Apex Weapon Feedback

[E. Manning 5]

Alright. The videos are uploaded.

 

I would first like to say, piss off with the personal attacks. If you're going to crap on me about config values, why don't you go pull some up yourself and take a look and post them for all to see? You're pissing on me about this but you're not even mentioning what the programmed statistics actually are. You're going off on a hunch just to attack me.

I said the AK12-AKM ironsights had more field of view and that people complain about the obstruction of the SPARs. This is overall more useful.

The AK-12 currently in game is more controllable than the SPAR-16. Let me clarify some things regarding the SPAR-16: I am not advocating that it have less recoil, but I am comparing its performance to that of the AK-12/AKM series. If you mag-dump and fire straight up, the AK-12/AKM are only higher than the SPAR-16 by 3-5 rounds using Dyslexci's script. However compared to the SPAR-16's lines, the AKM grouping follows a coherent axis while the SPAR-16 is much more dispersed. The SPAR-16's recoil is light, yes, but it is also inconsistent. Thus when you are firing, you are able to achieve better accuracy as in a TIGHTER SHOT GROUPING with the AKM/AK-12 along with instinctively resetting your point of aim after a shot, than you would with the SPAR-16 as its inconsistency, despite its light recoil, prevents you from instinctively making adjustments, but you have to constantly track the offset and then correct for it every shot. That being said, it is still possible to maintain a good shot grouping with the SPAR-16, but it is sad that even tighter groupings can be achieved by other firearms of the same or larger caliber.

You're even going to piss on me about gun flexing? Yeah, all guns have tolerances, but older AKs turn into fricken rubber when fired as compared with AR-15 style rifles. You're ignorant.

Shot at the same FPS, standard AR vs AK. You can see just how much the AK flexes and bends as compared with the AR. Older variant AK's with a single layered barrel experience this rubber effect, while newer variants with the double layer mitigate it. The only reason I brought it up, is because when that level of flexing and bending happens, your shots go every which way which is exactly how the SPAR is performing right now. There is no coherency, it is like it turns into rubber.

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67669

The SPAR-16/17 was introduced as a specialist rifle for CTRG, a NATO Tier 1 SOF group. Delta/DEVGRU use the HK416, and the kit they have on them is not factory standard. Geissele triggers, match-grade barrels most likely mellonite coated, after-market stocks... Thus it would follow that a fictional Tier 1 group (CTRG) using specialist rifles (SPAR) derived from an earlier specialist rifle (The HK416/17) would have high quality rifles built for their specific needs and not cheaper mass-produced stuff that the general infantry get. Also, by your own account, it is front heavy, and last I checked, that extra weight reduces muzzle rise.

Regardless, the HK416 is not just an above average firearm that is slightly better than your run of the mill stuff. The Hk416 was at one point considered and still is in some circles, the best AR-variant out there.
 

â—Piston Rod Gas System
*70% less fouling and cleaning time (< 4 minutes for an HK416, > 12 for an M4)
An almost total lack of carbon fouling is present within the weapon during even extended operation. 95% of all carbon fouling, debris and heat leaves the muzzle of the HK416 upon firing.
*Little or no heat transfer to the bolt parts which results in 3-4 times increased service parts life and little to no requirement to reapply lubricant
*Ability to fire the weapon w/o lubricant. A lack of lubricant attracts less sand and grit in harsh environments thus improving reliability.
*Weapon operation not effected by the presence of water in the gas system
*User removable without tools
*Same gas system components and gas port location for all barrel lengths (10.4-20â€)

â—Cold Hammer Forged Barrel with Unique HK Tapered Bore Profile
*Improved Accuracy
*Long Barrel Service Life with less than 5% loss in muzzle velocity and accuracy in more than 20K rounds fired!
*Easily resists damage and/or reduces operator injury from an obstructed bore firing in the event of an obstructed bore (100% obstructed) occurrence (lodged projectile, water, mud, etc.) or excessive firing rates over 500-700 rounds (melt down)
*Bore and chamber chrome plated for improved corrosion resistance and reduced wear

â—Improved Accuracy
10.4" barreled HK416's regularly out shoot 14.5" barreled M4's for accuracy - some HK416’s with 10.4†barrels shoot @ 1 MOA with match ammo! A randomly selected HK416 with 10.4†barrel from a production lot of more than 300 guns fired multiple 1 inch groups at 100 meters from a rest with match ammo (IMI 55 grain BTHP) during USG acceptance testing.

â—Increased Parts Service Life
*HK416’s selected at random in USG testing have fired 15K rounds and more without a single stoppage or parts failure. In fact one gun was then tested to 30K rounds with no parts failures or stoppages recorded. M4 parts and barrel are expected to last only 6000 rounds or less as per the Army’s MIL SPEC for the weapon. (These relatively low numbers are accurate as per numerous reports from M4 users and armorers).
*ALL HK416 parts are guaranteed for a minimum of 15K rounds.
*Increased service life helps eliminate failures in combat, time and costs for repeated parts replacement and weapon repair.
*HK416’s have fired 30K rounds in testing without the replacement of a single part whereas an M4 to reach that round count will have replaced barrels and bolts at least 2 – 4 times, as well as various small parts (extractors, extractor springs).

â—Increased Reliability
*HK416’s have fired more than 20K rounds without stoppages or parts failures, with NO cleaning or lubrication applied during those 20K rounds

â—Bolt Carrier “Bell†Design for increased function and reliability

â—Bolt
*Does not require extractor removal for cleaning
*Has support lug on extractor (and barrel extension) to limit excess compression of extractor spring
*Bolt head supports the cartridge case head
*No gas rings required

â—One-piece Piston Rod “Carrier Keyâ€
*Improved reliability and component service life

â—Firing Pin Safety
*Prevents slam or drop fires and primer indents during chambering

â—Higher Cook Off Rate (> 250 rounds versus < 210 for an M4)

â—Free-floating User Removable 4-Quadrant Rail System
*100% return-to-zero/bore sight retention
*Allows user attachment w/o tools of US Army/HK 40x46 mm XM320 Grenade Launcher Module (GLM)

â—Barrel Exchange by Armorer in less than 4 minutes
*Headspace automatically fixed with install

â—Longer (10mm) Barrel Threads on Upper Receiver
*Improved Barrel Retention
*Improved Accuracy

HK416 Advantages – Lower Receiver

â—Flared Magazine Well
*Assists in the ease and speed of reloading

â—Improved HK-style Buffer Retainer
*Improved buffer retention for increased reliability

â—HK Tungsten Granulate Buffer and Buffer Spring
*Improves feeding and locking reliability and reduces bolt “bounce back†to eliminate “light strikesâ€. One HK buffer and buffer spring is delivered with every HK416 and HK416 upper receiver.

â—Improved HK High-Reliability Steel Magazine – up to 30% improvement in feed reliability over that with the standard aluminum USGI magazine. One HK magazine is delivered with every HK416 and HK416 upper receiver.

HK416 Advantages – Miscellaneous

â—Special Order “Over the Beach†(OTB) Variant/Capability
*Allows the HK416 to be safely fired and reliably, if need be, from the surf with it completely full of water. This can be done repeatedly without ill effect to the shooter or weapon (an M4 blows the top of the receiver off).

â—Unique HK Safety Blank Firing Adapter
*Will “catch†up to 3 live projectiles if accidentally mixed with blank ammunition during blank firing training

â—Unit Price
The HK416 price includes a user removable free floating rail system with insured/proven return-to-zero, HK buffer and spring, sling, manual and 30-rd steel "high-reliability" magazine – US DoD cost $1425 (qty of one). Current 2007 US DoD pricing for the US M4 with non-free floating rail system and USGI magazine is $1300 (qty of 400K).

â—System Lifecycle Cost
The M4 is a good gun and has served and continues to serve its users well. The HK416 is simply better, packed with the many features and capabilities described above and thus it does cost slightly more. If you have not experienced an HK416 for yourself you simply don't have it as a high water mark point of reference (a horse drawn carriage looks fine until you experience your first model T!)

The US military price, from the large quantity (10K+) US Government contract for an M4 w/o rail system is/was @ $967. A KAC free-floating rail is $200-$400 and requires armorer installation and barrel removal to mount it. So that’s @ $1200-$1400 for a comparably equipped M4 with free-floating rail system.

 

 

So piss off. The rifle is extremely high quality.

Also, don't equivocate. I said the MXM was more controllable than the SPAR, not "Wah wah, the 6.5 is better than 5.56!" - The heavier round 6.5 can produce a tighter shot grouping than the SPAR-16 can. And the reference to the CMR-76 was that it is EXTREMELY controllable on fully-automatic in retort to "THE 17 IS A DMR." - Other DMRs perform and behave differently.

Now, here are the videos, including a demonstration of the recoil pattern which I am telling you about. So piss off once more because I have to throw it in your face to get it into your thick skull.

SPAR-17 on semi. Notice that on some shots, it goes halfway up the tower, on others it travels all the way up, and on others it goes right.

SPAR-17 shot grouping. Notice that it overshoots the tower by a large margin and is very dispersed.

9.3 Navid, no overshoots.

 

MK-1 EMR, no overshoots.

 

MK 18 ABR, no overshoots.

AK-12, shot grouping is extremely tight. Almost all landed on the small vent.

[ivan keska 45]

Note for more accurate recoil comparisons you shouldn't control the guns. Instead add in a grid texture or picture with the editor over a flat wall, and fire 1 shot 30 times or more onto the same spot then repeat for ever stance and each stance weapon rested and then supported. Again each shot must be uncontrolled by you, thus once sight in on and you are about to pull trigger stop all imput.

This will allow you to see how each round effects each gun and the multiple tests mean great sample size and show if their are inconsistencies in different stances and positions.

 

Full auto testing would be done the same way just you hold trigger and let it move on it's own, same as before but just waiting until all ammo in mag is gone.

 

Also the reason for you not adding imput to the gun is because you could be effecting the results, thus be giving better results to weapons that you think should be doing better based on your own views. Which a lot of people who test real weapons often don't do, even though it's well known your own personal beliefs regarding a test can and most likely will effect the results. Which is why it's best to make it all mechanical? so the starting values are the same. thus only valuables added in during the tests are by the item or what ever is being tested.

[E. Manning 5]

Dude.

 

I am saying that the SPAR-16's recoil is not consistent versus rifles which are consistent.

 

Thus because it is inconsistent it is harder to CONTROL versus consistent rifles which despite having more rise are EASIER TO CONTROL.

I already said that in terms of flat muzzle rise, other weapons are greater, but muzzle rise is not the sole factor in recoil.

EDIT:

Other individuals are more than capable and willing to attempt similar shot grouping tests. But it is easy to see compared to the MK 1 EMR and the Mk18, that my control of the weapon is consistent.

[probad 44]

I do feel like the SPARs right now still need a lot of work, for instance the SPAR-16 has incredibly high inertia for what it is.

[roberthammer 582]

I do feel like the SPARs right now still need a lot of work, for instance the SPAR-16 has incredibly high inertia for what it is.

When you mention something like this - at least say what inertia value it is :P

[probad 44]

by that i meant weapon sway inertia, it takes forever to stabilize and outside of prone your gun floats all over the place, far more than pre-apex guns.

 

this is even in fully rested state.

[roberthammer 582]

by that i meant weapon sway inertia, it takes forever to stabilize and outside of prone your gun floats all over the place, far more than pre-apex guns.

 

this is even in fully rested state.

i know what's inertia in A3 , thanks ...

 also i checked it out and it got the same inertia as regular MX rifle - 0.5

GL version , LMG version got 0.6 and SPAR17 got 0.8

but the weights/mass are off like i said before

on dev weight been changed to this

SPAR16 - 100 mass
SPAR16GL-120 mass
SPAR16S- 140 mass
SPAR17 - 200 mass

[probad 44]

thanks for the clarification.

[supercereal4 29]

i know what's inertia in A3 , thanks ...

 also i checked it out and it got the same inertia as regular MX rifle - 0.5

GL version , LMG version got 0.6 and SPAR17 got 0.8

but the weights/mass are off like i said before

on dev weight been changed to this

SPAR16 - 100 mass
SPAR16GL-120 mass
SPAR16S- 140 mass
SPAR17 - 200 mass

 

 

Where/how do you find these and related values?

[Blackbomber200 11]

So I'm just going to come in again and say its been a week since I last said it, and hope that it gets noticed from the Bohemia Interactive members in between all the super gun experts and what, arguing about stocks and youtube videos and other stuff, which makes you wonder if they even own guns, but not the point. Can you just put bullets in the SPAR-16's magazines? Its really annoying to be putting magazines into a gun that are suppose be fully loaded with 30 5.56 mm bullets and when you look at the magazines your putting into the SPAR-16 its empty. Please and Thank you Bohemia. Also I would like it if you put a Shotgun into the game like the KSG-12 or the Remington 870 Shotgun for House clearing and also the fact that's the one thing the game doesn't have and there are a lot of buildings in Tanoa (Which I wish there were more, like those massive tall buildings in some of the major cities) If you could do that, that would be great, Thanks Bohemia.

[roberthammer 582]

So I'm just going to come in again and say its been a week since I last said it, and hope that it gets noticed from the Bohemia Interactive members in between all the super gun experts and what, arguing about stocks and youtube videos and other stuff, which makes you wonder if they even own guns, but not the point. Can you just put bullets in the SPAR-16's magazines? Its really annoying to be putting magazines into a gun that are suppose be fully loaded with 30 5.56 mm bullets and when you look at the magazines your putting into the SPAR-16 its empty. Please and Thank you Bohemia. Also I would like it if you put a Shotgun into the game like the KSG-12 or the Remington 870 Shotgun for House clearing and also the fact that's the one thing the game doesn't have and there are a lot of buildings in Tanoa (Which I wish there were more, like those massive tall buildings in some of the major cities) If you could do that, that would be great, Thanks Bohemia.

Not gonna happen in arma 3 , only dayz does that

[Blackbomber200 11]

Not gonna happen in arma 3 , only dayz does that

Thanks I didn't realize you were Bohemia. I must have missed the staff thing that's not under your name and above your name.

[2nd ranger 282]

Not gonna happen in arma 3 , only dayz does that

 

I'm not sure what you're referring to, but just in case - he wasn't talking about magazine refilling, he meant that the actual SPAR mag models don't have any rounds in them.

[roberthammer 582]

I'm not sure what you're referring to, but just in case - he wasn't talking about magazine refilling, he meant that the actual SPAR mag models don't have any rounds in them.

Oh , that thing - still not sure if that will be updated

[Blackbomber200 11]

I'm not sure what you're referring to, but just in case - he wasn't talking about magazine refilling, he meant that the actual SPAR mag models don't have any rounds in them.

That is what I was talking about. Thank you. I could care less about being able to refill magazine's in Arma. If I did I would be sitting back at base all the time reloading my magazines instead of fighting CSAT.

[graemeshute 218]

Blackbomber200 I doubt Robert was being an ass regards to what you want in Game. I also cannot say how long you been playing Arma 3 or know BIS. But like Robert I share the opinion BIS does enough to get by. Which isn't to say always the best approach. Case point Community has ad nauseam asked for Shotguns since Alpha. Here we are almost 4 years down the line give or take and no Shotguns. You have more chance at this stage getting pregnant then getting that. My humble opinion pay a modder to make some bang sweet modern Semi Auto and full Auto Shotguns.

 

Reading the issue with the sights too far forward. Again not sure if and when it will be fixed. Not sure if Robert wish for a Forehand grip for the SPAR 17 will get added-again a no brainer when you see the hand placement and the weapons length. Realistically its off. Basically we rant and if it gets fixed...awesome if not well no skin off BIS'es teeth. Not like we matter. Sorry that is just how things are in Arma 3 land.

[UkropyPrivyet 32]

Alright. The videos are uploaded.

 

I would first like to say, piss off with the personal attacks. If you're going to crap on me about config values, why don't you go pull some up yourself and take a look and post them for all to see? You're pissing on me about this but you're not even mentioning what the programmed statistics actually are. You're going off on a hunch just to attack me.

I said the AK12-AKM ironsights had more field of view and that people complain about the obstruction of the SPARs. This is overall more useful.

The AK-12 currently in game is more controllable than the SPAR-16. Let me clarify some things regarding the SPAR-16: I am not advocating that it have less recoil, but I am comparing its performance to that of the AK-12/AKM series. If you mag-dump and fire straight up, the AK-12/AKM are only higher than the SPAR-16 by 3-5 rounds using Dyslexci's script. However compared to the SPAR-16's lines, the AKM grouping follows a coherent axis while the SPAR-16 is much more dispersed. The SPAR-16's recoil is light, yes, but it is also inconsistent. Thus when you are firing, you are able to achieve better accuracy as in a TIGHTER SHOT GROUPING with the AKM/AK-12 along with instinctively resetting your point of aim after a shot, than you would with the SPAR-16 as its inconsistency, despite its light recoil, prevents you from instinctively making adjustments, but you have to constantly track the offset and then correct for it every shot. That being said, it is still possible to maintain a good shot grouping with the SPAR-16, but it is sad that even tighter groupings can be achieved by other firearms of the same or larger caliber.

You're even going to piss on me about gun flexing? Yeah, all guns have tolerances, but older AKs turn into fricken rubber when fired as compared with AR-15 style rifles. You're ignorant.

Shot at the same FPS, standard AR vs AK. You can see just how much the AK flexes and bends as compared with the AR. Older variant AK's with a single layered barrel experience this rubber effect, while newer variants with the double layer mitigate it. The only reason I brought it up, is because when that level of flexing and bending happens, your shots go every which way which is exactly how the SPAR is performing right now. There is no coherency, it is like it turns into rubber.

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67669

The SPAR-16/17 was introduced as a specialist rifle for CTRG, a NATO Tier 1 SOF group. Delta/DEVGRU use the HK416, and the kit they have on them is not factory standard. Geissele triggers, match-grade barrels most likely mellonite coated, after-market stocks... Thus it would follow that a fictional Tier 1 group (CTRG) using specialist rifles (SPAR) derived from an earlier specialist rifle (The HK416/17) would have high quality rifles built for their specific needs and not cheaper mass-produced stuff that the general infantry get. Also, by your own account, it is front heavy, and last I checked, that extra weight reduces muzzle rise.

Regardless, the HK416 is not just an above average firearm that is slightly better than your run of the mill stuff. The Hk416 was at one point considered and still is in some circles, the best AR-variant out there.

 

 

 

So piss off. The rifle is extremely high quality.

Also, don't equivocate. I said the MXM was more controllable than the SPAR, not "Wah wah, the 6.5 is better than 5.56!" - The heavier round 6.5 can produce a tighter shot grouping than the SPAR-16 can. And the reference to the CMR-76 was that it is EXTREMELY controllable on fully-automatic in retort to "THE 17 IS A DMR." - Other DMRs perform and behave differently.

Now, here are the videos, including a demonstration of the recoil pattern which I am telling you about. So piss off once more because I have to throw it in your face to get it into your thick skull.

SPAR-17 on semi. Notice that on some shots, it goes halfway up the tower, on others it travels all the way up, and on others it goes right.

SPAR-17 shot grouping. Notice that it overshoots the tower by a large margin and is very dispersed.

9.3 Navid, no overshoots.

 

MK-1 EMR, no overshoots.

 

MK 18 ABR, no overshoots.

AK-12, shot grouping is extremely tight. Almost all landed on the small vent.

 

Just because you feel personally attacked doesn't mean you are. I don't care how you feel about the subject, all you're doing is bringing up "muh feelings" and "how I see it" rather than "here's how it actually works using values and all that good shit". I'm not going to bring them in because that's not how the burden of proof works. I never said the HK417 has super high recoil and that the HK416 has inconsistent recoil, so therefore I'm not going to go digging to prove that point. You want anyone to listen to you and take you seriously? Do that yourself. 

 

The iron sights are a preference thing. I personally prefer the SPAR's closed irons to the AK's open irons just because they're better for actually hitting your target even if they suck for acquiring your target. They shouldn't be changed and made less realistic simply because people don't like them, because guess what: KAC 300m sights like that suck in the real world to use until you get used to them. They're meant for accurate shooting at longer distances, not quick shots at short range. 

 

Cool, you posted two videos that show an old, outdated AR variant and an old, outdated AK74 variant. AKs have barrel whip, but so do ARs. Here's a video by the slow mo guys using a SBR, full auto AR-15 and you can see every little bit of the gun moving and bending in different directions. 

 

 

Does it flex as bad as the AK? Probably not, but that's not really got anything to do with anything. AKs flexing has no real affect on the accuracy because if it did you'd see greater accuracy out of milled AK variants, and that really doesn't happen. Neither gun looks like rubber or like it's going to snap, they just look like pieces of metal trying to contain an explosion. 

 

Make up whatever backstory you want in your head to justify the SPAR-16 being this super awesome rifle that's totally not a factory standard milspec weapon, but it's nothing more than your imagination. Weapons are made and put together in factories for soldiers, even SF soldiers. Do they occasionally modify their own weapons? Yeah, but that's not a widescale thing. Block IIs and HK416s don't come standard with Geissele triggers, or match grade barrels, or any of that shit. The SPAR in the game has HK everything, from the stock to the barrel to the trigger. Simple as that. Stop with the made up crap. Extra weight in the front stops muzzle rise, but the piston system forces the weapon back into the shoulder which means that muzzle flip is lower but recoil is higher. Simple as that. The HK416 was never considered the best AR variant in the world by anyone who knows about them, but instead only by people who think they know. SFs aren't all-knowing braniacs; many of them still run around with desert night vision camouflage swearing to it regardless of the fact that it's the worst night vision camouflage in the world. 

 

The rifle isn't extremely high quality. I've shot one, I know people who own them, and I've disassembled them and looked at all their awesome internal problems. Say what you want, but all you've done is complain, make shit up, and provide absolutely no evidence beyond anecdotal tripe to this thread. 

 

The MXM should be better than the SPAR-17. It's a more modern rifle with a more modern cartridge. It's not secret that 7.62x51mm and 5.56x45mm are long outdated even today (for instance, the powder technology that we could be using blows the current shit out of the water), not to mention by 2035. SFs use weapons that suit the mission, not the best weapons. What this mission is? I don't know. The reality of the situation, in my opinion, is that BIS is incredibly unimaginative when it comes to weapon designs. They've tried their best, but they're going back to the standard weapons of today because they just can't get it right. These weapons will be worse, won't be balanced, and so on and so forth, but they're going to be different, which is all that matters to me. 

 

Once again, anecdotal evidence. Don't care.

 

You can sit here and cry all you want about people being mean to you, but do you really expect me to respect you, acknowledge you, or any of that other crap when you're going to sit here and call me thick-skulled and tell me to piss off? Don't demand respect and act like a child, because that's how you get treated like a child. This conversation has been respectful regardless of how you view it; it's you who introduced name calling and insulting because you dislike that people were insinuating that you didn't know what you claim to know while providing contradictory points. 

 

So I'm just going to come in again and say its been a week since I last said it, and hope that it gets noticed from the Bohemia Interactive members in between all the super gun experts and what, arguing about stocks and youtube videos and other stuff, which makes you wonder if they even own guns, but not the point. Can you just put bullets in the SPAR-16's magazines? Its really annoying to be putting magazines into a gun that are suppose be fully loaded with 30 5.56 mm bullets and when you look at the magazines your putting into the SPAR-16 its empty. Please and Thank you Bohemia. Also I would like it if you put a Shotgun into the game like the KSG-12 or the Remington 870 Shotgun for House clearing and also the fact that's the one thing the game doesn't have and there are a lot of buildings in Tanoa (Which I wish there were more, like those massive tall buildings in some of the major cities) If you could do that, that would be great, Thanks Bohemia.

 

I agree. This is an issue that should be fixed and it really reminds me of CoD MW2 back when they used 20 round magazines that magically held 30 rounds and had nothing inside of them (hey, like the Katiba!!) Would like to see this issue fixed ASAP. Don't really care about shotguns anymore, but I would like to see the XM25 back in the ggame. 

[E. Manning 5]

Now you're just irritating me and arguing just to argue. I don't even know what you're arguing about or for anymore.

 

I'm not even going to answer to your childish babbling to defend a failing argument. Anyone with half a brain can watch the videos and see that my feedback is valid.

[graemeshute 218]

E. Manning

and

UkropyPrivyet

Here is simple advice gentlemen. Lets agree to disagree. I am sure said Forum moderator will say this. But can you guys settle this on private? I don't have a dog in this fight except to say while all points are valid from both parties its just turning into a flame war. Not pointing fingers. Debate is healthy but first rule about all this have fun.

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

client RPT:

 

14:48:49 Sound: Error: Multi-stream: Load failed, stream a3\sounds_f_exp\arsenal\weapons\smgs\rogue9\rogue9_distshot_02.wss not found !!!
14:48:50 Sound: Error: File: a3\sounds_f_exp\arsenal\weapons\smgs\rogue9\rogue9_distshot_03.wss not found !!!
14:48:50 Sound: Error: Multi-stream: Load failed, stream a3\sounds_f_exp\arsenal\weapons\smgs\rogue9\rogue9_distshot_03.wss not found !!!
14:48:50 Sound: Error: File: a3\sounds_f_exp\arsenal\weapons\smgs\rogue9\rogue9_distshot_02.wss not found !!!
14:48:50 Sound: Error: Multi-stream: Load failed, stream a3\sounds_f_exp\arsenal\weapons\smgs\rogue9\rogue9_distshot_02.wss not found !!!
14:48:50 Sound: Error: File: a3\sounds_f_exp\arsenal\weapons\smgs\rogue9\rogue9_distshot_03.wss not found !!!
14:48:50 Sound: Error: Multi-stream: Load failed, stream a3\sounds_f_exp\arsenal\weapons\smgs\rogue9\rogue9_distshot_03.wss not found !!!

[roberthammer 582]

client RPT:

Most of the new weapons still miss the "Tails" and distant sounds too and i think that will be the last big update before Apex release - this week on dev ?

[UkropyPrivyet 32]

Now you're just irritating me and arguing just to argue. I don't even know what you're arguing about or for anymore.

 

I'm not even going to answer to your childish babbling to defend a failing argument. Anyone with half a brain can watch the videos and see that my feedback is valid.

 

I'm really not. Since you need a refresher: You're saying the HK416 and HK417 have sporadic, unrealistically high recoil. I'm telling you that I don't believe they do, and you're telling me that I'm thick headed because I'm asking you to provide proof from the game's coding rather than just spitting out opinions and claiming to be offended. 

 

You're also claiming that the AK-12 is more accurate in game, which is "unacceptable" because you believe that the HK416 in game is this super highly customized SF weapon that's got a fancy Geissele trigger, a match-grade barrel, and all sorts of other bullshit that simply isn't true. Your argument is also that the HK416 is used by da Special Forces, therefore it's got to be above-average in quality, rather than being another simply-MilSpec rifle. You're also piling on top of this that an old AKS-74 showcases signs of flexing under stress (like all weapons do, including the HK416) and acting like that's a sign that the AK-12 should be less accurate (something you've even stated might not be the case with the new double coated barrels). You're piggybacking on top of this that the AK-12's got better sights (an opinion) and that the HK416's sights suck (an opinion) and therefore should be changed (an opinion). You're getting angry and accusatory because you've not got any facts to back up any of your opinions, and when I've called you out you're instead asking me to back up my points and expecting me to accept your anecdotal evidence. 

 

That's the entire argument summed up. You're doing a fine job proving everything I've posted up until this point. Grow up and bring something to the table and I'll be more than willing to talk about this, but if you want to keep up with the "I m so smaert n u r dum i do not need 2 takl 2 yoo" crap, then good riddance.

 

E. Manning

and

UkropyPrivyet

Here is simple advice gentlemen. Lets agree to disagree. I am sure said Forum moderator will say this. But can you guys settle this on private? I don't have a dog in this fight except to say while all points are valid from both parties its just turning into a flame war. Not pointing fingers. Debate is healthy but first rule about all this have fun.

 

I'd like a debate on this and I don't think it should be private. If he wants to argue, I'm not going to. If he wants to debate, then I'm more than willing to have at him with facts. However, he doesn't want facts, he wants people to confirm his opinions. 

[graemeshute 218]

UkropyPrivyet what ever his or your reasons you have to take into account will the Devs change things for your sake or his. Knowing BIS I doubt it. Thus this will become a wishlist or a mud slinging match which further isn't really the place or time for this. My advice message the Devs. I am not saying you cant but try remember people are passionate. Try respect each other guys-speaking to everyone on this thread. You don't want Admins banning or giving warnings.

 

And that is the last from me. Have fun guys Apex Protocol shall be soon upon us.

[skariaxil 24]

As much as I enjoy seeing you toddlers bicker over who is being a meany and who isn't, don't you think there's more appropriate places for that sort of thing?

 

You know, like a thread that isn't a feedback thread that the devs will look through hoping for usable feedback.

[heavygunner 179]

Is it only me, or is the reload of the AKM and the AKSU really fast?