HEAT powerful than APFDS? what does HEAT mean?

[dragon zen 16]

Hi guys:

   I just realized that in both T-100 and M2A4, the HEAT is more powerful than APFDS?? For example, for T-100, HEAT had DirectHit 800, IndirectHit 40, IndirectHitRange 2, but APFDS had only DirectHit 550,  IndirectHit 20, IndirectHitRange 0.5. I tested it, and HEAT round really hit armor more damage. Previously I thought APFDS is better at heavy armor.

   APFDS=armor piercing fin stabilized discarding sabot, it should be OK. And it is said that APFDS is targeting heavy armor.

   So what does HEAT mean? High explosive anti tank?? Does it mean that it uses chemical energy to destroy armor? Or it is dual purpose? It might be reasonable if it is the former, and it is amazing if it is dual purpose shell, even powerful than AP round. Also, the M2A4 used HEAT_MP_T rounds, so it indicates Multi-Purpose???

   Any one could explain what is the purpose of HEAT, and why Arma 3 set such values? 

 

   Finally, by the way, my custom mission AFCS SP version has been updated, which showed the data of vehicle ammo. You can check this issue easily with that mission, and I also realized this when I play it, :D.

Dragon

[en3x 209]

Yeah your assessment is correct. From what I understand HEAT is high explosive anti tank aimed to destroy lighter armored targets.

Like Armored personnel carrier or Infantry fighting vehicles or maybe MRAPs, anything but Main battle tanks really.

[Beagle 684]

The whole matter is more difficult than that and just shows how a hitpoint only damage systems fails. HEAT is meant to defeat MBT armour. It is never and never was an ammuntion against lightly armoured targets. HEAT is not just a single HEAT charge. The russians spezialized in HEAT very early and used it in WW2. They also early developed double and tripple HEAT rounds. HEAT is much cheaper to produce compared to APFSDS ammunition and is still used in large numbers because it has another special advantage over APFSDS: the penetration power of HEAT is always the same, no matter how far the targets is away. The Penetrator of an APFSDS on the other hand will lose Kinetic energy over distance, a lot of it will be already gone after 2000 meters. To give numbers, a modern 120mm HEAT can easily penetrate 500mm RHA.

[OMAC 254]

More info:

 

 

[dragon zen 16]

9 hours ago, Beagle said:

The whole matter is more difficult than that and just shows how a hitpoint only damage systems fails. HEAT is meant to defeat MBT armour. It is never and never was an ammuntion against lightly armoured targets. HEAT is not just a single HEAT charge. The russians spezialized in HEAT very early and used it in WW2. They also early developed double and tripple HEAT rounds. HEAT is much cheaper to produce compared to APFSDS ammunition and is still used in large numbers because it has another special advantage over APFSDS: the penetration power of HEAT is always the same, no matter how far the targets is away. The Penetrator of an APFSDS on the other hand will lose Kinetic energy over distance, a lot of it will be already gone after 2000 meters. To give numbers, a modern 120mm HEAT can easily penetrate 500mm RHA.

Alright thanks you for your explanation.

[dragon zen 16]

7 hours ago, OMAC said:

More info:

 

 

I think that topic has wrong explanation, as some guys considered HEAT as dual purpose? It seems the HEAT should be chemical energy anti-armor??

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

4 hours ago, dragon zen said:

I think that topic has wrong explanation, as some guys considered HEAT as dual purpose? It seems the HEAT should be chemical energy anti-armor??

 

No, HEAT is a reverse cone, in regards to where it hits, layered with heavy explosives on the "outside" of the cone. When the explosives is triggered. It goes via the weakest point which is the tip of the cone and forces all of the explosive power into a beam of molten copper, what the cone is made of, which burns through the enemy armor, super heats the air inside the small compartment a tank is, which makes the air expand faster than the speed of sound thereby becoming an explosion, and the tank blows up. Maybe triggering secondary fires, explosions via ammo cooking and so on...

 

So the HE is in regards to the explosives used on the "outside" of the cone and since its "only" anti tank. You also have the AT, ergo HEAT.

[en3x 209]

Very interesting, that clears my error!

[The Man Without Qualities 110]

OK

 

Reality:

 

APFSDS:

- accuracy high at long distance

- penetration power decrease with distance

 

HEAT:

- accuracy decreasing at long distance drastically

- penetration power is the same at any distance

- due to the need of large diameters the barrel diameter is most limiting factor

 

MISSILE with HEAT warhead

- accuracy high depending on tracking capabilities

- penetration power is the same at any distance

- due to the need of large diameters the barrel diameter is most limiting factor (only valid for barrel fired rockets common in russian tanks)

- risk of working countermeasures since the missile tracking can be disturbed on irelatively slow flight

 

 

NOW..

 

How is the decreasing penetration power simulated in A3? Did not found a suitable parameter in ammo paras.

[kireta21 13]

On 17.06.2017 at 4:54 AM, dragon zen said:

I think that topic has wrong explanation, as some guys considered HEAT as dual purpose? It seems the HEAT should be chemical energy anti-armor??

HEDP stands for high-explosive dual-purpose. It's combined HEAT and HEF shell, where explosion that creates penetrator is also used to create large shrapnels like in normal HE. They're essentially used as anti-everything shells, when APFSDS are used aganist armored targets that are beyond ability of HEAT.

Main gain is limiting types of ammo tank needs to carry, from 3-4 to 2, which allows carry more of speciffic type without sacrificing fexibility of loadout.

 

@The Man Without Qualities

Main advantage of KE over HEAT is that modern armors (composite, spaced, reactive etc) are optimized for vs. HEAT effeciency, so even though HEAT offers more pen on paper, KE is still more likely to defeat target.

 

All of that RL of course.

[The Man Without Qualities 110]

6 hours ago, kireta21 said:

 

@The Man Without Qualities

Main advantage of KE over HEAT is that modern armors (composite, spaced, reactive etc) are optimized for vs. HEAT effeciency, so even though HEAT offers more pen on paper, KE is still more likely to defeat target.

 

All of that RL of course.

So let's hope that we soon have mega-power generators + mega-capacitors + rail guns at tracks, then we can shoot through a tank column at 12km in RL :-)

[angel24marin 34]

Some info about how HEATs work:

 

https://translate.google.es/translate?hl=&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.de1939a1945.com%2Ftecnicos%2F016cargahueca.htm

But in resume, they are HE rounds that instead of affect a big area, they focus all the energy in one spot in order to defeat armour. So as the explosion is the same a cross all distancies they dont lose power. 

 

 

 

APDS FS are basically very very hard and slim proyectiles, with out any explosive. It like shooting needles. They can penetrate heavy armor but the damage caused is relatively "low". Fragmetation of the proyectile and armor and direct hits to crew or mechanical components. But a hit in an ammo rack can be fatal.

 

[OMAC 254]

Here's some good info on the various tank rounds from the US manufacturer!

 

https://www.orbitalatk.com/defense-systems/armament-systems/120mm/

 

Quote

 

120mm M830A1 HEAT-MP-T Ammunition

The M830A1 HEAT-MP-T was developed as a replacement for the M830 HEAT round. It has demonstrated a 20 percent performance increase against bunkers and a 30 percent performance increase against light-armored vehicles.

The M830A1 uses a discarding sabot with sub-caliber warhead and a multifunction fuzing system. It has a unique airburst capability that is quickly selectable by the tank crewman. The unique fuzing options and fast time of flight make this round the ultimate warhead in urban warfare.

Known commonly as "MPAT," it was the round of choice in operation Iraqi Freedom.

 

 

Using RHS tanks + RAM mod, MPAT rounds are much more effective against vanilla tanks and IFV at ranges >1 km than APFSDS.  Same may also be true against RHS targets.  But overall, I agree that APFSDS rounds should be loaded by default, as most engagements, especially the most dangerous and time-sensitive ones, will be at ranges < 1 km.