Army under fire for "sniper" video game...

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/army_game021031.html

Since July, the U.S. Army has quietly joined the video game business. Its new product, "America's Army," is hot. More than 950,000 users have already registered online, and countless others have obtained the video game from its many recruiting offices nationwide.

Each player must first make it through boot camp, where they learn how to fire Army-issued machine guns and rifles. It's your typical basic training, and it's long before the serious play begins.

The real fun, for most users, is in what the video game industry calls "the first person shooter." In the second half of the game, the player's point of view is that of a sniper staring down the barrel of a gun. The effects are designed to be so realistic, the screen moves anytime the digital sniper breathes.

Player can play alone, or use their software to play with other "soldiers" on the Internet. The army reports that on any given weekend, more 400,000 players join it. And to state the obvious, the game has a level of violence, and is rated "T" for teens.

Parents are Concerned

Jack Thompson, a father and a Miami attorney is fighting the Pentagon. He says it's wrong for the military to unleash this game on America's youth.

"I'm a father of a 10-year-old boy," Thompson says. "And every day I drop him off at school, I know that he's at greater risk because some of this classmates, as well as others in the general population, train obsessively in these shooter games."

Thompson, who has represented the parents of children killed in school shootings, says he will file an injunction in federal court next week, if the Army doesn't pull the plug.

"While the defense department was trying to find the serial sniper in the Washington D.C. area," he continues, "they were training new snipers to take their place."

Of chief concern to some parents is the price of the Army's war game. It's free. It doesn't cost kids a dime. And, it's "cool," because it's the real deal. Who knows more about real combat than real soldiers?

David Walsh, of a media watchdog group called Media and the Family, says that's a dangerous recipe for young teens.

"It isn't the blood that's just a concern," Walsh says, "It's putting kids in the role of being shooters and snipers."

Army: Real-Life Situations

The Army admits its game is popular and that it targets teens. But military brass say they only intend to recruit, not teach.

Lt. Col. Casey Wardynski, who came up with the idea, says the Army has long needed new ways to reach young people.

"We don't train you in the game," Wardynski says, "[instead] we show you what our training looks like and show you what our units look like, and what the opportunities are."

"The idea," he continues, "is [that] then [teenagers] can go off and if they find that interesting, they can do more research and more exploration and arrive at the doorstep of a recruiting station."

The Army points out several key differences between this game and the bloodbaths that are more popular in the video game world. For one, a soldier never gets away with killing innocent people, and he loses points for breaking the rules of warfare. A soldier's actions could get that soldier sent to jail or kicked out of the game. At which point, the player would have to create a new identity, and repeat basic training.

The Army says that unlike most video games, this one is more "real," with real rules, in real-life situations. But for some families, it is still too real.<span id='postcolor'>

This is just stupid.  ABC news is obviously milking the current issue with the sniper for a quick story.  ALL games are like this.  Granted, not as realistic in one aspect (the breathing, that's just about it), but they all involve shooting.  At no point in this game does it instruct students how to shoot in the game, or in real life.  These accusations are simply false.  They're being made by overprotective and overconcerned parents, and being exploited by a news program for ratings.

At least in my opinion.  What are your thoughts?

[Harnu 0]

Where can I D/L Americas Army, I've never bothered to yet. I wanna see what they are having such a problem with.

[FSPilot 0]

Site seems to be down now.

It's www.americasarmy.com I believe.

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Harnu @ Nov. 01 2002,03:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Where can I D/L Americas Army, I've never bothered to yet.  I wanna see what they are having such a problem with.<span id='postcolor'>

nvidia.com has the fastest mirror I've found.

this is typical of any time there is violence in the world. Rather than looking at the root causes behind the violence, there is a knee jerk reaction blaming anything else. Americas Army teaches a person to shoot about as well as GTA3 can teach you how to drive! They might have a very small point that it may instill a violent attitude, or condition people to a point of view where violence is ok. But if it wasnt FPS games, it would be TV or music. The scapegoat always changes.

[Balschoiw 0]

I guess the real crackpoint is that an army of the western world produces a game that is about war. I guess this is not ok. Armies in general, whatever origin, should keep their hands out of such things. It is not the job of an army or government to populize violent solutions.

Just my thoughts...

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Jack Thompson, a father and a Miami attorney is fighting the Pentagon. He says it's wrong for the military to unleash this game on America's youth.

"I'm a father of a 10-year-old boy," Thompson says. "And every day I drop him off at school, I know that he's at greater risk because some of this classmates, as well as others in the general population, train obsessively in these shooter games."

<span id='postcolor'>

He has obviously never actually played the game. And he lives in Florida. And he's a lawyer. This guy is what I like to call "Ameritrash". Fucking leech.

[Balschoiw 0]

I have to repeat myself. He is right. An army should keep their nose out of this. They promote violence and war as solutions for problems. Do you want that ?

[USMC Sniper 0]

NO! Of all people, I thought you would not say that! The game does not promote violence, nor violence as a solution! IT IS JUST A GAME! I have been playing FPS's since Doom, from that to SOF2 to OFP! AND I AM NOT A CRAZED KILLER, NOR DO I EVER HAVE THOUGHTS THAT ARE INFLUENCED BY GAMES! There have been about 3-10 exceptions, kids that are stupid and actually think that every game must be repeated in RL.

Lol Tex, the thing I hate about lawyers is that they defend killers, ruin families, and relationships, as well as lives, and they do all that for money. Esp. lawyers from Florida!

[edc 0]

Americas Army:Operations is a recruitment tool for the Army. And not a whole lot of it is actually about war, most of it is about basic training.

PS:Has anyone heard anything about the Americas Army:Soldiers-the other part of Americas Army

[USMC Sniper 0]

Not sure about Soldiers, check out the AA forum.

[Renagade 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Nov. 01 2002,04:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have to repeat myself. He is right. An army should keep their nose out of this. They promote violence and war as solutions for problems. Do you want that ?<span id='postcolor'>

but voilence and war are solutions to problems

[Balschoiw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USMC Sniper @ Nov. 01 2002,04:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">NO! Of all people, I thought you would not say that! The game does not promote violence, nor violence as a solution! IT IS JUST A GAME! I have been playing FPS's since Doom, from that to SOF2 to OFP! AND I AM NOT A CRAZED KILLER, NOR DO I EVER HAVE THOUGHTS THAT ARE INFLUENCED BY GAMES! There have been about 3-10 exceptions, kids that are stupid and actually think that every game must be repeated in RL.<span id='postcolor'>

It´s not about the game intention. It is about the institution that spreads it. Government and Army should keep away from this. Is it reasonable that institutions that are representing the "last way to go" make a game about it ? I really doubt that. Software companies have to make profit. there is a market for these games. But the intention to get new recruits with a game sounds spooky. It is a question of moral. And i dont see much of that at releasing the game.

[edc 0]

As I said earlier not that much of it is about war. Most is about basic training.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"While the defense department was trying to find the serial sniper in the Washington D.C. area," he continues, "they were training new snipers to take their place."

<span id='postcolor'>

Just goes to show you that there is no short supply of ignorant and overprotective parents, and lawyers willing to take their complaints to court, for a price.

Idiots.

Tyler

[r71 0]

Tex [uSMC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">He has obviously never actually played the game. And he lives in Florida. And he's a lawyer. This guy is what I like to call "Ameritrash". Fucking leech.

<span id='postcolor'>  

?...... "And he lives in Florida"  What do you mean by that? I dont understand what that has to do with anything.

[FallenPaladin 0]

It`s the same like here in Germany. What a bullshit!

How should you be able to train killers on a PC?

How could someone who never had a real gun in his hand be an excellent sniper, just by learning to shoot in a game with a mouse in his hand?

Imagine all the online-player and e-sports-participants to be the next killers. There would be millions of bunny-hopping assassins!!!

Because of stupid guys like that father, they have banned UT and many other great FPS here in Germany!!

I just don`t understand it!!!

[edc 0]

I got an idea.  Why don't we get some people together and sue that *sshole mentioned in the aritcle. SInce he was from Miami, FL-he was probably on of those imbassals who couldn't follow a line from the name to the hole to punch out in the 2000 election.

[FallenPaladin 0]

Maybe in the USA we would have a chance if we wanted to get some money, cause he hurt our feelings

[edc 0]

Unfortunately with people getting money for spilling coffee on thimselves we probably would.

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ Oct. 31 2002,22:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><Snip>

Because of stupid guys like that father, they have banned UT and many other great FPS here in Germany!!

I just don`t understand it!!!  :angry:<span id='postcolor'>

I realize the sale of these games is banned at the Federal level, but what happens to people who have and play them? Does anyone bother prosecuting them?

BTW, I was born in Bremen and grew up in a small town east of there. Of course, at the time we were happy to have SCRAM on an Atari, or some other lame game on a VIC-20 or ZX-80.

[FallenPaladin 0]

As far as I know many of the UT clans and tournaments are shut-down here in Germany. By banned I mean that you can`t buy the game when you are younger than 18. You have to ask for it and maybe the store-owner has one for you in his backroom...

Also there are no articles in any magazines or commercials allowed. In the publicity such a game is "dead".

I have a lot of FPS that have been banned from the shops, but I never had a problem with the police before. But I sure would get problems with the cops if I owned a english version of RTCC with all the nazi-signs in it!!

BTW Bremen and the surrounding area: very nice, I liked to spend some holidays there!

[Assault (CAN) 1]

R71

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">?...... "And he lives in Florida" What do you mean by that? I dont understand what that has to do with anything.

<span id='postcolor'>

You'd have to be a Texan to understand.

Tyler

[IceFire 0]

I agree with that Balschoiw guy who said that this game is morally wrong.

I don't think the military should be able to use games as recruitment tools.   War and the military is not a game, and it should not be portrayed as such to youth.

Military has long been apart of youth culture.  I feel this is not good.   While there is nothing wrong with patriotism, people should not be brainwashed into bias towards joining the military by a comp game.

In all honesty, I feel that the military or war SHOULD NOT BE A MARKETING GIMMICK.

That means movies and games, even like OPF.  Sure, I play OPF.  That is because it is out and there.  That doesn't mean that I agree with it.

The military should not be a source of mass market entertainment.  It is not about selling things to the public.  It is about war, and things that we do when we have no other choice.  

The public should not know so much about the military unless they were actually in the military.  

It is a serious thing that demands respect and reverence.  

I always played with GI JOES, and such.  Only because I liked them and thought they were cool.  That is about patriotism.  Not about fun.   Atleast not for me.

That is just my opinion, as disagreeable is it may be.  I think the military should concentrate on war and be more private or secretive.  And the public shouldn't be making games or other entertainment from the miltary or war.     Just books on the miltary or war for the sole purpose of education.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Gun violence is more common in America than in any other Western country- always has been. Video games that depict violence in a realistic (or at least graphic) manner are a recent development (we are talking less than 10 years). Violent crime has been a serious problem in the US since the 1920's.

One of the reasons that kids have joined the ranks of people shooting other people in America is that our culture has truly started to embrace violence as a standard part of American life. Some would argue that video games contribute to that, but they are a drop in the bucket compared to the complete saturation of violence in movies and TV. I can turn on my TV right now and find at least 3 shows or movies on where people die, often in a graphic and gratuitous manner. I can't open my newspaper without reading about some guy killed in a gangfight or a little girl that got abducted, raped and killed.

And it is all normal for an American.

Sure, the news will latch onto it for the shock value and cry and cry about how this is or that crime is the one that shocked America, but they only end up perpetuating the cycle because they misidentify the origins what causes something as gruesome as the stuff that happens in the world's richest country. They, and by proxy all of us, want an easy answer to the problem, a panacea that if taken with a glass of water, will cure all of societies ills. This is, of course, completely misguided because there is no such thing as an easy answer when dealing with a problem like this.

Sorry my post rambles a bit, but hopefully you will see what I mean. I'm not blaming it on the media, they are caught up in the same cycle as all of us.

What you are watching in America is the moral decay of a society of man. I'm not talking about any freaky ultra fundamentalist morals like not dancing or refusing to imbibe alcohol, I'm talking about the basic things Mom and Dad teach you when you are a kid.

Take responsibility for your own actions

Think of the consequences of your choices

Treat others like you want to be treated

Be honest

Stand up for your beliefs

They aren't part of what kids of today or the recent past (my generation) are being taught. Some lip-service is paid, but never enough. Parents are too busy, and using the TV as a babysitter is the equivalent of letting a drug dealer baby-sit your 8 year old. There are no real role models to look up to.

Our presidents are craven, spineless politicians. Our celebrities are druggies and adulterers. Sports stars get more praise and recognition than Mother Theresa ever did. Our TV shows are designed to let us see humans at their worst- either in pain, or doing awful things to other humans, just for some money. Plus so many other things that can't be quantified, can't be listed.

I'm not saying that we revert to a Puritanistic society- that won't help. Rather, we need to remember the basic values that brought us to the point we are at now-

But wait, another thing is that most of those values were lies in their own time too. The phrase "All men are created equal" was penned by a slave owner; our industrial might was mainly created through abusive monopolies, and exploitation of laborers. So many contradictions can be found between what America stands for and what America does...

I really shouldn't get on this subject, I always end up depressed.

[Major Fubar 0]

Just more media hype and few misguided doogooders looking for an easy blame.

Idiots.

They did this same crap with Dungeons and Dragons, Heavy Metal Music, Goths blah blah...anything that middle aged conservatives can't understand, they think is evil and turning kids into killers. Same shit, different day.