ARMA (#) future path

[Abburo 35]

I am looking on what happens lately with various Arma modders which are going away and starting their own game developing path. I do appreciate their tenacity and for sure some Arma challenging is benefic for everybody.

 

But sometimes I have a strange felling. Those who are departing from this modding community are not really creating things, but they are reusing ideas tested on ARMA testbed and the result is always way below  what is already here. My main rant here is coming with that PUBG Battleground, but there are few other examples of people creating in general scenarios. I made the mistake to buy that PUBG only to see that is 20% of Arma features. The gameplay is boring, the performance is poor... and that guy lost his time redesigning assets (weapons, buildings etc). This applies to all those departed modders. Selling 5 millions of copies does not by far mean the game is good, but is more like a clickbait. (Remember StarCitizen ? :D)

 

Enough with the rant now, I really don't want to start a debate on those games, but I would really like to draw attention to Bohemia (I know I am not the only one) to be more carrefull with few things:

1. Keep an eye on modders. There are few great modders (individual and communities) doing fantastic job here. CUP/RHS/JSRS/NIM, Liberation/Antistasi and few others. Keep them close, sponsor them, listen to them and their improvement request and fulfill at least 75% of their request in a more reasonable time fasion.

2. Try bring Arma into e-sports (PUBG already announce their intention to do this... unbelievable)

3. Arma is a infantry simulator - but I think is more over that -> work more on physics models especially for land vehicles and planes. Helicopters are acceptable.

4. Do not create competition between modders, but rather collaboration. Help them integrate each other in a more seamless way.

 

If you Bohemia will start with number 4. ... I think it will be a great step forward.

 

In the end, congrats Bohemia for ARMA masterpiece. Your experience cannot be overcome by any other newcomer producer, but you have the moral duty to make this experience even better. 

 

[Rich_R 1087]

Interesting post. I feel there are actually two good talking points in this, those who spin off games from the BI inspired gameplay seemingly free of charge and how BI are treating modders.

 

To the last point, addressed point by point;

1. BI tries to sponsor them through contests and BI staff being pretty much available to modders. Its not unusual to see the BI guy reply to or reach out to a modder. I'm not sure how usual that is for game developers, but it impresses me.

 

BI have paid modders to work with them, with the most recent example being seen in the Jet DLC. But sponsorship is a wierd beast, there have been accusations the last few contests were unfair to some modders and I could only imagine the posts if actual sponsorship were involved.

 

Putting it back on the original poster, how exactly would you do it?

 

2. BIs new, free shooter is pretty much their attempt to have a product for e-sports. The suggestion has been made to position Arma 3 for esports before but nothing ever made sense. Again, how you make Arma fit into the high-paced world of esports and retain the tactical mil sim feel?

 

3. This point is discussed in several places on the forums, so no dead horse beatings here.

 

4. Explain how BI is creating competition between modders. The contests? That's the way they reach out and reward modders, something you want. I guess that ties in with your clear, tangible suggestions how to reward and encourage modders.

 

I love discussions that keep and encourage modding as its one of the big gets reasons for the game's success. Something tells me BI knows that too ;)

[Pan Samogon 197]

1 hour ago, Abburo said:

3. Arma is a infantry simulator - but I think is more over that -> work more on physics models especially for land vehicles and planes. Helicopters are acceptable.

 

Not simulator at all.Yes,way much complicated than arcades,but not simulator.

Real world is way much complicated compared to ArmA.

 

1 hour ago, Abburo said:

Selling 5 millions of copies does not by far mean the game is good, but is more like a clickbait. 

Game is good... for some players...

I know,some games better than ArmA in many aspects,like RO/RS series for Infantry gameplay or BF2's Project Reality mod for amaizing gamemode.

Still can't find alternative for ArmA-series... it's a sandbox,which makes you creativity flows by using their main advantage today - the mission editor.Cuz not much games have such tool today.

[lex__1 422]

I'll try to supplement the author in the matter of supporting and encouraging the creators of Mods.
In Arma, as before, there are a lot of questions and wishes of players, to have some kind of game functions or objects.
But the decision of their own projects BIS and the scope of the wishes can not be met at the current time.
Some Mods manufacturers realize the wishes of the players in their projects. There are projects of which part, their functionality or chips you want to see as part of Arma.
I'm not very much and often look at what's new in the workshops. Perhaps there is a lack of contests in different categories of Mods, where voting could be awarded to the winners.

[Abburo 35]

I would avoid contests as we already know that few great modders left this area after such events due to various frustrations generated by who's better. Giving the current status I see pretty straight forward which mods deserves BI's close support. I would not sponsor modders before they are ready but after they work is done and feedback is collected through the Steam workshop. Everything is already in place to be able to check users feedback. Also, if I am going sponsor anybody I am expecting to receive some documentation and sources for all their work so that in case that they quit I can pass those to other interested Modder to continue that work. Modders are doing everything for free now, so I really see no harm in the above approach.

 

Sometimes contests are more harmful than it should... and this a general state in our day by day living. 

 

The e-sports for ARMA would not be comparable with CS-GO or any other fast paced games. But have a look into Dyslexi group. They are pretty "pro" . And there are few of them. Arma community is now pretty hefty according with Steam reports. ARGO is a great initiative and have a lot of ideas from CS-GO world (including graphite on the walls). It has a lot of room to evolve by using some basic vehicles, drone monitoring and ... well... sky is the limit here in ARMA :)

 

Jet DLC is a bit different... that one is a DLC not a mod, because is paid. But yes, modders might consider a similar approach as well. The quality control however will be more rigorous.

 

The word "simulator" might be a bit too much for this game, but is the only one who deserve to have this status for now. I don't know what RO/RS series stands for. I am a DCS World player as well. I also play Assetto Corsa/rFactor2. They are simulators close to "reality as possible as it gets". And have to say that waiting for DCS to finalize their latest engine updates since few years now, I was mostly playing Arma... I have almost 2000 hours on it without creating any mod or mission at all... just feeling great while playing it. 

[Abburo 35]

3 minutes ago, lex__1 said:

Some Mods manufacturers realize the wishes of the players in their projects. There are projects of which part, their functionality or chips you want to see as part of Arma.

 

Fully agree with you here, this being the main reason I was saying BI should keep closer to some modders who proved their work is great.

[almanzo 144]

 

1.: If there is one thing that is obvious, it's that Bohemia does keep an eye on modders. Even though the relationship between the modding community and BIS could be better, there is no question that this is a focal point of BI. ARMA lives and breathes due to mods, and they are fully aware of that fact. The amount of documentation, the free modding tools and the effort of keeping in touch with modders is quite unique of BIS. I'm not aware of any developer who are more involved with it's modding scene than BIS are, even though there might be room for improvement. Now, the fact that ARMA has spawned new, spinoff titles is great. The fact that someone can make the beginning of their career are independent developers making mods for ARMA is nothing but positive, and it speaks volume about BI and ARMA as a platform. Other modding teams have moved on to commercialize addons and plugins for VBS, and I think that is great.
 

2: No, just no. ARMA is not tailored towards competative play, and especially not e-sports. ARGO has demonstrated that ARMA is hard to balance, has to much input lag, and has a netcode that doesn't combine well with a competative shooting scene. Large scale operations, maybe... But not e-sport. It's a bad idea to try to cash in on something that's big, when the game itself has it's strenghts elsewhere. Trying to achieve anything on the e-sports scene with ARMA will only move attention away from where ARMA has potential.
 

3. Dead horse, no need to beat on it.

 

4. I struggle to see how they are not. The modding community are very helpful, in my experience.

[kremator 1065]

Arma4 needs to be VBS Blue ... end of story.

[R0adki11 3949]

On 04/08/2017 at 1:05 PM, Abburo said:

-snip-

 

1. BIS already keep an eye on modders, alot of current and previous BIS staff were/are addon makers.

2. I see no need to bring Arma to e-sports, i would prefer the effort in making the Arma platform better. I wouldn't want a change in direction, especially since ive enjoyed playing BIS games since the OFP Demo.

3.This has been discussed time and time again.

4. Not sure why you think there is competition, alot of the mod/addon teams collaborate and share knowledge already. As an addon maker, ive never had an issue when ive needed help.

[drebin052 324]

On 8/4/2017 at 10:05 PM, Abburo said:

2. Try bring Arma into e-sports (PUBG already announce their intention to do this... unbelievable)

 

Arma in eSports? Well...better get used to having everything in A3 (ballistics, weapons, vehicles, etc) get severe nerfs and near daily balance patches for six months straight until the game gets balanced. Plus, you'll also be getting an extremely toxic community (putting it lightly) that has a daily 5-8 threads on the forums QQ'ing about "X weapon being OP", "Y vehicle needs nerf", "X faction can't win at the pro level because Y faction has too much OP stuff" or "Fire the balance team at Bohemia pls".

 

But there would never be enough patch changes to appease competitive players without significantly altering the core game, and it would completely alienate A3's primary player base at the same time.

 

Trust me (and I'm telling you this as someone who plays SC2 at a high level), you really do not want Arma to be an eSports centric game.

[chortles 263]

@almanzo Interestingly enough, back before Bohemia announced that Argo was getting a formal release I'd been of the assumption that the Open Prototype phase would be just a 'live' learning/training experience for developers about doing competitive/e-sports TvT, after which such a game would be made on a different engine, 'Project Argo' having been derived from Arma 3 because it was readily available.

@kremator Only if VBS Blue has 'everything Arma 3 has and then some', which when I last looked at VBS3's online documentation before BISim took it all down was most certainly not the case for VBS3...
@drebin052 Anyone who doesn't believe you should just look up the KOTH-post-Jets-DLC posts here and elsewhere...

 

[lysan 17]

On 8/5/2017 at 2:07 PM, kremator said:

Arma4 needs to be VBS Blue ... end of story.

Need to be quoted for the truth, and I would chip in with keep it as a war simulator, that is what made Arma great and it is what will keep it being great for years to come.

 

One thing that could be added was a campaign server like we got in IL-2, where you have an ongoing campaign going for X amount of time, including logistics, support, and dynamic moving front lines.