Will A3 ever see advanced ballistics without mods?

[evil koala 6]

I think the addition of wind and MIL/MOA scope adjustments would add a lot to the game. Sniping would finally take some skill and yet become easier in some ways when you can dial in precise adjustments instead of only having 100m increment elevation adjustments. Medium to long range firefights would last longer and would likely involve more misses thus more volume of fire making them more intense. Will we ever see such things in A3 without mods?

[soulis6 24]

Probably not, and i'm not really sure that's a bad thing.

I've played a ton with both the normal and the ACE advanced ballistics, and i'm still not sure I would use the advanced ballistics except for players who really really wanted it. 

 

While I wouldn't mind just a little bit less accuracy in general at medium-long ranges, there's one big problem with having a wind system in Arma, IMO. 

And that problem is feedback.

it's often a tough problem for realistic systems in a lot of games, especially games that are going after a more simulator-ish approach.

 

The first thing affecting feedback, is you can't directly 'feel' or sometimes even accurately see the wind speed or direction in Arma. You can sometimes see it blowing, but just because of the practical realities of them not simulating every blade of grass and plant leaf, it's a lot harder to tell which way and how hard it's blowing just from looking at the environment. You also can't just intuitively feel it on your skin, or hear it in your ears, and even with ACE you have to use a little UI widget that's fairly abstract. 

As a result it's pretty tough to tell how much your shot is going to go wide, and in what direction.

 

The second is that because of the rendering distance for particles in some or all hardware setups and configs, especially in multiplayer, you don't always see the shot hit the dirt or wall or what have you when you miss the shot. Which makes figuring out how how much you need to adjust for even harder.

 

There are probably ways to help lesson these issues, such as an subtle always-on indicator of wind direction/speed, and exaggerated, forced dust plumes for bullet hits while shooting at long range, but even then it's not going to have great feedback, and you're going to have a lot of people missing shots without any idea why the impacts are so off target. 

 

I'd argue that it's just not really feasible in the current engine, not without either sacrificing the realistic art style (like transparent bullet trails when being pushed off course by wind, or showing strong stylized looking wind i.e. zelda wind waker), or including a ton of UI indicators and textual tips, which could clutter up the UI for not a lot of gain in the tactical gameplay.

[Mirek 166]

I think the addition of wind and MIL/MOA scope adjustments would add a lot to the game. Sniping would finally take some skill and yet become easier in some ways when you can dial in precise adjustments instead of only having 100m increment elevation adjustments. Medium to long range firefights would last longer and would likely involve more misses thus more volume of fire making them more intense. Will we ever see such things in A3 without mods?

I thing having theese advanced things as a separate mod is actually better than having it in game. It provides a neat filter that keeps casuals and milsimers separated, and i like them to be separated because it prevents casuals from spoiling my gameplay.

 

As i stated soewhere before, there is no bigger gamebreaker, than noncomunicating casual who decides to GBU the AO (where he got killed severaltimes triing to Rambo it before) while you and your team are comencing your carefully planned op. at the AO.

[Jackal326 1181]

Its something that if BI were planning on doing they would most likely have included it as an option when the Marksman DLC launched - in a similar way to the advanced flight model that came with the Helicopters DLC.

TL;DR No.

[brightcandle 114]

BI has had wind in the game since the beginning. But while wind is supported they didn't add all the things you need to work with it, turret adjustments on the scopes, manual estimation for wind, Kestrels for accurate wind, range tables for the scopes etc. There is a lot missing in the base game that I hoped that would have made it for marksmanship instead of it being about bipods and a few extra guns and scopes. The marksmanship DLC was a massively missed opportunity to improve the ballistics. But then we have ACE3 and so we can just use that. I don't care as much as others about the base game improving since I have my mods and a community in which we play with them. Adding all this complexity to the base game just makes it harder to get into.

[evil koala 6]

Probably not, and i'm not really sure that's a bad thing.

I've played a ton with both the normal and the ACE advanced ballistics, and i'm still not sure I would use the advanced ballistics except for players who really really wanted it. 

 

While I wouldn't mind just a little bit less accuracy in general at medium-long ranges, there's one big problem with having a wind system in Arma, IMO. 

And that problem is feedback.

it's often a tough problem for realistic systems in a lot of games, especially games that are going after a more simulator-ish approach.

 

The first thing affecting feedback, is you can't directly 'feel' or sometimes even accurately see the wind speed or direction in Arma. You can sometimes see it blowing, but just because of the practical realities of them not simulating every blade of grass and plant leaf, it's a lot harder to tell which way and how hard it's blowing just from looking at the environment. You also can't just intuitively feel it on your skin, or hear it in your ears, and even with ACE you have to use a little UI widget that's fairly abstract. 

As a result it's pretty tough to tell how much your shot is going to go wide, and in what direction.

 

The second is that because of the rendering distance for particles in some or all hardware setups and configs, especially in multiplayer, you don't always see the shot hit the dirt or wall or what have you when you miss the shot. Which makes figuring out how how much you need to adjust for even harder.

 

There are probably ways to help lesson these issues, such as an subtle always-on indicator of wind direction/speed, and exaggerated, forced dust plumes for bullet hits while shooting at long range, but even then it's not going to have great feedback, and you're going to have a lot of people missing shots without any idea why the impacts are so off target. 

 

I'd argue that it's just not really feasible in the current engine, not without either sacrificing the realistic art style (like transparent bullet trails when being pushed off course by wind, or showing strong stylized looking wind i.e. zelda wind waker), or including a ton of UI indicators and textual tips, which could clutter up the UI for not a lot of gain in the tactical gameplay.

All of the issues you've mentioned are challenges in real life too, aside from feeling the wind. Poor wind estimation is the #1 reason for missed shots at range. It's actually difficult. So a simple UI element with an arrow showing direction and the length indicating the speed with a built in 5-20% error (based on the skill level of the avatar, maybe?) would be pretty easy to implement and would probably fairly accurately model ones ability to judge the wind.

 

I thing having theese advanced things as a separate mod is actually better than having it in game. It provides a neat filter that keeps casuals and milsimers separated, and i like them to be separated because it prevents casuals from spoiling my gameplay.

 

As i stated soewhere before, there is no bigger gamebreaker, than noncomunicating casual who decides to GBU the AO (where he got killed severaltimes triing to Rambo it before) while you and your team are comencing your carefully planned op. at the AO.

There are other neat filters to keep the filthy casuals such as myself from your games.. Private servers.. which you must be playing on anyway if you're running mods. No need to dumb the game down just so you can artificially make it more difficult to access the simulation side of ArmA.

[BooBooLovesAll 2]

If anything, they should change the way the scope increments (instead of 100m, make it 50 or 25). This "hold over" aiming is near useless for long range shooting.

[evil koala 6]

If anything, they should change the way the scope increments (instead of 100m, make it 50 or 25). This "hold over" aiming is near useless for long range shooting.

 

For a quick fix, I agree. The current system, flawed as it is, could be greatly improved by this simple adjustment.

[angel24marin 34]

If anything, they should change the way the scope increments (instead of 100m, make it 50 or 25). This "hold over" aiming is near useless for long range shooting.

Not all sight can do that ajustmemt. For example AK iron sigth only go with 100 m "jumps"

[lugiahua 26]

I personally prefer ACE's Advance module, we use full advance setting on our server since it makes snipers less powerful.

[BooBooLovesAll 2]

Not all sight can do that ajustmemt. For example AK iron sigth only go with 100 m "jumps"

 

Understood. I was referring to scopes, as they are supposed to be a "finer tune".

[evil koala 6]

Not all sight can do that ajustmemt. For example AK iron sigth only go with 100 m "jumps"

 

AK sights are labeled in 100m increments, but you can adjust them between the increments. But even so, I would prefer to unrealistically allow finer adjustments than to unrealistically limit to coarse adjustments.

[evil koala 6]

I personally prefer ACE's Advance module, we use full advance setting on our server since it makes snipers less powerful.

 

This is exactly what A3 needs. Especially for TvT missions on Tanoa. It's a snipers paradise with all the thick jungle covered hills.

[gibonez 18]

I think it will.

 

It will naturally be the next progression for added features.

I can envision it being added when bolt action rifles are ever added.

 

Hopefully however it is not a optional addition like AFM and it becomes the standard model.

[evil koala 6]

I think it will.

 

It will naturally be the next progression for added features.

I can envision it being added when bolt action rifles are ever added.

 

Hopefully however it is not a optional addition like AFM and it becomes the standard model.

 

I hope so and I agree that it's a natural progression for Arma features. The devs have already been doing a lot of really excellent work lately. I only wish they could do more of it! :) It would be nice to get some dev feedback on the topic though. I understand why they hesitate to comment on future features, but it would be nice to know their level of interest in further developing their ballistic modeling.

[Mirek 166]

 

 

There are other neat filters to keep the filthy casuals such as myself from your games.. Private servers.. which you must be playing on anyway if you're running mods. No need to dumb the game down just so you can artificially make it more difficult to access the simulation side of ArmA.

Thats the problem, The "private" servers i play on, are still pretty much open to the public, no password no whitelist. Only thing keeping casuals out is that they would have to download, install and learn how to use mods. If you remowe the need to use mods this will no longer be an obstacle. And no, i dont want to dumb the game down, that would only attract even worse kind of casuals.