The Iraq Thread

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 27 2003,17:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

I want to make sure we're not arguing on semantics. Let's substitute the word "bad" with "justified" and let's change the example.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The engagement of war by the Nazis was as justified as the engagement of war by the Allies in WWII.<span id='postcolor'>

Do you agree or disagree with that statement?

[Guest]

I disagree, since it was a war of unprovoked agression. They invaded Poland.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 27 2003,18:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I disagree, since it was a war of unprovoked agression. They invaded Poland.<span id='postcolor'>

Thank you. Must mince our words carefully sometimes.

I've said in the past on this thread and on the Dogs of War thread that I have certain doubts about this current war.

Nevertheless, in contrast to you, I would never put the coalition countries and Iraq on the same footing, as you appear to do.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 27 2003,17:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Nevertheless, in contrast to you, I would never put the coalition countries and Iraq on the same footing, as you appear to do.<span id='postcolor'>

I most ceraintly don't. Bush started this war of agression

[Tales_From_Topographic_Oceans 0]

BREAKING NEWS!!! The AP (Associated Press) is reporting that the Moroccan "Monkey Battalion" has just been deployed to the region and are within 50 miles of Baghdad. A correspondent accompanying the battalion has reported heavy fighting and that the feared Republican Guard has moved south to meet this opposition. Stay tuned for more details.........

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A number of people in various european countries just dont like Americans (or who they think americans are) or what they would regard as their wasteful uneuropean way of life, their loud voices or obnoxious minds. Americans for their part know little of europe and it appears want to know even less.

<span id='postcolor'>

Well, most of us Americans are of European descent. I have Celtic heritage as well as Irish and English. In fact, I am eligible to join the Order of the Crown of Charlemagne.

We are not arrogant but decisive. People resent us for our decisiveness. Bush made a threat and then backed it up. Good for him. The UN three-ring circus diplomatic farce was going nowhere so we decided to act as allowed under SEC RES 1441 where there is a provision for "serious consequences" against Iraq for failing to comply. Certainly the phrase "serious consequences" is an umbrella under which war can fit. So one can argue our actions are legal at least from the UN standpoint.

[Aeon 0]

----

Just a break

I noticed many users add this picture in their signature

So I thought for those who disapprove and don't support this war, and make this one :

Feel free to use it in your signature if you want

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aeon @ Mar. 27 2003,17:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Feel free to use it in your signature if you want<span id='postcolor'>

[PFC Mongoose 0]

Cool.

Strange as that may sound coming from me, that's good of you, Aeon.

Tales: Plus 1441 was a response to the original two resolutions that were passed after the Gulf War.

[Die Alive 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aeon @ Mar. 27 2003,11:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Feel free to use it in your signature if you want<span id='postcolor'>

Ya, whatever, i turned off signatures so I don't even see them.

-=Die Alive=-

[theavonlady 2]

I support the war with Norway.

Hey! Where did that banner go?!?!?

[Tales_From_Topographic_Oceans 0]

This is silly.

Go here: http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/27/sprj.irq.war.main/index.html

Scroll down to the RELATED box.

Click Interactive: Animation - Iraq battle scenarios

after you see this animation, click "NEXT" to see the next one.

[Winters 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 27 2003,16:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What a coincidence! Just saw a report that the coalition have captured the TV and radio stations in Basra.

Expect Coke commericials on the waves within the hour. <span id='postcolor'>

Great,

now all they need is to show a Britney Spears Video and they will be inspired to take over the entire middle east.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

HHHmmmm i expect the allies are really rather likely to win, but it doesnt feel like it from this end. In fact if i was religious (Bush, Blair) id probably be praying for a swift end to the war right about now.

--------------

"It is not the strongest who survive,

or the most intelligent,

but those most responsive to change."

-Charles Darwin

War is HELL!

Along the DMZ

not one flower

[DarkLight 0]

~You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb the world to peace~

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CosmicCastaway @ Mar. 26 2003,16:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (STGN @ Mar. 27 2003,15:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 27 2003,15:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ Mar. 27 2003,15:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I can understand them blocking out Al-Jazeera though.I mean they show the faces of the dead and POW's before the family even knows.That's really crappy on their part.<span id='postcolor'>

You don't have to watch it, nobody forces you. When CNN is showing pictures of dead or surrendering Iraqis, are you sure that they have notified their families?<span id='postcolor'>

I think there is a diffirence bethwen intavuing a prisoner and filmeing some one on distance.

STGN<span id='postcolor'>

I find all this bleating from the coalition governments about the showing of PoW's on TV to be somewhat irritating. Ok so it's obviously upsetting for families and friends back home, but this is a ruler and a regime you've labelled as being one of the most evil on the planet. So now we complain that someone classed as being an evil despotic dictator who kills his own people, shows the bodies of the dead and PoW's? Well duh, what did you expect?

From a completely emotionless stand point, it's actually probably a very good tactic. Show the corpses of coalition boys and girls, and demoralise the families at home = less support for the war in general perhaps.<span id='postcolor'>

Do it the vietnam way!! Show the ppl what's really going on in battle and they'll beg to stop the war...

Basically that's what happening, just like the Western media shows images of retreating Iraqi soldiers to show that the war is going "good" for the US, the Iraqi media shows pics of dead/captured soldiers to show that they are killing some kids too...

Dead Iraqi soldiers=everybody happy

Dead Allied soldiers= Oh no, oh no! Stop the war! You cannot show stuff like that!

*sigh* some things never change...

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tales_From_Topographic_Oceans @ Mar. 26 2003,19:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The UN can go to hell! Our strategy is to not die for our country but to make the other son-of-abitch die for his.

The Palestinians should not be given a state. They are a bunch of whiney people--equivalent to the NAACP (National Association for the Always Complaining People) over here. In history, those who achieve independence, fight for it and win. In this case, the Palestinians' strategy is to moan and groan to the international community so that they will make Israel give the Palestinians a state. What? When in history has a country been made to give up its land without war? It is the Palestinians who are the ones "occupying." They are on Israeli land which was won fair and square in the 1967 war. Want me to tell you how to secure peace in the Middle East? Answer: For the US to let Israel go unrestrained and destroy the Palestinian militants. This whole thing is ridiculous.<span id='postcolor'>

Consider yourself permanently banned. Racism will not be tolerated in these forum. (§1.2 of the OFP board rules)

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 26 2003,22:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tales_From_Topographic_Oceans @ Mar. 26 2003,19:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The UN can go to hell! Our strategy is to not die for our country but to make the other son-of-abitch die for his.

The Palestinians should not be given a state. They are a bunch of whiney people--equivalent to the NAACP (National Association for the Always Complaining People) over here. In history, those who achieve independence, fight for it and win. In this case, the Palestinians' strategy is to moan and groan to the international community so that they will make Israel give the Palestinians a state. What? When in history has a country been made to give up its land without war? It is the Palestinians who are the ones "occupying." They are on Israeli land which was won fair and square in the 1967 war. Want me to tell you how to secure peace in the Middle East? Answer: For the US to let Israel go unrestrained and destroy the Palestinian militants. This whole thing is ridiculous.<span id='postcolor'>

Consider yourself permanently banned. Racism will not be tolerated in these forum. (§1.2 of the OFP board rules)<span id='postcolor'>

Hooooray, Denoir for president!

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ Mar. 27 2003,21:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We don't know if they want the america system or not .Your problem is your thinking too much,keep it simple.America(or something close to it) way is the best way.Why you think (eastern)europe and america,japan,south korea,etc etc is soo far ahead in their own region ? <span id='postcolor'>

Excuse me? Eastern Europe far ahead in their region?

And yes, they soooo adore you in the Mid East that they their radicals have embraced you sooo much that they decided to take a sightseeing tour of the World Trade Center by air. Up close.  

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think these people are lost though.I mean they don't own an satellite dish,if their found with one they will get killed.I doubt they have a computer ,so no internet.Do they even know whats going on in the world ?<span id='postcolor'>

A satellite dish and a computer is no guarantee of having a clue of what is going on. Want evidence? Read your own posts

[Die Alive 0]

U.S. UN ambassador walks out on Security Council meeting when Iraqi ambassador claims Coalition's goal is to exterminate Iraqi civilians. - FOX News broadcast

Damn right. Talk to the hand! lol

-=Die Alive=-

[foxer 0]

OOPs,i mean western europe.

--edit

A satellite dish and a computer is no guarantee of having a clue of what is going on. Want evidence? Read your own posts

I don't have an satellite dish.However if i really cared about the world problems i would look into it more,but i don't.But when comes to bombing an country i would check to make sure .I mean i come here to get some info about what going on in iraq.Iraqi people don't know what's going on over there.Unless they believe they killed like 200,000 us soldiers or soo.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Before the war started was Americas chance to compromise and show the world it really wanted peaceful disarming. Most were not at all convinced ,after all there is war. Now that the war has started however it is europes chance to compromise and show it can be an ally of America as well as an enemy -especially in a UN-mandated post-saddam iraq (which Bush and Blair are desperatly hoping for).

If France ,Germany and the general populations of Spain and the Benelux countries (or at least the governments in those countries) really would prefer to see America and Britain defeated in this war by Iraq than to see them win then there is not much hope of any reconciliation and US and EU will drift ever further apart as i am sure some european politicians (and some americans) are hoping.

Even in Britain where the war has been unpopular, people will not exactly be impressed if mainland europe is chuckling, gloating and saying 'i told you so' as 10 or 20 more British soldiers die in the latest rocket attack or terrorist bomb in Iraq. Even then surely europe must provide humanitarian aid to Iraq even if the governments dont like it?

Then again if this war goes to hell ,casualties mount and the schedule slips and slips then the people of Britain and America would presumably start to become (more) discontent at the lack of victory(or an -end- strategy).

I would hope that Europe(or parts) would reluctantly get behind Britain and America in this war against the Iraqi government but i think thats probably too much to hope for now and i havent seen many signs of it so far.

That being the case i think there might be some dark days ahead for international relations

...not to mention the people of Iraq, British/ American soldiers, governments in the middle east, Israel/palestine, possibly the Blair and Bush governments, the rift between the 'west' and the 'islamic world', UK and US national security (and maybe some other Euro nations) etc etc

I dont want to be a Hanoi Jane but there has to be an end point for this war- if its to kill saddam- well lets get it over with and get out. If its to make friends with the Iraqi people....

in the words of one US marine commander reported today on ITV news

"This war stinks. Im sick of it already."

Now all we need is an Iraq soundtrack...and we have the makings of Vietnam 2  

[mr. Duck 0]

What if Saddam's using chemical weapons? Will atleast France join the fight? If I remember correctly he said something about that, right? (From that interview I think)

[Guest]

All I can say is that I share your pessimism.

Europe is in a tight spot right now, torn between supporting their historical allies and holding to its principles of not supporting a war of agression that they very much opposed in the first place. I think that USA and Britain hoped that after the UN question was thrown out that the European countries would realize that the decision had already been made and that they should get with the program. It has happened to some extent. Germany is allowing the use of its airspace for instance.

On the other hand France and Russia maintain their determination not to support anything that would give legitimity to a war that is in violation of international law. Where the European population stands is pretty obvious. A majority wishes the worst possible things to happen to the American-British forces. This is of course not an anger directed at the soldiers but at the political leadership. That leadership has however chosen to use the military as their instrument of choice in dealing with Iraq, so it's not strange that people want it to fail.

There are also many countries in Europe that are pragmatical. It's possible that the Swedish PM will get impeached. It turns out that he has been telling one thing to the people and government and a completely different thing to the Americans. The US Ambassador got the impression that Sweden was fully supporting the war in Iraq. The Swedish people got the impression that Sweden was condemning the attacks. Now it's being investigated.

On a similar tangent the Swedish council of export decided today by a vote of 8-2 to continue arms export to USA and UK ( yey. go Sweden! )

[joltan 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 27 2003,23<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Where the European population stands is pretty obvious. A majority wishes the worst possible things to happen to the American-British forces. This is of course not an anger directed at the soldiers but at the political leadership. That leadership has however chosen to use the military as their instrument of choice in dealing with Iraq, so it's not strange that people want it to fail.<span id='postcolor'>

I don't see how being against this war implies the wish for 'the worst possible things to happen to the American-British forces' - I personally know nobody who wishes that, although most people I know think that this war and the way the US and Britain have forced it is just pervert. Nobody wishes Saddam to win this war, but everybody wishes it hadn't started at all in the first place - and most people I know think there was a real chance for a peacefull disarmament, and that this war is a criminal act.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (joltan @ Mar. 28 2003,05:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">~You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb the world to peace~<span id='postcolor'>

Live under a murderous tyrannical dictator for your whole life, then try to say that.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't see how being against this war implies the wish for 'the worst possible things to happen to the American-British forces' - I personally know nobody who wishes that, although most people I know think that this war and the way the US and Britain have forced it is just pervert.<span id='postcolor'>

Maybe not overtly, but I know a lot of people that love seeing American troops dead.