Tigris / Cheetah

[wallside2 1]

Hey, I just played around with the new sensors in 1.70 RC and noticed that Tigris/Cheetah pose zero threat to attack helicopters (did not test planes). Since the AA platforms rely on active radar, enemy aircraft can locate them using passive radar from very far away and then simply snipe them with a missile from above their maximum weapons range (which seems to be below 4 km). In result they seem just worse than manpads.

So I wanted to ask: Are they still being worked on or is the situation supposed to stay like this for the final 1.70/Jets DLC?

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

1 hour ago, wallside2 said:

Hey, I just played around with the new sensors in 1.70 RC and noticed that Tigris/Cheetah pose zero threat to attack helicopters (did not test planes). Since the AA platforms rely on active radar, enemy aircraft can locate them using passive radar from very far away and then simply snipe them with a missile from above their maximum weapons range (which seems to be below 4 km). In result they seem just worse than manpads.

So I wanted to ask: Are they still being worked on or is the situation supposed to stay like this for the final 1.70/Jets DLC?

 

Mission designers now need to actively account for the Mode of the AI when placing down any unit thats has active/passive radar. You can no longer just plop them down and expect them to be 100% effective. By default, AWARE, the AI always have their radar on.

 

Try placing the Tigris/Cheetah down in safe mode and then a few other vehicles to simulate an actual mission. This means that CAS aircraft (including helis) must either activate their own radar to find targets easily OR search for them manually via gunner or TGP.

 

What will happen is the player will, while hunting other targets, either activate their radar or while hunting targets visuallyfly within range of the AA.

 

Please also keep in mind that SHORAD like the Tigris/Cheetah arent full air denial systems.  An AA operator will need to think tactically in where they park and how they use their radar in order to be fully effective.

 

And all of the above is without even mentioning data-linking multiple AA systems. ;)

[oukej 2910]

4 hours ago, wallside2 said:

Since the AA platforms rely on active radar, enemy aircraft can locate them using passive radar from very far away and then simply snipe them with a missile from above their maximum weapons range (which seems to be below 4 km).

• The AA can still lock the missiles via pointing at a target and pressing [T] even without using the radar.
• Passive radar on helicopters can no longer be used for automated target tracking. The radar will only pop on the screen, but the helicopter will still need to acquire it via other sensors or similarly to the point above by directly cueing the missile. Which should most of the time force it to come inside the AA engagement range.

4 hours ago, wallside2 said:

So I wanted to ask: Are they still being worked on or is the situation supposed to stay like this for the final 1.70/Jets DLC?

Tweaks are still possible. We will look into making them a bit more capable.

 

3 hours ago, Imperator[TFD] said:

Please also keep in mind that SHORAD like the Tigris/Cheetah arent full air denial systems.  An AA operator will need to think tactically in where they park and how they use their radar in order to be fully effective.

Yup to this notion :)

[Grumpy Old Man 3545]

@oukej

In terms of AI and Radar handling, could we get a script command that retrieves current radar mode set by setVehicleRadar command?

Something like vehicle getVehicleRadar (0 for auto, 1 forced on, 2 forced off).

Currently it's impossible to know which state a vehicles radar is in.

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Cheers

[snoops_213 75]

3 hours ago, oukej said:

Tweaks are still possible. We will look into making them a bit more capable.

 

 

Since these titans are vehicle mounted can you make them a "block 2" version with an extended range of 6km and a dual seeker radar/ir? 

[wallside2 1]

4 hours ago, oukej said:

• The AA can still lock the missiles via pointing at a target and pressing [T] even without using the radar.

Ah, interesting. But I still feel that if AA can't use its radar to monitor the airspace for fear of detection, then it loses any advantage over a simple manpad.

 

4 hours ago, oukej said:

• Passive radar on helicopters can no longer be used for automated target tracking. The radar will only pop on the screen, but the helicopter will still need to acquire it via other sensors or similarly to the point above by directly cueing the missile. Which should most of the time force it to come inside the AA engagement range.

True, although I imagine once the passive radar gives you a pretty good idea where the AA is located you will find them after some searching. Can hardly hide in a forest if it wants to remain effective.

Does this also mean there are no radar-seeking missiles (ARM)?

 

I like snoops213's idea of increasing the AA platforms missile range. That would force players to employ NOE flight / countermeasures when approaching radar sites until they get into (their own) weapons range.

Also is there a reason why they should not have passive radar?

[wld427 1705]

could always make a personal PBO with a config adjustment if you want to play in single player.