VR Support?

[Stewart. 1]

Are we ever going to get VR support? It works great with TrackIR don't see it being that difficult to add VR support. Yeah hand tracking would be nice but I would just like to see head tracking. I know I can use VorpX but I would rather it just be an integrated system.

[joostsidy 685]

18 hours ago, Stewart. said:

don't see it being that difficult to add VR support.

You are probably seeing it wrong.

 

It's more work than you think, so BI has to think about if the investment will pay off in enough profits.

[kremator 1065]

I own a Rift + Touch and as much as I'd LOVE to have Arma3 in VR I don't think even my beast of a machine could handle it.  One can dream however :)

[MK84 42]

5 hours ago, joostsidy said:

You are probably seeing it wrong.

 

It's more work than you think, so BI has to think about if the investment will pay off in enough profits.

Then there is the issue with locomotion. Not everyone have the stomach for analog-stick based full locomotion.

[jumpinghubert 49]

Welcome Stewart in the world of the nay-sayers..

 

@joostsidy

it is possible you see it wrong. Its less work than you think. Look at vorpx, there are lots of cons in the 3d-presentation (no real 3d geometry) but its possible to handle the game in vr with edge peak and  a couple of hot keys.

 

@kremator

I am able to play this game in vr with vorpx above 37fps (asw and dk2) with a R9 290 and i5 3570k (incl. custom resolution (1500x1333)) in single player with up to 60 ai.

 

@MK84

"not everyone" isn´t an argument, do you know? On the other side of "not everyone" is "a lot of vr-users". Ähem, i am one of them.

[kremator 1065]

How does it feel @jumpinghubert? Convincing? 

 

I've been following Vorpx for a while but haven't heard great things about it. 

 

Is there any lag? If fps is less than 90 you could get sick. I know that Rift has ATW AND ASW but even then it may not good enough. 

 

Please let us know as I'd be tempted. 

[MK84 42]

7 hours ago, jumpinghubert said:

@MK84

"not everyone" isn´t an argument, do you know? On the other side of "not everyone" is "a lot of vr-users". Ähem, i am one of them.

True, I wouldn't say it's an argument, more of a hurdle that requires solution so that everyone can enjoy VR. Locomotion IMO is the other holy grail in VR besides haptics, the kind that allows you to physically feel objects like what Dexmo is doing. ODTs are nice but they're expensive and have limitations.

My dayjob is tinkering (some would say playing) with Rift and Vive.  So I wouldn't say I'm a naysayer per se, more like realistic observation.

[clawhammer 10]

Currently vr glasses have too much childhood diseases. I have no problem if bi waits until theses glasses are finally really usable. But iam skeptical. Simply putting screens on your eyes and ignoring that the rest of your buddy is not part of the vr will never be a immersive solotuion.

[kremator 1065]

@clawhammer have you ACTUALLY tried VR because it doesn't sound like it?  

 

In  VR there is a massive sense of immersion. Just look at the latest release of Star Trek : Bridge Crew for instance! Or using Google Earth! 

 

The reason we can't have VR for us here is because ARMA 3 brings even massive rigs to their knees normally. It is not made for VR. However look at the amount of money being invested in VR and AR.... Billions! 

 

Sure the technology is still first generation but it is massively impressive, and more than good enough to convince your brain that you are THERE! Just been walking on Mars today :) 

 

If certainly is NOT 'putting screens on your eyes'! We don't need that Luddite view. 

 

 

[clawhammer 10]

17 minutes ago, kremator said:

@clawhammer have you ACTUALLY tried VR because it doesn't sound like it?  

 

In  VR there is a massive sense of immersion. Just look at the latest release of Star Trek : Bridge Crew for instance! Or using Google Earth! 

 

The reason we can't have VR for us here is because ARMA 3 brings even massive rigs to their knees normally. It is not made for VR. However look at the amount of money being invested in VR and AR.... Billions! 

 

Sure the technology is still first generation but it is massively impressive, and more than good enough to convince your brain that you are THERE! Just been walking on Mars today :) 

 

If certainly is NOT 'putting screens on your eyes'! We don't need that Luddite view. 

 

 

For me the immersion breaks if i start to walk in vr while in real life i sit in my chair. Maybe this star trek game would be ok (If you sit all the time at your station, i haddnt the oppertunity to test this game) or games where you are in a cockpit like elite, dcs or racinggames (as long as their are not to fast or hectic). Thats why i said 'putting screens on your eyes'! because the truth is, only the eyes get pleased by this "VR". And if you ask me, the eyes are the totaly wrong interface for VR in my opinion. Compare this VR tech with VR tech from fictional movies like matrix or sword art online. They all directly inject the vr into our brains, so we have our full body and can feel the enviroment. We are so far away from that

 

If we finally someday get this kind of technolgy i would say we have a real vr tech. I want to see that. Glasses that only joy the eyes are allready a dead technology, we only use it because we have nothing better. And lets not forget the resolution issue, motion sickness, eye focus problems etc etc

 

Sry that iam "personally" not that immersed with this tech so far.

 

 

[dmarkwick 261]

27 minutes ago, clawhammer said:

For me the immersion breaks if i start to walk in vr while in real life i sit in my chair. Maybe this star trek game would be ok (If you sit all the time at your station, i haddnt the oppertunity to test this game) or games where you are in a cockpit like elite, dcs or racinggames (as long as their are not to fast or hectic). Thats why i said 'putting screens on your eyes'! because the truth is, only the eyes get pleased by this "VR". And if you ask me, the eyes are the totaly wrong interface for VR in my opinion. Compare this VR tech with VR tech from fictional movies like matrix or sword art online. They all directly inject the vr into our brains, so we have our full body and can feel the enviroment. We are so far away from that

 

If we finally someday get this kind of technolgy i would say we have a real vr tech. I want to see that. Glasses that only joy the eyes are allready a dead technology, we only use it because we have nothing better. And lets not forget the resolution issue, motion sickness, eye focus problems etc etc

 

Sry that iam "personally" not that immersed with this tech so far.

 

 

 

I think you will be in a minority with that viewpoint (meant respectfully). The sense of being in a 3D space is very powerful, even in a seated position. It certainly is no less immersive than sitting looking at a monitor and moving :) and of course as soon as you sit in a cockpit or driving position it's made for it.

 

I don't own any VR equipment yet I'd like to see at least 4k res screens per eye before I do, but I certainly am looking forward to playing ArmA in VR a lot. A few years ago I did try ArmA2 with red/cyan 3D enabled and that was very interesting too, and gave me the bug for looking forward to good VR.

[kremator 1065]

Red/cyan unfortunately is a very poor substitute (as you can imagine!)

 

I wish I was able to demo my Rift and Touch to everyone ... that would really help with the uptake.  Once you try VR, it IS hard to go back to flat gaming.

 

VR _is_ the future.  PC specs are rising, generation2 HMDs are really shaping up, and investors are pumping billions into it.  Jump on that bandwagon asap guys.

3 hours ago, clawhammer said:

For me the immersion breaks if i start to walk in vr while in real life i sit in my chair. Maybe this star trek game would be ok (If you sit all the time at your station, i haddnt the oppertunity to test this game) or games where you are in a cockpit like elite, dcs or racinggames (as long as their are not to fast or hectic).

LOL it is the exact opposite for me.  The more hectic the game that more you forget about real reality and are totally immersed.  I DEFY anyone to try Dirt Rally in VR with a force feedback wheel and pedals and not squeal with delight.  Fecking amazing right there !

[joostsidy 685]

I have had several opportunities to try out the current VR glasses. The experience can be very immersive if it is tailored for VR. In other situations it can be 'interesting' and cool as a demo, but not something that many people would like to play regularly. There are just a number of small and big obstacles still that have been mentioned that prevents it being useful for Arma now in my opinion.

 

One obstacle for why I probably would not use it right now is that I can't see my controllers: HOTAS with extra buttons and a number of keys on the keyboard. So at this point I would probably prefer TrackIr.

 

I'm not a hater, VR is very cool will become a big thing, but I suspect that it needs a couple of years to mature, so it might be viable for (a possible) Arma 4.

[dmarkwick 261]

18 minutes ago, joostsidy said:

One obstacle for why I probably would not use it right now is that I can't see my controllers: HOTAS with extra buttons and a number of keys on the keyboard. So at this point I would probably prefer TrackIr.

 

Yes this is true actually: if you need/want to use keyboard/HOTAS then you need to see it (less so with HOTAS as it *should* be set up to use without eyes on). A possibility to swap out a small clear area under the VR goggles would be cool. But, I guess the developers see the total real-world black-out as essential to the VR experience.

[Danny84 4]

I also hope VR comes to Arma 3 although I must say I haven't tried VR yet but I would like to buy a headset in the future, it just costs so much money right now and my computer probably is borderline to handle it GTX970OC. A problem for the not seeing the keys on keyboard maybe they could add a button on headsets to bring up a very small screen for augmented reality to see where the keys are and they switch it off. I don't have to look at the keys, people should know where they are if they play regular. I understand there is obstacles to overcome though, think it will be at least 5 more years before we start seeing it in mainstream games, gained very little traction so far. 

[kremator 1065]

The problem isn't just cost.  I'm afraid the message of the wonders of VR hasn't got out to the general public yet.  Once people actually TRY VR for the first time they are sold and will buy a unit.

 

 

[jumpinghubert 49]

On ‎31‎.‎05‎.‎2017 at 7:17 PM, kremator said:

How does it feel @jumpinghubert? Convincing? 

 

I've been following Vorpx for a while but haven't heard great things about it. 

 

Is there any lag? If fps is less than 90 you could get sick. I know that Rift has ATW AND ASW but even then it may not good enough. 

 

Please let us know as I'd be tempted. 

fps is not an issue because you have lots of ingame settings you can pull down and have the freedom of mission making to adapt to the limitations of the current low-res hmd´s. I played yesterday 2 hours without problems. I can post all my settings but I think it makes not much sense because I have a dk2 clone only (dk2-specs (960x1080/75hz)). The main things are:

 

-arma3.cfg to set your hmd-resolution or higher: 1080/1200 (a little bit higher than the res of my hmd)

-username-profile to set your hmd-fov on base of the resolution you set in the arma3 config http://hia3.com/tools/armafovcalculator-en

-vorpx 

-oculus debug tool to push the hmd-renderresolution to 2x. By far less pixelated still with my crappy 960x1080 per eye.

-ingame I pushed in addition the render to 150%.

 

In small missions i am able to reach the 38fps most of the time to come into the asw-zone, 

 

the 3d-effect isn´t very good (not real geometry 3d) and the weapon is nailed to my head-movement so I had to adjust it 1:1 in the vorpx-menu.

 

My problem is I can´t go back to monitor anymore still with this crappy "solution" for arma3.

 

Last but not least: Where the heck is NeoArmageddon!! :p

 

@clawhammer

if you have with monitor 2% immersion, with vr 88% immersion and in the matrix 100% immersion then you can´t use the matrix-solution as an argument against the step from 2% to 88% in immersion. Sorry but I can´t follow your logic. Most people who makes the "its not perfect so its nothing for me"-argument haven´t tested a hmd in one of their favorite games. 

 

 

 

 

 

[kremator 1065]

I may be tempted with Vorpx then :)

[NeoArmageddon 958]

3 hours ago, jumpinghubert said:

Last but not least: Where the heck is NeoArmageddon!! :p

 

Working on his PhD while waiting for a proper stereo rendering implementation in A3 (that can only come from BI). Until than, VorpX, Reshade, etc are just insufficient workarounds for VR in Arma. Locomotion, control and tracking is the smallest problem (as can be seen in my vids).

 

P.S. Also busy playing Bridge Crew... best VR game so far!

[joostsidy 685]

21 hours ago, Danny84 said:

I don't have to look at the keys, people should know where they are if they play regular.

I play regularly since 2001. I'm the type of player that likes all possible arma roles, be it aircraft, vehicles, uav or infantry. That also mean I literally use my hands and my feet and all my fingers to control the game, using keyboard, mouse, throttle, stick and rudders. I use as much Hands On Throttle And Stick (HOTAS) as I can and I usually play one role at a time, but you can get shot down as a pilot and have to continue as a crew leader on foot. But there are too many buttons and controls to be all under hand/finger reach. Even the HOTAS throttle has additional buttons that you need to take your hand of to use. I wouldn't be surprised if all the buttons and controls I use regularly add up to about 30 or more.

 

My HOTAS Saitek X55

 

Given time VR will definitely solve this problem, it's not a deal breaker, but I'm curious to see how they will do it!

[jumpinghubert 49]

15 hours ago, NeoArmageddon said:

 

Working on his PhD while waiting for a proper stereo rendering implementation in A3 (that can only come from BI). Until than, VorpX, Reshade, etc are just insufficient workarounds for VR in Arma. Locomotion, control and tracking is the smallest problem (as can be seen in my vids).

 

P.S. Also busy playing Bridge Crew... best VR game so far!

Hey, many many thanks for the little update! Yes the stereo effect in vorpx isn´t very good, not enough separation and the near separation is inverted (for example the own weapon in the right screen of the hmd is separated to the right side and in the left to the left side). You can check it with closing one eye and look to a nearby object in reality. As an effect of this invertion the weapons and all nearby is too big I think. So the overall look is little bit wrong in vorpx.

 

My alltime favorite is elite: dangerous in spite of the not existing story.  But I will give bridge crew a try.

 

@kremator

Its very important for good optical results to use the oculus debug tool  for arma3 if you buy vorpx. Without it its very pixelated still with very high custom resolution, for example with 1280x1500.

 

[kremator 1065]

I'm familiar with using the debug tool.

 

I'm really really tempted with Bridge Crew myself too !

[KeyCat 131]

Just bought two Rift's (one for my brother) during their current Summer Sale. Price is 339 USD/449 EUR  (taxes and shipping included) for a limited time and it's really good price since the Touch controllers are included as well. So if anyone else been on the fence, like myself, don't miss this opportunity.

 

https://www.oculus.com

 

Guess we gonna see alot of new VR users due to this massive price cut.

 

BIS, as I said before I would be happy to pay extra for a ArmA 3 VR DLC. hint hint ;)

 

Today you have to buy VorpX that costs ~40 USD which is money I rather payed to you even if you implemented native VR support as an "experimental thing".

 

[kremator 1065]

Excellent purchases.  At that price it is a no brainer that people will be getting into VR!

 

Still on the fence for VorpX, and agree that I'd rather give the money to BIS !

[KeyCat 131]

Just wan't to mention that unfortunatly Battleye is not compatible with VorpX. Asked the BE dev's about it and unless the VorpX developer changed some things they are unable to support it. I sent a mail to VorpX and suggest you do as well...

 

support@vorpx.com

 

Soneone also mentioned the issue with many keyboard commands used in A3 and thats true but if I cook down the essentials I can map all I frequently use around the arrow keys/numpad area (always played using arrow keys instead of AWSD) and can easily play without looking at the keyboard. Alternatively something like this may be even better...

 

 

When flying helis/planes all required buttons are are mapped to joystick so no issues there.

 

Then for addition commands like commanding AI etc. I've used VAC voice recognition since A1 and it works great for that task. Was pleasantly surprised to learn that the Rift have a built in microphone, didn't know that :)