movement latency in Arma is awful

[ginntonic 12]

I have to say, Arma 3 could be one of my favorite games by far, but the bad latency in multi-player games is just beyond awful.  About a year ago I introduced by clan (from another game) to Arma, and nearly each one of them said the same thing.  We had like 30+ people buy a copy of Arma - which we thought would be a solid new game for us, but it was just too frustrating for everyone.

 

With a great system, great internet connection, you shouldn't have so much glitchy movements that makes hitting targets near impossible sometimes.  I dont see a lot of talk about this issue, so does everyone just live with this bad latency?

 

Is there any plan to improve this?

[kremator 1065]

The issue is obviously the server you are playing on. It is either not powerful enough or your bandwidth is an issue. I have played on servers in Australia (I'm in the UK) and not had any problem with any lag. There is a Servers and Administration section on these forums that is recommend following. Server settings make all the difference. The only thing we really haven't had it proper input from BIS about the ideal setup for servers. 

[ginntonic 12]

12 hours ago, kremator said:

The issue is obviously the server you are playing on. It is either not powerful enough or your bandwidth is an issue. I have played on servers in Australia (I'm in the UK) and not had any problem with any lag. There is a Servers and Administration section on these forums that is recommend following. Server settings make all the difference. The only thing we really haven't had it proper input from BIS about the ideal setup for servers. 

 

Are server settings something I can control on my end?

 

I have great internet - and I am connecting on servers which indicate low ping connections.  Most games have some sort of predictive function built in to cut down on latency issues.  I was just now trying arma again - snuck up on someone, got to within 15 yards or so (with the enemy on the ground) and him simply rotating his body was enough to make it so my shots didn't register and it was glitchy as heck.

 

 

 

[kremator 1065]

This indeed sounds like a problem with the server.  The server sounds overloaded (too many AI, or too many scripts running).  Ping is only a very small part of it.  If you own the server you can drastically change things for the better.

 

Arma isn't like most games .. it will biatch slap you all over the place!  However once you get her purring there isn't much she cannot do :)

 

 

 

 

[peegee 118]

11 hours ago, ginntonic said:

 rotating his body was enough to make it so my shots didn't register and it was glitchy as heck.

 

Did I understand this correctly, the problem is not lag related, but how the soldiers move in this game? Movements are sudden and there is no inertia.
That combined how rotation is fast even while sprinting,and rotation moves the hitboxes around
(For example head is further away from character rotation point)

[almanzo 144]

On 22.4.2017 at 11:41 PM, ginntonic said:

 

Are server settings something I can control on my end?

 

I have great internet - and I am connecting on servers which indicate low ping connections.  Most games have some sort of predictive function built in to cut down on latency issues.  I was just now trying arma again - snuck up on someone, got to within 15 yards or so (with the enemy on the ground) and him simply rotating his body was enough to make it so my shots didn't register and it was glitchy as heck.

 

 

 

A lot of game modes relies heavily on scripting, something that can cripple the server, causing status updates to clients be delayed. Finding a good server can be difficult, what game modes did you guys play?

[ginntonic 12]

On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 1:54 AM, peegee said:

Did I understand this correctly, the problem is not lag related, but how the soldiers move in this game? Movements are sudden and there is no inertia.
That combined how rotation is fast even while sprinting,and rotation moves the hitboxes around
(For example head is further away from character rotation point)

 

That is correct.  Its more a situation like playing with bad FPS even though I have good FPS.

[ginntonic 12]

19 hours ago, almanzo said:

A lot of game modes relies heavily on scripting, something that can cripple the server, causing status updates to clients be delayed. Finding a good server can be difficult, what game modes did you guys play?

 

I've been playing all sorts of modes, but id say Wasteland was the most played.

 

I guess from my perspective of playing all sorts of other games - why does Arma stand out as the worst?  Arma's content and graphics are some of the best, but actual character movements the worse (from my experience).  Perhaps the fact is you can't have both.

[almanzo 144]

2 hours ago, ginntonic said:

 

I've been playing all sorts of modes, but id say Wasteland was the most played.

 

I guess from my perspective of playing all sorts of other games - why does Arma stand out as the worst?  Arma's content and graphics are some of the best, but actual character movements the worse (from my experience).  Perhaps the fact is you can't have both.

Last time I played Wasteland, it was indeed heavily impacted by scripts. A lot of the popular game modes are heavily scripted in order to alter the main game, add the fact that server admins often costumize stuff in addition (often without the knowlege required to keep performance in check) and you'll end up with rather laggy servers.

Now, part of this is a direct result of how ARMA is a very open platform that can be altered significantly. A downside of opening up a game for user generated content is that you loose control over the users experience. I have no idea of what to suggest for you to try out though, as I never play public games except the odd round of Tactical Battlefield. If I could suggest anything, then it would be to find a unit on reddit (r/findaunit) and try that out. There is a group called FOLK that organizes sessions that doesn't require membership and that does not have any required mods. You can visit them here: http://folkarps.com/

[tortuosit 486]

5 hours ago, ginntonic said:

 

I've been playing all sorts of modes, but id say Wasteland was the most played.

 

I guess from my perspective of playing all sorts of other games - why does Arma stand out as the worst?  Arma's content and graphics are some of the best, but actual character movements the worse (from my experience).  Perhaps the fact is you can't have both.

 

Yes, true. ArmAs simulations require more calculations than your average shooter. No matter if client or server. Heavy on CPU. If server is on heavy load, on client side you typically see lagged actions and low FPS (feels like your own machine is struggling, but server is the cause).

As always, horsepower and good missions/scripting is the key.

[peegee 118]

I've played most of the 3000 hours in PVP environments. And even if the mission and everything worked flawless, it's going to be always bit harder to hit players than in other games, just because of the nature of this game.
Players also simply abuse the system, by zigzagging while sprinting, side strafing left and right and even just rotating their bodies quickly to avoid getting hit.

When a player is proned, turning around moves the head hitbox by ~one meter.
It's someting you just need to adjust to if you want to enjoy PVP aspect.

Btw, these issues will be addressed in Bohemia's next engine; Enfusion. Wich gives hope for distant future of the series in this aspect.

[kremator 1065]

9 hours ago, peegee said:

Players also simply abuse the system, by zigzagging while sprinting, side strafing left and right and even just rotating their bodies quickly to avoid getting hit.

 

I think every soldier in every army will be doing all those things (although I WOULD laugh so hard at seeing real soldiers spinning around that I couldn't hit them!)

 

I don't know many soldiers that WANT to get hit.

[peegee 118]

2 hours ago, kremator said:

 

I think every soldier in every army will be doing all those things (although I WOULD laugh so hard at seeing real soldiers spinning around that I couldn't hit them!)

 

I don't know many soldiers that WANT to get hit.

It's not really my point, it's of course, beneficial to make yourself a harder target. My point is how one can do a 180 or 90 degree turns while sprinting and how the behaviour affects gameplay.
I don't know many soldiers who can do that :D

Generally speaking it's the jerkiness and (inertialess(?)) movement of the game what is OP:s problem.




 

[kremator 1065]

36 minutes ago, peegee said:

Generally speaking it's the jerkiness and (inertialess(?)) movement of the game what is OP:s problem.

 

Indeed it is the problem but this tends to be caused by inappropriate server setup or a mission that is too overloaded with scripts (or running in the wrong environment).

[peegee 118]

10 hours ago, kremator said:

 

Indeed it is the problem but this tends to be caused by inappropriate server setup or a mission that is too overloaded with scripts (or running in the wrong environment).

I'm speaking of the animation system not incorrect server setup or bad server/mission.

There is nothing to do about that, but to get used to it.
 

[BroBeans. 279]

welcome to Arma, enjoy your stay and zig zag ;) 

[Midnighters 152]

Server administrators and communities pack the already stuffed wasteland without consideration for performance in the first place. That is why i always stray away from that shit. 

[ginntonic 12]

On 4/27/2017 at 1:00 PM, peegee said:

Generally speaking it's the jerkiness and (inertialess(?)) movement of the game what is OP:s problem.

 

 

Exactly.  I'd offer the point too that I got my clan (from another game) to jump into Arma and after about a week or so nearly everyone was complaining of the same thing - and we were trying all sorts of game modes.

 

Initially Arma looks like a awesome game/sim but when you get into it the true gameplay isn't very good with the latency issues, and the fact there basically no practical short range gameplay (can't run and shoot).  I was the major "cheerleader" of this game and i got frustrated eventually with these issues.  Though Id have to say if this game could figure that part out it would be near perfect.  Its content is second to none almost, just need to improve on latency and a short-game.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

Uh....you most certainly can run and shoot. What you cannot do is sprint and shoot.

 

There are 4 speeds of movement in Arma 3.

Walk

Jog

Tactical jog (moving with you sights up)

Sprint

 

 

[BroBeans. 279]

2 hours ago, ginntonic said:

 

Exactly.  I'd offer the point too that I got my clan (from another game) to jump into Arma and after about a week or so nearly everyone was complaining of the same thing - and we were trying all sorts of game modes.

 

Initially Arma looks like a awesome game/sim but when you get into it the true gameplay isn't very good with the latency issues, and the fact there basically no practical short range gameplay (can't run and shoot).  I was the major "cheerleader" of this game and i got frustrated eventually with these issues.  Though Id have to say if this game could figure that part out it would be near perfect.  Its content is second to none almost, just need to improve on latency and a short-game.

Begin Rant

 

Spoiler

 

So because you can't run and gun around corners like COD it has no short range gameplay potential? 

Thats just silly. The tac pace movement is plenty fast enough for gameplay, I'm not sure if it's because you're yet to discover the different movement options or you're just so used to competitive FPS'. Arma is a much slower game, forcing you to tackle situations differently to other games. 

 

I get what you're saying with latency, yes theres an issue in large MP servers, but what game doesn't have latency issues? And what game of Armas size doesn't have similar latency? Yes it can be frustrating in PvP, but it's just a part of the Arma Life. The reality is there's nothing you can do about it, and more than likely it won't be fixed. Until maybe Arma 4. Which isn't even inside the scope yet. 

 

Yes Armas movement system and animations aren't the best, its very clunky. But also complaining about the lack of inertia at the same time as latency issues, really? How would you propose the simulation of inertia while running (which I'm yet to see done right in a game, because frankly it's severely difficult to simulate let alone implement) and perfect latency between clients? Think about how much more the game would have to handle if it incorporated running inertia? We have basic ballistics inertia which is affected by movement which i think is more than enough. 

 

I think the only way to properly enjoy Arma is drop all the expectations, don't hop into the game comparing it to every other game on the market. Don't go in and expect the movement Squad, fast paced action of CoD and the gameplay of Battlefield. Arma is it's own creation and very unique. Accept it for what it is, if you're looking for a competitive PvP game, Arma probably isn't the game for you. (Don't get me wrong, Arma has some awesome PvP aspects and I love playing competitively in it. But its a very different game and feel.) Arma is a sandbox, and that's the best way to describe it. You can do literally whatever you want. (you could reanimate the whole movement system if you wanted.) Isn't that enough? Sure it's not perfect. I mean look at AI driving ;) but It's what we're given, and we should make the most of it.

 

My personal opinion of where PvP excels; Mid-range urban combined arms combat. You experience the least latency here and the most immersive gameplay. Long-range can often see terrain rendering and latency as an issue. CQB definitely suffers and can be frustrating; but you learn to adapt to it. 

 

End Rant

 

If you made it through this whole thing I applaud you. I think the best thing to take away from this load of gibberish I posted is to drop the expectations and find what works for you.  

[peegee 118]

"...

3 hours ago, BroBeans. said:

Begin Rant

 

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...Armas movement system and animations aren't the best, its very clunky. But also complaining about the lack of inertia at the same time as latency issues, really?"

End Rant

 

If you made it through this whole thing I applaud you. I think the best thing to take away from this load of gibberish I posted is to drop the expectations and find what works for you.  

I'm not 100% sure, but seems to me he asked in the first place, if the intertialess, clunky movement is caused by latency, or is it something that just is.
So the answer is yes and no. Bad connection/mission etc. won't surely make it better. But even if everything worked flawlessly, yes we all live with the same problem. It's always there and that's the reason it hasn't been discussed anymore.


 

[Belbo 462]

Well... Chess would be a lot less interesting, if all pieces could move like a queen, wouldn't it?

 

Arma is made up of very different rules and mechanics as your run-of-the-mill online shooter. Because it isn't one.

The turning speed though - which has been lowered considerably since the alpha, if some of you still remember - is far to high to comply to these core rules and mechanics. But the problem isn't the fact that the inertia is missing or too low, it's a problem of inconsistency: A simulatory sandbox, in which you neither can jump nor walk through a door without getting stuck or step over a little bush, should not have the same inertia as a high octane fps.

But I guess if you'd implement even more drag to player movement, people who are... more accustomed to fast-paced action shooting would whinge about it even more.

[Midnighters 152]

6 hours ago, peegee said:

"...

I'm not 100% sure, but seems to me he asked in the first place, if the intertialess, clunky movement is caused by latency, or is it something that just is.
So the answer is yes and no. Bad connection/mission etc. won't surely make it better. But even if everything worked flawlessly, yes we all live with the same problem. It's always there and that's the reason it hasn't been discussed anymore.


 

Where? On a well optimized mission and properly configured server I see absolutely none of what the thread starter is talking about.

Have any of you actually taken the time to play on a server and test this fool's theory? Because it's completely false, worse case scenario you had delayed actions and "rubber banding" but generally that is as a result of the player's connection and improper server configuration rather than just "Arma 3". 

[Midnighters 152]

4 hours ago, belbo said:

Well... Chess would be a lot less interesting, if all pieces could move like a queen, wouldn't it?

 

Arma is made up of very different rules and mechanics as your run-of-the-mill online shooter. Because it isn't one.

The turning speed though - which has been lowered considerably since the alpha, if some of you still remember - is far to high to comply to these core rules and mechanics. But the problem isn't the fact that the inertia is missing or too low, it's a problem of inconsistency: A simulatory sandbox, in which you neither can jump nor walk through a door without getting stuck or step over a little bush, should not have the same inertia as a high octane fps.

But I guess if you'd implement even more drag to player movement, people who are... more accustomed to fast-paced action shooting would whinge about it even more.

the scale of the overall island/map is bigger too.

so, most games will take into consideration the scale versus how far a person walks upon walking.

so if the island in this case was 16x16km2 there would be a certain scale factor that scales the distance down to how much a player is supposed to walk in relation to the island.

in call of duty let's say, you can run run run across the map and find yourself on the other side within a few seconds. Regardless of the scale, it's how the size of the map is taken into consideration for each movement of the player. Which is what arma does best - scale.