The Iraq Thread

[bn880 5]

So who do you think is telling the truth there, a cousin or the doctor? Man, this smells of shit...

[ralphwiggum 6]

who knows. according to you guys US gov't always lies, so doctors in Germany were lying? but then again, all americans lie, so the cousin is lying?

denoir's argument was that she was neither stabbed nor shot and i pointed out that it cannot be said definitively.

[bn880 5]

Yep, but someone is making up some bullshit, their testimony doesn't match. YET.

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ April 17 2003,18:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">San Antonio

This still relates to Iraq and its after effects.

This just makes me sad and angry on a multitude of levels. San Antonio is kinda my "hometown" (for being a military brat), and San Antonio has always been heavily geared around the military, and proudly so. San Antonio  used to have four military bases, two (I think) being still open (that being Randolph AFB...Air Force training and setting of the 1932 first Best Picture winner "Wings", and Lackland...major Basic center), while Kelly being privatized, USAA, a major military insurance company, and a number of other military oriented business.

Whats next? Shouting "Baby killers" again?<span id='postcolor'>

A fellow Guardsman of mine was attacked recently by "peace" protestors in my state. Ironic isn't it?

[Guest]

Something very strange is going on here ...hmmmm

[ebud 18]

LOL. My co-workers just wondered why the hell I just fell off my chair! That's pretty good

[bn880 5]

No Problem

EDIT: Denoir, your little clip is in Position #72 already.

[ran 0]

http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612205369

[Jinef 2]

Very funny you guys.

Btw. I'm sure Medics are meant to be non combatants according to the Geneva convetion, if so why did the US soldiers shoot at the guy trying to hand Jessica Lynch back to them?

[foxer 0]

Probably because he didn't have a big red cross on him(helmet,armpatch) ? Maybe he was holding a weapon ? Maybe US soldiers didn't know if he had an c4 vest on ? Or maybe it didn't really happen.

[Schoeler 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ April 18 2003,19:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ April 17 2003,18:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">San Antonio

This still relates to Iraq and its after effects.

This just makes me sad and angry on a multitude of levels. San Antonio is kinda my "hometown" (for being a military brat), and San Antonio has always been heavily geared around the military, and proudly so. San Antonio  used to have four military bases, two (I think) being still open (that being Randolph AFB...Air Force training and setting of the 1932 first Best Picture winner "Wings", and Lackland...major Basic center), while Kelly being privatized, USAA, a major military insurance company, and a number of other military oriented business.

Whats next? Shouting "Baby killers" again?<span id='postcolor'>

A fellow Guardsman of mine was attacked recently by "peace" protestors in my state. Ironic isn't it?<span id='postcolor'>

You want to see ironic?  Have a look at these 2 poor dumb twits:

I'd say they are a bit confused.

[Ludovico Technique 0]

Well not sure if anybody has seen this yet, but here's the pic just so any that missed it can have a look. Seems that whole Berlin wall style statue toppling was a hoax.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2842.htm

[Schoeler 0]

Yeah, that sure seems like a credible source you posted there too. Do you want to buy a bridge. I have a picture of it on the internet. we all know what gets posted on the internet must be absolutely true, as no one on there has a political agenda. its cheap, i'll settle for 20 grand.

[Ludovico Technique 0]

So let me get this straight, you don't think that is the same statue that we all saw all over the television for three days after it got pulled down? It looks a lot like it, and if that picture is a fake its a bloody good one.

The only massive civil demonstrations from the Iraqi people that have actually occured are the recent marches against the US occupation. Wonder how much air time they'll get on Fox.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ludovico Technique @ April 19 2003,03:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So let me get this straight, you don't think that is the same statue that we all saw all over the television for three days after it got pulled down? It looks a lot like it, and if that picture is a fake its a bloody good one.

The only massive civil demonstrations from the Iraqi people that have actually occured are the recent marches against the US occupation. Wonder how much air time they'll get on Fox.<span id='postcolor'>

actually, even on local news level, the coverage of protesters demanding US to move out ASAP was covered. considering that lcal news seldom cover international news, it got quite a coverage.

that link reminds me of 9-11 pentagon conspiracy theories. by displaying several pictures and adding some comments that would make it look like it was true.

take a good look at picture1 ad picture2. the lightings in the area are so different. the first picture is in the morning, and the second seems to be quite sometime after that.

compare picture2 and picture3. notice the different positions of that mechanized vehicle.

and of course, why would some Iraqis not go there? it's called staying the hell away from possible firefight. the city was and is under war, so it's best bet to stay the heck away from US troops who were getting sporadic resistance. of course some Iraqis went there to attend the ceremony, but not all

[Schoeler 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ludovico Technique @ April 19 2003,03:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So let me get this straight, you don't think that is the same statue that we all saw all over the television for three days after it got pulled down? It looks a lot like it, and if that picture is a fake its a bloody good one.

The only massive civil demonstrations from the Iraqi people that have actually occured are the recent marches against the US occupation. Wonder how much air time they'll get on Fox.<span id='postcolor'>

You don't think they could have taken those pictures about three hours earlier and then an hour or so later, sequenced them altogether and made that claim? Its easier to fake than that.

Let's take this from the perspective of the famous scholar and philsopher William of Ockham. If you aren't familiar with Ockham's Razor, here it is. It is a basic scientific precept that states that, "All things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually the right one."

What is simpler?

1. Half of the world's media are being controlled by the United States and are putting out propaganda (including al Jazeera by the way.)

Or:

2. Those pictures are bullshit, and made by some internet wanker with a political agenda trying to generate a conspiracy theory for other internet wankers, who like him have probably never seen real female breasts.

I'd pick option 2, but that's just me. I think anyone picking option one needs to go back a few pages in this thread and find the instructions for making a tinfoil hat.

[bn880 5]

Oh yeah, very assertive... put wankers and virgins in the category where you think your listener fits.

[Schoeler 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ April 19 2003,05:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh yeah, very assertive... put wankers and virgins in the category where you think your listener fits.<span id='postcolor'>

I wasn't attacking the listener with that post, but the originator of the conspiracy theory, and am sorry if it was interpreted that way. Like Ralph said, it too reminds me of those bullshit websites that came out after 9-11 claiming it was all faked. Only a wanker would buy into that kinda shit.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 19 2003,05:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1.  Half of the world's media are being controlled by the United States and are putting out propaganda (including al Jazeera by the way.)<span id='postcolor'>

It's not a conspiracy. Go an check the full footage on http://reuters.feedroom.com (video called "Saddam Statue"). You can see that it's fully consistent with the stills. AFIK nobody made any claims that there were a lot of Iraqis there.

As a matter of fact, I've checked Reuters, BBC, AP and AFP and they all refer to it as "a crowd" of Iraqis.

Here on the other hand is a lot of people:

(anti occupation demonstration in Baghdad) and the media refers to it as "thousands" or "tens of thousands". A clear distinction.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 19 2003,07:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 19 2003,05:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1.  Half of the world's media are being controlled by the United States and are putting out propaganda (including al Jazeera by the way.)<span id='postcolor'>

It's not a conspiracy. Go an check the full footage on http://reuters.feedroom.com (video called "Saddam Statue"). You can see that it's fully consistent with the stills. AFIK nobody made any claims that there were a lot of Iraqis there.

As a matter of fact, I've checked Reuters, BBC, AP and AFP and they all refer to it as "a crowd" of Iraqis.

Here on the other hand is a lot of people:

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/13/20/79/demo2etta425.jpg

(anti occupation demonstration in Baghdad) and the media refers to it as "thousands" or "tens of thousands". A clear distinction.<span id='postcolor'>

according to L.T., he claims that the whole thing was a setup. a big difference from saying there were only a few ppl around. setup means that there were no true civilian participation in the area, while saying a few ppl around would imply that some ppl who actually wanted the statue to fall so they can step on it.

and about the demonstration:

it shows what kind of things would have turned against US politically. by giving freedom, now Islamic population can freely criticize US's policy. Ironically, i won't be surprised if Hussein's regime was the reason why these guys would not go out on street and denounce US and actively fund anti-US groups. one thing that Hussein suppressed, along with dissidents, is religious section. they were treated so that they would give impression of supporting Hussein himself only. Remember that Iran and Iraq had war due to how each other viewed the other.

now instead of having "Hussein funding the terrorism" we are left with thousands who are hooting and volunteering for "actions against US."

of course, there are several options that US can take despite these. one most apparent one is setting up an US-friendly regime. not a bad idea for US, but has to brave the criticisms from the world community. along with that should be an US base or two near strategic places.

another option is to just get the hell out of there, and leave it to either league of Arabs or UN to take care of it. neither will do a superior job than US, but will take the work of US while US can safely pull out with little moral dammage. an addition to that would be US taking small roles to give limited influence.

but that is a long shot.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ April 19 2003,08:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">one most apparent one is setting up an US-friendly regime. not a bad idea for US, but has to brave the criticisms from the world community. along with that should be an US base or two near strategic places.<span id='postcolor'>

Setting up a regime does not change the opinion of the people. Look how much they liked Saddam - and this time the people can protest. The US can't very well go around shooting and torturing people.

When the people have a voice and the majority objects against something it usually grows to a critical mass where they take action in the end.

Do you think USA is ready to have a relation with the Iraqis similar to the one the Israelis have with the Palestinians? Nah, don't think so.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">another option is to just get the hell out of there, and leave it to either league of Arabs or UN to take care of it. neither will do a superior job than US, but will take the work of US while US can safely pull out with little moral dammage. an addition to that would be US taking small roles to give limited influence.<span id='postcolor'>

First, of course they'll do a superior job. The UN has real experience of country building. USA has not and it's evident by the current situation in Iraq. And I doubt that Bush and his fellow apes can change much of that. So, it will be like Afghanistan or Kosovo - USA pulls out and leaves the dirty work to the UN. The question is more if the UN will accept the job or leave USA to clean up its own mess.

It all of course depends on if this opposition and demonstrations are a temporary thing or not. It's possible that things will calm down once things start working again (water,electricity etc). If it's so then USA can safely proceed and implement its little puppet state.

[Balschoiw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If it's so then USA can safely proceed and implement its little puppet state.<span id='postcolor'>

I doubt that. Iraqi people expect the coaltion forces to rebuild what they have destroyed. They expect the help that was granted by GW everytime he found a mic during and before the war. They are not stupid. They see what the promises are worth now.

They demand what they have been promised but they also will never accept exiles to take over their country and will never accept a permanent US presence within Iraq. Now it´s power to the people. That´s what they were promised and that´s the only thing they will accept.

Lies don´t work pretty well these days and the people start to ask questions. The same questions as people ask here:

1. Where are the WMD´s ?

2. Where is Saddam ?

3. Where are the links to AQ ?

4. Why have the evidence to start the war been faked ?

5. Why do the coaltion forces protect oil wells, rebuild them right now, although water and electricity do not work ?

6. Where is the humanitarian aid ?

7. Why did so many civillians had to die ?

8. What are the US really after ?

All the answers provided by the TBA don´t really satisfy them as they don´t satisfy anyone in europe. Even the US people start to think now. It was a war based on lies and the lies seem to continue. Unfortunally a lot of people don´t buy these lies. They have experience in governmental lies and they won´t tolerate it once again.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ April 19 2003,12:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If it's so then USA can safely proceed and implement its little puppet state.<span id='postcolor'>

I doubt that. Iraqi people expect the coaltion forces to rebuild what they have destroyed. They expect the help that was granted by GW everytime he found a mic during and before the war. They are not stupid. They see what the promises are worth now.

They demand what they have been promised but they also will never accept exiles to take over their country and will never accept a permanent US presence within Iraq. Now it´s power to the people. That´s what they were promised and that´s the only thing they will accept.<span id='postcolor'>

I said under the condition that they would stop the protests and accept their fate. It all depends on what they are willing to agree to.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Lies don´t work pretty well these days and the people start to ask questions.<span id='postcolor'>

On the contrary, I would say that lies work very well today. They maneged to start a war based on lies and they got away with it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The same questions as people ask here:

1. Where are the WMD´s ?

2. Where is Saddam ?

3. Where are the links to AQ ?

4. Why have the evidence to start the war been faked ?

5. Why do the coaltion forces protect oil wells, rebuild them right now, although water and electricity do not work ?

6. Where is the humanitarian aid ?

7. Why did so many civillians had to die ?

8. What are the US really after ?

<span id='postcolor'>

And while not answering those questions TBA enjoyes 70% approval rating. Even the war opposition in Europe is mellowing down.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All the answers provided by the TBA don´t really satisfy them as they don´t satisfy anyone in europe. Even the US people start to think now.<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, they're thinking if they should invade Syria or Iran next.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It was a war based on lies and the lies seem to continue. Unfortunally a lot of people don´t buy these lies. They have experience in governmental lies and they won´t tolerate it once again.<span id='postcolor'>

I think that they indeed will tolerate it over and over and over again. Bush just needs to cut the rethorics and go to war directly. His popularity will immediately boost since every true American patriot "supports their country and their troops".

Face it Bals. while this is not over yet for Iraq, Bush got away with it. The only thing that could have really stopped him was massive opposition on the local arena. That didn't happen. On the contrary, once the war started his popularity boosted. People are sheep and this war proved that once again.

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 18 2003,17:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ April 18 2003,01:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ April 18 2003,00:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">San Antonio

Whats next? Shouting "Baby killers" again?<span id='postcolor'>

What the hell is happening to my state?! In my town if a person wears his uniform, he's at risk of getting his bar tab paid for and having to shake a few hands.  <span id='postcolor'>

I hope the squids and the jarheads beat those guys until they pissed down their legs!  Fucking scumbags.  You serve your country to protect their ignorant asses right to speak freely and they use that right to shit on you.  I'd wear my uniform anyway.  Fuck 'em all.  Its funny how the navy and the corps always fight each other until someone picks upon one or the other, and then its band together and kick the outsider's asses.  I saw that happen several times in Air Force bars.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, terrible, someone had their cars windows beaten on, and others got verbally abused....OH THE HUMANITY!

Seriously though, as much as I am against what the US did in Iraq, I would never take it out on serviceman.

My father was in 'Nam, one of the people who got spat at whn he got back. My problem is with the government, not military personnel.

[bn880 5]

Gotta love the USA and it's new humble undertaking, it's like:

ME

I bust into my neighbours place after reporting they have narcotics and a weapon dangerous to my assets and neighbours (baseball bat and handgun), shooting one of them (the boyfriend) in the head after he fails to stop at a checkpoint I made with two glasses standing in the hallway (his hallway). He was so dominating, he had to be eliminated too. After I am in and in control of the house/apt. I decide to stay there for a while without showing the evidence of narcotics to the local Police. There is so much work to be done first like tying up the remaining resistance and restoring water and power (and bank account numbers) after I broke everything with the shotgun. (here comes the new undertaking) So, the Police, after two weeks asks whether they really had narcotics and weapons, I tell them of course, I will launch an investigation. I bring in reporters and magically on the 2nd day of searching (16th day of occupation) I reveal hash under the materace and 3 assault rifles in the closet (the so well hidden closet it takes me 16 days to find it, even though I already knew where it was). There is your proof, wasn't the dead guy so evil, now I run the place.

What is this, it's American justice.