brains.

They said that they wanted to use new cloned bodies by using them as hosts to transfer their brains to the new bodies. Thus in theory giving one immortality.

I don't care what they are doing. It is still horrible. These freaks should be stopped and this practice should not be happening.

[KingBeast 0]

Putting an old brain into a new body wont make them immortal :/ The brains will still get old, they will forget things, have strokes etc.

I am sceptical as to whether or not these people have cloned a human, very sceptical. And if they have, its terrible news that such a bunch of nuts are the first to do it, and that they plan on using it in a rather perverse way.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

I doubt they have.

[Guest]

LOL, why all the panic IceFire? We have a lot of naturally cloned people in the world, namely all identical twins.

[IceFire 0]

There's a difference. Twins that are born naturally are happening without the prodding of man.

I think that manipulating the fundamentals of human or ANY life is arrogant, wrong, and dangerous.

Animal life is the result of thousands of years of natural evolution. We shouln't mess around with such things that could have very serious results. Should we really manipulate what it is that makes us what we are?

But not only is my concern just about one human clone (which is still very worrysome to me) it is even enhanced with the knowledge of what these wackos want to do with this.

[cam0flage 0]

I loved the way Pravda reported this news in the beginning of this month: "Clone Wars to begin in December" I guess they were right ... or not. Too bad I was unable to find the article.

[Necromancer- 0]

Anything man thinks of will be done.

[IceFire 0]

Camoflage, you want to find the article.

Type www.cnn.com in your web browser. On that page to the right is a big box that has the story in it.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ Dec. 28 2002,12:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There's a difference.  Twins that are born naturally are happening without the prodding of man.

I think that manipulating the fundamentals of human or ANY life is arrogant, wrong, and dangerous.

Animal life is the result of thousands of years of natural evolution.   We shouln't mess around with such things that could have very serious results.    Should we really manipulate what it is that makes us what we are?

But not only is my concern just about one human clone (which is still very worrysome to me) it is even enhanced with the knowledge of what these wackos want to do with this.<span id='postcolor'>

Cloning is 1:1 replication of the DNA in the gamete, so its exactly the same thing as creating an identical twin.

The bad part about this news is that I doubt that they have done it successfully. Cloned animals have had all sorts of problems because the technology isn't perfected yet. There is still a lot that we don't know.

Otherwise I am all for genetical engineering as long as it is researched properly.

[IceFire 0]

Denoir, yeah, I know it is identical.

But have you even read about what these people want to do with this?

Even in the naming of the new cloned baby reflects their mentality in how they identify the new child.  

Calling it "Eve" as in the eve of a new age of cloning.  That is how the child will have to look at herself as she grows up.

My primary problem with genetic engineering is in principle.

We should NOT manipulate our generic makeup no matter HOW MUCH we think we have got it safe or proven.

Playing with "who we are" and what makes us up as human beings is something we are not supposed to be doing. Or with any other life form.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ Dec. 28 2002,12:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But have you even read about what these people want to do with this?

Even in the naming of the new cloned baby reflects their mentality in how they identify the new child.  

Calling it "Eve" as in the eve of a new age of cloning.  That is how the child will have to look at herself as she grows up.<span id='postcolor'>

I think it is "Eve" as in "Adam and Eve", but never mind. I agree that religious extremists doing genetical engineering can't be really good.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My primary problem with genetic engineering is in principle.

We should NOT manipulate our generic makeup no matter HOW MUCH we think we have got it safe or proven.

<span id='postcolor'>

I disagree there. I think we should research it and use it. Its not entirely new either. We have since the old Egyptians been playing with cross-breeding plants and animals. I don't see the reason why we shouldn't continue doing this with more sophisticated methods.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Playing with "who we are" and what makes us up as human beings is something we are not supposed to be doing. Or with any other life form<span id='postcolor'>

Says who? I think we indeed are "supposed" to do it since we are doing it.

[morbid 0]

While I do think cloning humans is wrong 9there is little reason for it, if any at all ) I do believe genetic research is extremely improtant.

It's quite possible that sometime in the future it will be possible to eliminate many conditions a person might be genticly predisposed to before birth. This elimination of such conditions is far better than simply aborting an embryo because it has such a condition, is it not?

Genetic manipulation could perhaps even eventually be used to eliminate less threatening conditions such as poor eyesight.

I would much rather have I had my eyesight corrected before I was born with a little gene therapy or something than have to wait till my cataracts turns me blind when I'm 40.

[IceFire 0]

Denior,

How can you reason that we are "supposed to do it" just because we "are" doing it?

Do you actually believe that reasoning?

And as for the ancient Egyptiens. They were manipulating life, but only by natural means of sex. Nature takes over the rest of the way.

Not like manually manipulating genes in a lab.

[Guest]

I think that the problem today is that there is no real political will to deal with it. Since this obviously is an important ethical question, society should deal with it.

The laws that the Bush administration came with are disasetrous IMO. They state that only private corporations may do stem cell research and genetical engineering on the human genome. Government institutions have a ban on doing that. It should be exactly the opposite. That's why you now get religious fanatics without any control doing something that should be investigated properly by the society (represented by the state and the government).

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ Dec. 28 2002,12:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How can you reason that we are "supposed to do it" just because we "are" doing it?

Do you actually believe that reasoning?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes. We came to this point by natural evolution. Humans evolved to this point where we genetically engineer stuff through natural evolution. Therefor it's natural.

[IceFire 0]

Just as humans have developed and used other technologies?

If you want to use that argument, then every technology that people developed are supposed to be used.

This about nuclear bombs? We have developped them, now that is a good reason to always just go around using them.

When nuclear power was being developed, scienctists knew about the biproduct on nuclear waste, yet they just thought that in the future someone would probably come along and figure out a way to dispose of the stuff.

Here we are, with no solution. And they rationalized that it would be alright because someone probably will come around and fix it up in the future.

We still cannot excuse that biproduct. So it is bad.

How can you argue that just because we develop a technology, that is must be what we are "supposed to do"?

[IceFire 0]

My point is that just because humans have discovered something, doesn't automatically make it alright or ok.

There are some things that we should not do even though it is possible.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ Dec. 28 2002,13:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How can you argue that just because we develop a technology, that is must be what we are "supposed to do"?<span id='postcolor'>

While it indeed is a weak foundation, it still beats an unmotivated "we're not supposed to do that".