Modelling program recommendation

[ceeeb 147]

Hi all,

 

I'd like to try my hand at 3D modelling for Arma. I work as a CAD drafter, so I am very used to using boolean/CSG 3D solids, lofts, extrusions etc. I mainly use vanilla Autocad these days, but I have used Microstation and parametric software such as Inventor and Revit. I have some ancient game related modelling experience back in the days of Quake 1 and drawing models vertex by vertex. so I have understanding of LODs etc.

 

I have a few programs available to chose between, and am wondering which would be the best option:

- Blender

- Maya

- 3DS Max

- any other Autodesk product?

- any other free option?

 

I would be starting with the familiar, modelling angular machined items (armoured vehicles, buildings, weapons) but ultimately my goal is to learn to create more organic objects (curved vehicles, clothing items, etc). I appreciate any words of advice. Cheers :)

[Cunico 995]

Well I would recommend "3DS Max" but that is just my personal recommendation. 

 

Words of advice: get ready for countless hours of learning and frustration. If this is something you feel like you truly want to do, don't ever give up. :)  

[Redphoenix 1540]

If you are already into boolean modelling, you should look out for Modo. This might suit your needs.

 

But honestly: It doesn't matter if Maya, Max, Modo, Blender or whatever: You really have to stay focused and work on your projects, even though they will not be frutile in the beginning.

[PuFu 4600]

most people around here use either Blender (because it is 100% free, and a kick-ass software if you're new - because it's a bit weird to start with if you are used to other 3d software out there), or 3ds max (because there are tons of pro using it, proper modelling tools and there is a non-commercial license available like with all other autodesk software). Maya and Modo come right after. Zbrush is the software to go to for all organic and detailed sculping

 

No matter of the software used, the results are in the hands of the artist, not the software. They all do exactly the same thing, 90% of the tools used are exactly the same, the remaining 10% is different way of doing the same thing based on specificalities of the tool used.

 

If you are already familiar with booleans and Autodesk software, might wanna look @ Autodesk Fusion, it works pretty good for High Polygon modelling that you'll use to bake down details...and also comes with a free non-co option

[Redphoenix 1540]

Ah yeah, Fusion is also quite good for your taste!

[Macser 776]

If you have access to all those programs it's going to boil down to personal preference, and previous experience. I'd suggest trying at least 2 of them for a short period, and see how it feels. 

 

The software, as Pufu said,  is only important up to a point. The rest is up to you. If you're serious about doing it, you can put in the time to learn how to use the software of your choice on a technical level. Then it's a matter of skill and aptitude. Given the style of game, artistic ability is a definite plus, but not required. 

 

I'm biased towards Blender. But that's not because it's better, or because I think it's better. I can't stand that tribalistic nonsense. All of them are flawed in some way. All of them have advantages. And all of them require study if you want to get anything decent out of them. All of the apps you mention have been used to create countless works. A good dedicated artist (hobbyist or professional) will produce quality anyway. No matter what they use. I'm not saying that because I consider myself such a person. It's self-evident.

 

Don't expect one program to emulate another. Take them as they are. Learn how to use them. Put it into practice.

 

Good luck to you.  :)

[Delta Hawk 1829]

The more appropriate question is how many mice will you end up breaking before you release a mod?  Typically one or two.  Around four you get to the point where you want to chuck the computer and all out the window.

 

As for the modelling program you either should use 3ds Max or Blender because those two seem to be the more popular ones within the ArmA community, which means if you get stuck you can always come here for help.  But I'll tell you you're probably going to feel more at home with Max than with Blender considering your program background.  There's some stuff for Maya floating around but that seems dated.

 

Also, as far as I know, Blender can only do so much.  If you want to get into the more advance stuff like baking textures, weighing and animation Max would probably be your go to program, but that depends on how serious you want to be with modding.  Don't quote me though, I have only dabbed a little in Blender.  I'm a Max guy myself, so I could be inadvertently bias.

 

Also I would recommend getting Roadkill UV mapping tool and seeing if it's for you, especially if you're going to do organic modelling.  It'll come in handy once in awhile.  Mudbox is also a decent program.  Not as powerful as Zbrush but it is worth looking at imho, even if it's for a second.

[veles-zv 176]

The more appropriate question is how many mice will you end up breaking before you release a mod?  Typically one or two.  Around four you get to the point where you want to chuck the computer and all out the window.

 

As for the modelling program you either should use 3ds Max or Blender because those two seem to be the more popular ones within the ArmA community, which means if you get stuck you can always come here for help.  But I'll tell you you're probably going to feel more at home with Max than with Blender considering your program background.  There's some stuff for Maya floating around but that seems dated.

 

Also, as far as I know, Blender can only do so much.  If you want to get into the more advance stuff like baking textures, weighing and animation Max would probably be your go to program, but that depends on how serious you want to be with modding.  Don't quote me though, I have only dabbed a little in Blender.  I'm a Max guy myself, so I could be inadvertently bias.

 

Also I would recommend getting Roadkill UV mapping tool and seeing if it's for you, especially if you're going to do organic modelling.  It'll come in handy once in awhile.  Mudbox is also a decent program.  Not as powerful as Zbrush but it is worth looking at imho, even if it's for a second.

oh you can do pretty much everything in blender, bake textures in blenders is very easy. I was a 3ds max user but after all the issues and the licensing the program has with the student version I decided to learn blender and couldn't have been more happy with it then ever... blender can do pretty much everything you need it to do. bake, sculpt, animations, paint textures in 3d, Boolean by the way in 3d modeling is not  the same as in cad, cad you only need to get precise measurements topology has almost no affect. in 3d modeling you need good topology using Boolean creates bad typology which requires thinking before hand and cleaning up after it has been made to create decent models which requires a large amount of time to finish. does blender do sculpting perfectly no but it does a very good job and does not require you to use your credit in order to use it... 

[veles-zv 176]

Hi all,

 

I'd like to try my hand at 3D modelling for Arma. I work as a CAD drafter, so I am very used to using boolean/CSG 3D solids, lofts, extrusions etc. I mainly use vanilla Autocad these days, but I have used Microstation and parametric software such as Inventor and Revit. I have some ancient game related modelling experience back in the days of Quake 1 and drawing models vertex by vertex. so I have understanding of LODs etc.

 

I have a few programs available to chose between, and am wondering which would be the best option:

- Blender

- Maya

- 3DS Max

- any other Autodesk product?

- any other free option?

 

I would be starting with the familiar, modelling angular machined items (armoured vehicles, buildings, weapons) but ultimately my goal is to learn to create more organic objects (curved vehicles, clothing items, etc). I appreciate any words of advice. Cheers :)

Blender my friend, blender is a unitool for 3d modeling. tones of free tools for blender without even leaving the program you can just activate these community made tools in the UI settings, these addons use to be independent of blender but after each update they become included within blender itself. autodesk is pretty bad in my book, they can decide to cancel any of there programs and completely stop all support of that program in a heart beat, almost every other year they said that they are done with 3ds max... one day that statement will be true. and you are really limited with there student licence which only allows for non commercial use, meaning that if you want to sell your model or use it in your own game you cannot do that.  3ds max has been a real headache for me sometimes, I would lose a few hours of work because of some glitch and its really aggravating.   

 

Blender and Gimp allows you to create very well made models and textures even CGI movies can be made with Blender. look at my starter guide for making models in blender https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/192427-how-to-make-great-looking-models-for-arma-starter-guide/#entry3059905it includes links to youtube tutorials which are easy to follow. one day I will make a texturing tutorial to go along with my modeling one. i hope it helps. 

[PuFu 4600]

Blender my friend, blender is a unitool for 3d modeling. tones of free tools for blender without even leaving the program you can just activate these community made tools in the UI settings, these addons use to be independent of blender but after each update they become the included within blender itself. autodesk is pretty bad in my book, they can decide to cancel any of there programs and completely stop all support of that program in a heart beat, almost every other year they said that they are done with 3ds max... one day that statement will be true. and you are really limited with there student licence which only allows for non commercial use, meaning that if you want to sell your model or use it in your own game you cannot do that.  3ds max has been a real headache for me sometimes, I would lose a few hours of work because of some glitch and its really aggravating.   

 

Blender and Gimp allows you to create very well made models and textures even CGI movies can be made with Blender. look at my starter guide for making models in blender https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/192427-how-to-make-great-looking-models-for-arma-starter-guide/#entry3059905it includes links to youtube tutorials which are easy to follow. one day I will make a texturing tutorial to go along with my modeling one. i hope it helps. 

1. learn to use punctuation marks instead of wall of text

2. autodesk never said they'll can 3ds max (it is their 3rd best selling software after autocad and maya, before revit)

3. my commercial license is for 2012 version, i see not reason to upgrade it for the time being. In this industry, no one updates mid production. The most used version is, on average,  2 years bellow the latest version released.

 

please stop talking about stuff you have no idea about...

[veles-zv 176]

1. learn to use punctuation marks instead of wall of text

2. autodesk never said they'll can 3ds max (it is their 3rd best selling software after autocad and maya, before revit)

3. my commercial license is for 2012 version, i see not reason to upgrade it for the time being. In this industry, no one updates mid production. The most used version is, on average,  2 years bellow the latest version released.

 

please stop talking about stuff you have no idea about...

1 shut your mouth. 2 don't tell me what to do. 3 you can fix my mistakes like you are my wife. 

[ceeeb 147]

Thank you all for the feedback. 

I will give Blender and maybe 3D Studio a go, due to licences, number of users and available resources, tutorials etc. I wish companies other than Autodesk made their software freely accessible to academic/community users. Ideally this is also a bit of professional development exercise. I've been using Autocad alone for a few years now, it's getting too comfortable. I get the impression the CAD modelling methods we use are a long way behind the mark these days (but are suited to manufacturing processes) 

[JustMathew 1]

 

I will give Blender and maybe 3D Studio a go, due to licences, number of users and available resources, tutorials etc. I wish companies other than Autodesk made their software freely accessible to academic/community users.

 

Most of Autodesk's products are indeed free for academic use. All you have to do is study something, doesn't matter if the program you want is not within your area of study. 

You can find a list of free Autodesk software here.

[Delta Hawk 1829]

oh you can do pretty much everything in blender, bake textures in blenders is very easy. I was a 3ds max user but after all the issues and the licensing the program has with the student version I decided to learn blender and couldn't have been more happy with it then ever... blender can do pretty much everything you need it to do. bake, sculpt, animations, paint textures in 3d, Boolean by the way in 3d modeling is not  the same as in cad, cad you only need to get precise measurements topology has almost no affect. in 3d modeling you need good topology using Boolean creates bad typology which requires thinking before hand and cleaning up after it has been made to create decent models which requires a large amount of time to finish. does blender do sculpting perfectly no but it does a very good job and does not require you to use your credit in order to use it... 

 

Oh yea?  If Blender can do pretty much everything why doesn't it make me a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, uh?

 

In all seriousness, like I said it's been awhile since I've used Blender.  I have Max 2010.  Never needed anything else besides Aspirin.  The biggest thing in my eyes that Blender had going for it at that time was the LSM? unwrapping but someone copied that from Blender and put it in the stand alone uv mapper Roadkill.  I can't comment on the baking or weighing in Blender but I would be curious how or if anything ports over to .p3ds, especially the weighing.  I know the sample models from BIS are in .max and there's a tool kit for Max that exports skinned characters.  Right now in Max with the sample models and the exporter tool kit it's relatively easy to weigh characters, even if it's problematic.

 

And nobody is insulting Blender.  Blender has proven it's a valid 3d modelling program. 

[x3kj 1247]

 

but I would be curious how or if anything ports over to .p3ds, especially the weighing.

.fbx import does the trick... or use blender arma toolbox

[Macser 776]

The uv tools are still excellent. Baking can be a bit fiddly. So xnormal is still a better program for taking care of that side of things. Which is something common to a lot of of 3d apps. Depending on the model though, you can get good bakes out of Blender going straight from hi to low. But not very often.

 

Weighting is actually very well catered for. Being able to see the deformations in real time makes life a lot easier. Weights can be transferred from mesh to mesh too. Great for setting up accessories and clothing with a pre-weighted character. If you're artistically inclined you can paint directly onto the model too.

 

Using the arma toolbox retains all the relevant data. Weights, Uvs, materials and rvmat assignment. You can set up your lods with named selections and apply mass to geometry. Although Alwarren (author of the toolbox) thinks there may be something glitchy about the geo export.

 

And of course the ability to generate animations.

 

Best way to judge it, is on emperical evidence. :)

 

I've never used FBX for much. But from what I understand it can be hit and miss.