Will-my-pc-run-Arma3? What cpu/gpu to get? What settings? What system specifications?

[Groove_C 267]

@oldbear what I meant is not to wait until next ArmA before upgrading, but upgrading now, but already considering possible requirements of next ArmA and those of other future games as good/much as possible.

 

It's already a fact, that next ArmA will 100% use more cores/threads and more efficiently and will have higher graphics and RAM requirements.

 

It would be almost stupid to need to upgrade your GPU and/or CPU again like just 1-2 years later.

 

As fare as I know, next gen Intel Comet Lake S will have 1200 "pins" (vs. 1151).

So I suppose that the chip might be bigger, which is good, because bigger chips are easier to cool down that smaller chips.

Like almost 500 W Threadripper is easier to cool down than tiny 125 W i9-9900K, because Threadripper chip and headspreader are very big.

 

But this will only be true for chips up to 8/16 cores/threads.

New 10/20 cores/threads CPU will again be difficult to cool down, because of additional 2/4 cores/threads.

 

Also new Ryzens are easier to cool down not only because of 7 nm, but also because of their bigger size, compared to Intel 1151.

[Groove_C 267]

Also Noctua NH-D15 refresh, with 1 heatpipe more, larger heat spreader and more fins will be released not before the beginning of the next year, most probably because they want to know how big to make the new heat spreader, based on the size of new Intel chips and Threadripper 3 chips.

 

It will make AiO water coolers even more obsolete )))

[Tankbuster 1747]

I don't subscribe to Groove_C's apocalyptic view of water cooling, especially all-in-one systems.

The Internet just isn't full of reports of these systems failing. The POTENTIAL is there, sure and failure of a water cooling system is going to be more damaging, but these just don't fail often.

The fact is, these systems are efficient, quiet, reliable and mature technology, especially if you choose a known, reputable manufacturer. Many have a warranty that covers any expenses arising from a failure.

If you are choosing a cpu that can make a lot of heat, think very carefully before choosing an air cooler.

[oldbear 390]

@Groove_C we know nothing about a possible future Arma.

The only things for which we have certainties is a game that will not evolve.

So I will say again that if we have the budget, to decide to buy hardware, we must base ourselves on the needs and the means to satisfy them "here and now".
2 year plans are mirages.

 

What about Intel 10nm or AMD 6nm CPU? About DDR6 RAM, PCIe 6.0, Wifi 6, 2.5 GbE/GbE Ethernet and so on ? Wait and see what is need and available when the time comes 😎

 

Also new Ryzens are difficult to cool down because of 7 nm. Because of the higher density, the temperature rises are high and fast, this is one of the reasons that lead to OC limitations.

 

@Tankbuster I went back from Corsair AIO to much preferred Noctua NH-U12P SE for my Game#1 i7-7700K rig. It was an interesting experience, and I had learned some lessons.

An AIO is a mature, efficient technology but it must be oversized in order to be as silent as a high end CPU air cooling.

According to the current course of my thinking on this subject, I think that an AIO would be interesting for a very high-level OCed graphics card.

[Groove_C 267]

@Tankbuster efficient? quiet?

so you're just ignoring the benchmarks that show marginal at best temp advantage at at least double the price, more noise, which already can't be called that efficient and quiet + chemical problem between aluminum and copper no matter which additives are present in the system is a fact and not a myth, loss of liquid over time and much greater possibility of failure as well.

Sure, if you reduce pump and fans speed, AiO can match Noctua in noise department, but it will then defy the purpose of buying one, since temps will be same or may be worse, for at least double the price and all the risks/problems than come with it. 

 

It's not normal to pay at least double the price and already look for manufacturers that cover destructive damage costs and also even have to deal with this in the first place.

Loss of money, nerves, a lot of work and time for such a price.

No, thanks.

 

For me, if water, then custom, serviceable and not less than 420/480 mm for "big enough" temp difference at same or lower noise level.

But again, this at best 5-7 °C difference is going to cost you more than 400 €, if not 500 €.

 

Also famous youtubers, like der 8auer or Linus went back to air for a reason for their own high end systems with very high overclock.

And they are not alone.

I know a lot of people myself that already have used several different AiOs before going back to air.

 

[Groove_C 267]

For an AiO to be purchased, instead of an air cooler, it must be similarly priced and be as silent and reliable as an air cooler, which it simply can't be no matter what.

For at least 200% the price, it must provide significantly better temp, not just few % better and this at cost of higher noise level and all the risks.

Paying 25% more for a GPU for not more than 10% FPS difference, there are people that do this.

But buying a graphic card that is 10% faster but costs at least 200% or more...

I doubt that anyone present here will do this.

Not even talking about potential risks, in case with AiOs.

So why do this in case with AiOs?

8 hours ago, Tankbuster said:

If you are choosing a cpu that can make a lot of heat, think very carefully before choosing an air cooler.

Sure, at some point water cooling is needed, but not AiO. Rather something bigger and thicker than 360 mm 30 mm AiOs and also custom and serviceable. Something like 420 (3x140) or 480 (4x120) mm with 45 mm thickness.

I'm not against water cooling, no.

There just isn't any justfication for AiOs, considering price/performance, noise and failure risks.

Custom loops are of better quality, lower noise and temps and if anything were to fail, one can quickly order spares of anything and have it running again the same week.

 

@oldbear 7 nm generates more heat (vs. 14 nm), if you OC to same frequencies as Intel and with same small heatspreader as Intel and with monolithic chip, which is not the case with AMD.

Ryzens operate at lower frequencies, chips are not monolithic but several separated chips and with some distance between them and larger than Intel heatspreader.

So this compensates a little for 7 nm process.

 

So following your logic, if you were to buy a new PC now, you would have bought something like i5-9600K or i7-9700K with a RX 590/GTX 1660Ti.

And when next major title from BI will be released, you will lower some settings and try to keep your rig as long as possible.

I don't have the same approach, which is why I upgrade less often, but have very good performance and visuals, despite the age of my hardware and spend less money unnecessarily.

 

And yes, depending on performance level of current hardware we have, we can clearly see if an upgrade is urgent or if FPS and visuals level can be tolerated until next year, when Ryzen will have higher frequences and lower latencies or Intel with larger/cooler chips and more affordable 8/16 cores/threads (vs. now), because it won't be the top model anymore, but will rather be considered like i7-9700K now, second best.

 

PCI-E 5.0 and DDR5 are not needed and will be to expensive for what we will see as performance difference, if any, if these standards will come to average consumer market in 2021-2022.

Top GPUs, like RTX 2080Ti or RX 5700 XT almost can't benefit from additional bandwidth from PCI-E 4.0 and there are no games available that can even saturate average dual channel DDR4 RAM sticks bandwidth, not even talking quad channel.

Several years from now are needed for next gen power hungry games to appear, that will somehow only start to saturate (maybe) high end DDR4 and PCI-E 4.0 bandwidth.

[Firebird-B4L 51]

thanks guys wow, cha ching, love the help...thanks for being here.😍

[Groove_C 267]

I'm even sure now, that next year's Intel Comet Lake S chips will be bigger, because 10/20 cores/threads can't fit on the same chip size as 8/16 cores/threads, considering it will be "same" 14 nm.

And I'm also sure, that chips with less cores/threads will have same size as 10/20 cores/threads chip, based on the chip size for i3-9350K (4 cores only), which is same as 8/16 cores/threads i9-9900K.

Good move from Intel.

So 8/16 cores/threads Comet Lake S will be a little bit cooler.

6/12 cores/threads even more.

[oldbear 390]

@Groove_C Well ... it seems we are not living in the same semantic space.

 

Here I have summarize my suggestions to our friend ...

- CPU : Intel Core i9-9900K with 5.00 GHz Max Turbo Frequency.
- Cooling :  Noctua NH-D15 CPU Cooler
- RAM : DDR4 32 GB 3200 MHz

- GPU : RTX 2070 Super [allowing to play in 1440p]

- Drive : 1To NVMe M.2 SSD

- PSU : 800/850W

... far from the caricature written in your last post.

 

The "here and now" moto is directly related to reality elements such as the budget, the availability of hardware, the imminent release of a new product or its upcoming obsolescence.

When I bought my game#1 hardware : i7-7700K/GTX 1060 6 GB in 2017, it was the best I can afford then, and by chance it was a good pick.

 

 

[Groove_C 267]

@oldbear the list of hardware you propose here is exactly what I would have bought if I were to buy a new PC now.

So after all, our vision is not that different.

May be higher clocked and with aggressive timings RAM vs. 3200 MHz.

[Gunter Severloh 4067]

5 hours ago, oldbear said:

- RAM : DDR4 32 GB 3200 MHz 

Is the ram speed at 3200 based on the limits of the motherboard, price, or can it go higher?

[Groove_C 267]

54 minutes ago, Gunter Severloh said:

Is the ram speed at 3200 based on the limits of the motherboard, price, or can it go higher?

Based on price only.

There are modules that can go past 4000 MHz and mainboards and CPUs that can support it.

 

But I wouldn't go past 3600 MHz.

Better buy 32 GB 3600 MHz CL16 and then try to lower timings as much as possible.

And also better buy 2x16 GB rather than 4x8 GB. Because 2x16 GB sticks will be dual ranked and will give additional few FPS vs. single rank modules.

 

G.Skill Trident Z Neo 2x16 GB CL16 cost around 320€, which is still not the end of the world, compared to other sticks, that cost 500-700€.

[Gunter Severloh 4067]

Just wondering why he went with 3200 and not something higher.

 

[Groove_C 267]

Perfectly fine for A3 ultra 1440p and even for next ArmA.

 

I have now troubles with my mobo since several weeks. Freezes, no internet connection from time to time, Wi-Fi and RJ-45 etc.

CPU temp never even 60°C and voltage is on the safe side.

Hope it will survive until summer 2020 so I can upgrade, even if I really don't want to.

Don't want to invest anymore in 2014 rig.

 

What I've found as info concerning Comet Lake S is that the i7-10700K will have 8/16 cores/threads, 100 MHz more all cores boost than i9-9900K (4.8 vs. 4.7 GHz)  and roughly same price as i7-9700K now.

No idea concerning AMD. Have heard them may be with SMT that can split one core in 4 threads instead of 2, but not sure.

Hope Comet Lake S will have PCI-E 4.0 but I don't think so.

Since RX 5700 XT on PCI-E 4.0 vs. PCI-E 3.0 can give 5-10 FPS more, depending on the game. And it's not even the most powerful AMD GPU.

[oldbear 390]

On the RAM topic, I was thinking about DDR4 32 GB 3200 MHz C14 [14-14-14-34]

 

On the CPU topic ...

if the point of view to be considered is strictly the game with Arma3, AMD is not in the race, the ribbon is blue in 9th or 10th blend.
if the point of view to be considered is more generally the game with current AAA, a Ryzen 9 3900X is a serious candidate as will probably be next Ryzen3 flagship [to be confirmed].

... in both cases accompanied by a current high level graphic card .

From my point of view, there is no choice, the RTX 2070 Super seems to present the best balance today.

[Groove_C 267]

i9-9900K has same or better overall framerate than R9 3900X in games like Metro Exodus, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Assasin's Creed Odyssey, Far Cry5, The Division 2 and Battlefield 5.

But R9 3900X has more stable/calm/fluid framerate and its threads load is most of the time lower than 50%, whereas i9-9900K threads load tends to go above 50%.

 

Here one can see the % of frames skipped by i9-9900K vs R9 3900X in The Division 2, while streaming with OBS in 1080p (CBR - constant bitrate) 10.000 bitrate slow preset at different FPS locks.

i9-9900K skips 82% of frames at 60 FPS lock whereas R9 3900X skips only 1.1% of frames, which results in much much more fluid visual experience.

R9 3900X skips only 1.7 % of frames even at 70 FPS lock, which is still very fluid.

R9 3900X skips 62% of frames only when FPS lock is raised to 80 FPS.

i9-9900K skips 3.2% of frames only if FPS lock is lowered to 40 FPS and the stutter is still very noticeable.

R7 3700X skips 5.1% of frames at same 40 FPS lock as i9-9900K.

 

[Groove_C 267]

Well, if you don't stream, it's not a problem to have "only" 12/16 threads, or if you stream at only 30 FPS, fast preset and less than 10.000 bitrate.

But again, in cores/threads hungry games, visual experience is more fluid with 12/24 cores/threads R9 3900X, despite same or lower FPS than with i9-9900K.

And this is in already existing games. Not even talking about near future games.

 

So may be it's worth to consider 10/20 cores/threads Comet Lake S i9 after all.

Optimal frequency for ArmA and more reserves for next years.

[Gunter Severloh 4067]

Hey guys have some questions about ram i need to clear up which i probably should have asked in 2017 when i bought all the parts

for my current rig but i was looking at my task manager today and seeing this for my ram speed http://prntscr.com/pljv2z

speed says 2133mhz so apparently this is the base clock speed when you put the sticks in as i haven't nor have i ever overclocked anything.

 

This is the ram i bought back in 2017, at the time i paid $348.99

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232297?Item=N82E16820232297&Tpk=N82E16820232297

if you go to specifications, it says DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) the 3600 what i understand is the speed at which the ram can be overclocked too correct?

 

This is the motherboard i bought at the same time:

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813188186

Under the specifications tab i see numbers including 3600(OC)

the (OC) means overclock correct?

 

The rest of my specs:

• CPU - Intel Core i7-7700K Kaby Lake Quad-Core 4.2 GHz
• Motherboard - EVGA Z270 FTW K
• GPU - EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 8gb SC2 GAMING iCX
• Ram - G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB)
• PSU - EVGA SuperNOVA 1000w P2 220-P2-1000-XR
• Heatsink/CPU Fan - Cryorig H7 Tower Cooler

• Case - Rosewill Gaming ATX Full Tower Computer Case

These parts btw were recommended by Oldbear and a friend of mine who is a freelance computer tech has his own business.

 

Lastly i never overclocked anything on my computer or any previous computers i built so i dont know really how,

i know you need to go to the Bios which after all this time i think i forgot how, i think its apon start go to F2 correct?

How do i overclock the ram and what to overclock it too for this ram?

 

I read one feedback on the ram on that page was the guy overclocked to 3600 but it wasn't stable, and was stable under

3450 i think he said, what you guys suggest?

 

[Groove_C 267]

@Gunter Severloh lol man, all this time you've been using your RAM not at rated speed of 3600 MHz but at basic 2133 MHz, so 60% slower.

You have to press "DEL" several times when you turn on your PC in order to enter the BIOS.

Then go to MEMORY tab -> Memory Multiplier Configuration -> Memory Profiles and instead of Automatic, choose XMP Profile. There can be 1 or 2 profiles.

That's it. No OC. Just pointing your memory to its profile, so it knows its specs.

[Gunter Severloh 4067]

2 hours ago, Groove_C said:

lol man, all this time you've been using your RAM not at rated speed of 3600 MHz but at basic 2133 MHz, so 60% slower.

😄 Ya idk something i never learned about overclocking

and after all this time, and this is my 3rd computer build in the past 12yrs too.

I knew about the bios just since the last i worked on the computer which was shit 2yrs ago this month i never did anything else to it

so i forgot how to access it, i thought it was either F1 or delete.

 

Made the adjustment, i must laugh again but now the computer starts up extremely fast, gees what a difference in performance

before it would take a couple minutes to boot up, now its like less then 30 seconds, i cant imagine what the game is going to be like now, lol

heres where the ram is at now http://prntscr.com/plm0k3

 

[Groove_C 267]

@Gunter Severloh so imagine 4000 or 4200 MHz performance )))

If you don't consider the price.

[Gunter Severloh 4067]

Ya that would be insane, i was looking at some G.Skill sticks at that range even 4600mhz, your looking at $700 or better for them, but ya

if your all for performance and having a great game and are dedicated to the game then you could justify the "need"

i paid --->  G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 3600Mhz - $348.99 for what i bought. In total i spent about close to 2k for my setup.

 

I have currently 3 WD 500gb SSD's http://prntscr.com/plmxt9

one for my games Arma3 and mods, one for the OS (C drive), and one for storage.

I only bought one of them, the other 2 i got from my work free 😉 read the story:

 

    I work in a warehouse, our account is GM as in General Motors, and one of my jobs is to unload freight and sort it and reload that freight and send it back out to GM (another GM plant).

One day in 2017 September i think it was me and another were at the end of this 53' trailer, im sorting some freight we put on the floor and out comes my partner and he hands me this box

hes like what is it?

The box which had nothing to do with car parts was a brand new unopened box --- >  pic

 

  Brand new 2 WD 500gb SSD drives in the box, so somehow the drives got onto the trailer with the car parts, and i mean these trailers are pretty packed from

front to rear, apparently the shipping carrier we use also ships electronics and other things on the same trailer, lol well my partner asked me what is it, at first i had

no idea as i never used an SSD in any of my builds, i opened the box, and realized it was an SSD, i was like oh hell ya, these are about $200 a piece and i got not one but 2 of them for FREE!

 

[Tankbuster 1747]

YAAB results.
no XMP (2400 c17) 39 FPS
XMP1 (3333 c16) 44.4 FPS

XMP2 (3000 c15) 42.3 FPS

 

 

[Gunter Severloh 4067]

YAAB Results

 

Specs

CPU - Intel Core i7-7700K Kaby Lake Quad-Core 4.2 GHz (not overclocked)

Mobo - EVGA Z270 FTW K

GPU - EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 8gb SC2 GAMING iCX

Ram - G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) (currently set at 3600mhz) https://prnt.sc/plm0k3

PSU - EVGA SuperNOVA 1000w P2 220-P2-1000-XR

==============

Ultra settings, AI set to custom, view distance at 1800

https://i.imgur.com/kAR2Tiu.jpg

 

Standard settings AI set to normal, view distance at 1800

https://i.imgur.com/ZpmACKk.jpg

 

Would probably be in the high 30 low 40fps range if my ram was set at base which is 2133mhz

[Tankbuster 1747]

Yes, that's why I posted a comparison.