The shit has hit the fan!

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Dec. 27 2002,07:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Since you have addressed me personally<span id='postcolor'>

So, your his CO?

[Warin 0]

Yet again, words of wisdom from SirLoins. Shouldnt be surprised .

So I suppose that Laz isnt allowed to have an opinion about the motivation behind his call up? He's supposed to just blindly go and do what he is told without expressing an opinion about the why and what of the actions that may come? Last time I heard a group of soldiers hiding behind an 'I did what I was told' attitude, they were on trial in Nuremburg

Nothing says he has to like the current foreign policy of his nation. What he does have to do (And the impression I get is he WILL do) is serve as he has pledged to. And being able to do that in the face of thinking that the man he calls Commander in Cheif is a jackass (an opinion shared by a great many people both inside and outside the US) is actually a pretty good thing.

Just remember, not agreeing with President Bush doesnt make someone a coward, nor does it make them wrong. Unless you are some sort of sanctimonious prick who believes that his opinion is the only one of truth and quality. And there is no one here like that, is there??

[Frisbee 0]

I hope your duty ends soon and you can go back home to your family...

Take care Lazarus

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">'I did what I was told' <span id='postcolor'>

Soldiers do what they're told, it's not B.S., it's the truth. (Within reason) You can be ordered to run across a minefield in the pursuit of an enemy, but you don't have to listen when someone tells you to execute someone.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So I suppose that Laz isnt allowed to have an opinion about the motivation behind his call up? <span id='postcolor'>

Less of an opinion, more of a whining session. If he didn't want to serve overseas, then he shouldn't have joined the Army. Sure his life has been put on hold because he's been called up, but I'm sure he knew it could happen when he put pen to paper.

Either way, I hope Lazarus returns in one functional piece.

Tyler

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Dec. 27 2002,06:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">'I did what I was told' <span id='postcolor'>

Soldiers do what they're told, it's not B.S., it's the truth. (Within reason) You can be ordered to run across a minefield in the pursuit of an enemy, but you don't have to listen when someone tells you to execute someone.<span id='postcolor'>

And if you are on the losing side, and 'I did what I told' involves questionable actions, you become a war criminal.

I am not saying that Laz is going to be called on to do any such questionable things.  And I am not implying the US will be defeated.  

It just pisses me off that one man expresses his frustration and anger at being pulled away from his family and his education for something he finds objectionable, and he's jumped on by some Republican yes man who takes him to task for not being 100% behind Shrub and Gulf War version 2.0.  No where in his rant did I once see 'I am afraid to go' or 'I wont go'.  And yes, Lazarus did come off as a little whiney

[FSPilot 0]

I think his point was that he shouldn't whine about being sent off to war.  He knew it was going to happen when he signed up.

I'm not saying I agree with it or not, that's just my interpretation.

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Dec. 27 2002,07:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think his point was that he shouldn't whine about being sent off to war.  He knew it was going to happen when he signed up.

I'm not saying I agree with it or not, that's just my interpretation.<span id='postcolor'>

I'd bet that the vast majority of folks in the National Guard dont sign up thinking 'I am going to get to go to war'. I suspect a goodly portion do it as a way to get some discipline into their lives, learn a trade, and make money to go to school. Yes, you do risk having to go off and fight... and that's a risk you have to take. But it doesnt mean he cant whine about possibly being sent off to a conflict he finds objectionable. And I'd like to see a recent opinion poll. Considering how little the UN inspectors are turning up, and the apparent lack of response from US 'intelligence' sources when asked for some direction, I wonder how many Americans still think a war is needed.

[hellfish6 7]

As a former US Army infantryman, active duty and national guard, with service in Kuwait, I can sympathize with Lazarus. And SirLoin, you are full of shit.

This war (was there EVER any doubt that there would be another war with Iraq?) has nothing to do with higher moral values, nothing to do with saving the Iraqi people from a tyrant.. nothing. It's about oil.

Why? Because the US government, and indeed the US leadership, came to their wealth and power through oil. Because it is easier for the US to send soldiers to secure oil than it is for Americans to stop buying Sports Utility Vehicles (Hummer H2! 12 miles per gallon!.

This war is far, FAR from just. WE gave Saddam the know-how and financed the equipment for the weapons of mass destruction we now decry as being illegal. We looked the other way when he gassed the Iranians and his own Kurds. And now, now of all times, we're going to war? Because he's going to nuke us? Please.

I have no doubt that we will win the war, and quickly. We've got a fantastic military the likes of which I doubt even God has seen. My only hope is that Saddam doesn't think that he can get away with using weapons of mass destruction because he has nothing to lose. We'll kill him, no doubt (but then again, we said we'd kill Bin Laden too, didn't we?) but how many Americans will he atomize or gas before that?

Good luck to you, Lazarus. Keep your head down. I don't think you'll be heading to the Gulf but be careful anyways.

And, yes, Fuck Dubya. Fuck the whole goddamned Republican party and the pathetic democrats who went along with them.

[FSPilot 0]

I think the fact that the UN inspection team has an S&M expert on their staff sort of says stuff about the type of operation they're running. I've just heard some bad things about them is all.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why? Because the US government, and indeed the US leadership, came to their wealth and power through oil. Because it is easier for the US to send soldiers to secure oil than it is for Americans to stop buying Sports Utility Vehicles <span id='postcolor'>

That, and the fact that the U.S. depends far more on international oil today than it did 30 years ago. The U.S. can't drill as much as it used to on it's soil anymore. With all the environmental constraints, it isn't profitable for smaller companies to drill. You can thank the environmentalists for that one.

WAY OT, I know, but it had to be said.

Tyler

[Tex -USMC- 0]

As I recall, along with the obligation to die, a soldier gets the right to bitch. I rather doubt his outfit will be sent into combat, seeing as how the Pentagon has recently become so obsessed with high-speed low-drag units. Just because I guy doesn't head off to possible death with a grin on his face is no reason to be insulting. That is all.

[FallenPaladin 0]

Laz, take care.

[NavyEEL 0]

suck it up and fulfill your responsibility. you're a soldier/sailor/marine, not a politician. your job is to carry out the nation's needs, not question and bitch about them.

[Jester983 0]

Good luck laz. We shall keep you in are prayers.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Dec. 27 2002,08:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think the fact that the UN inspection team has an S&M expert on their staff sort of says stuff about the type of operation they're running.<span id='postcolor'>

What is "S&M"?

Is this guy on the team?

[shadow] stupid image removed

[Tex -USMC- 0]

*falls out of chair laughing*

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hellfish6 @ Dec. 27 2002,01:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have no doubt that we will win the war, and quickly. We've got a fantastic military the likes of which I doubt even God has seen.<span id='postcolor'>

Did you want to place a bet?

Anyway, without swearing and sugar coating this whole mess that's happening to Laz., no one forced Laz. to join up as far as I know, we all take some risks in our life, hoping we will win out. Some get lucky, some do not, but one risk can be greater than another... usually the greater the risk the greater the reward, joining up can bring the reward without the risk, but not this time. (actually I think he will be fine, that's my feeling)

Personally I have taken my risks, which I will not explain, been extremely lucky, but I go by my "gutt feeling" on many situations, so there is no way to put that in some sort of equation for others to use. (i think that was useless to say) So what I mean specifically is: You have to know what you are getting your self into, and closing your eyes will not change any punishment that can be foreseen.

On another hand, life can deal you some cards which can keep you planted in a circumstance or condition inevitably, such as not being able to keep it all together if you had to quit the service. These cards may not be visible to anyone but yourself, and you may have to live with it. It is quite easy to judge someone off the top, be the truth of the matter is one person can not judge another very well, unless they spent thier life in the other persons shoes.

If you look very closely, everything can seem wrong. If you look even closer, you will see there is a good reason for it.

That ends bn880's philosophy session, come back next week, same time, same room. (depending on universal conditions)

[shadow 6]

as always, Avon have to ruin a perfectly good thread with stupid images that has nothing to do with the topic

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Shadow @ Dec. 27 2002,10:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">as always, Avon have to ruin a perfectly good thread with stupid images that has nothing to do with the topic <span id='postcolor'>

Read the first line of my post, oh short sited one!

[dayglow 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Dec. 26 2002,23:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why? Because the US government, and indeed the US leadership, came to their wealth and power through oil. Because it is easier for the US to send soldiers to secure oil than it is for Americans to stop buying Sports Utility Vehicles <span id='postcolor'>

That, and the fact that the U.S. depends far more on international oil today than it did 30 years ago. The U.S. can't drill as much as it used to on it's soil anymore. With all the environmental constraints, it isn't profitable for smaller companies to drill. You can thank the environmentalists for that one.

WAY OT, I know, but it had to be said.

Tyler<span id='postcolor'>

Do you all really think it's about oil and that's it? Really if USA wants Iraq's oil the eaiest way would be to announce after careful inspection Iraq does not have any WMD, increase aid and lift the embargo. Iraq could then dump it's oil into the US market nice and cheap. There is a lot more than that.

COLINMAN

[ralphwiggum 6]

this thread is about saying farewell to Lazarus long, not about current Iraq situation. please stay on topic. as i said earlier, whoever blatantly goes against this should not seek mercy from me.

[Longinius 1]

"I think the fact that the UN inspection team has an S&M expert on their staff sort of says stuff about the type of operation they're running. I've just heard some bad things about them is all."

What does a persons sexual preference have to do with their proffesionalism, skill and devotion to duty? Oh yeah, I forgot, unless you fit the American Mold you must surely be worthless...

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Dec. 27 2002,11:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"I think the fact that the UN inspection team has an S&M expert on their staff sort of says stuff about the type of operation they're running.  I've just heard some bad things about them is all."

What does a persons sexual preference have to do with their proffesionalism, skill and devotion to duty? Oh yeah, I forgot, unless you fit the American Mold â„¢ you must surely be worthless...<span id='postcolor'>

You mean S&M really means S&M here? Anyone got a link about the UN team's members and details like this?

Actually, and S&M expert might be useful in Iraq. If he finds something, either the Iraqis will beat the hell out of him or he can stay for the US invasion. Either way, he'll enjoy it.

Oh, before I forget, farewell Lazarus Long, even though you don't like my neck of the woods.

[Longinius 1]

"You mean S&M really means S&M here? Anyone got a link about the UN team's members and details like this?"

Yeah, S&M like in bondage....the whole deal. Aparantly one of the guys is some kind of leading individual in the area. I still dont see the relevance in it though. It has nothing to do with his ability to find (or not finding) WMD's.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Longinius, thank you for contributing to closure of this topic despite repeated warnings.