Will-my-pc-run-Arma3? What cpu/gpu to get? What settings? What system specifications?

[oldbear 390]

Of course ... the Noctua NH-D15 is one of the best you can get 😎

[Groove_C 267]

@Reezo you live in US?

You plan to buy new RAM and mainboard or it will come from your 2700X system?

[Reezo 45]

7 hours ago, oldbear said:

Of course ... the Noctua NH-D15 is one of the best you can get 😎

 

Awesome! My years of gaming taught me something even if I am very new to this level of PC-building (I do know how to do it but I am not an expert, like you and many people in here are!)

 

4 hours ago, Groove_C said:

@Reezo you live in US?

You plan to buy new RAM and mainboard or it will come from your 2700X system?

 

I live in Germany. I am pretty sure the motherboard will stay the same, an Asus x470-f Gaming. The CPU is already on it, a 2700x as I wrote and the RAM *might change*. I have a pair of Corsair Vengeance LPX CL16 that I was able to bring up to 3467 MHz and tighten the timings as much as possible, but I'd like to get a couple of B-Die CL14, probably G-Skill RGB .. too bad I gave that pair to my wife for her computer 😉 I miiiiiiiight get it back tho 😉 but since this Vengeance pair can be returned I can safely order something else without loosing money.

 

We also got the case! It's a Phanteks Enthoo Evolv X, black. Lovely, I am picking it up tomorrow. The PSU is a TT Berlin 630W (pretty appropriate name).

 

Given the sensitivity to thermals for AMD Ryzens and CBO I am going to give my best to set up a number of TT Riing RGB fans to keep it all super cool.

 

For now I am testing with RealBench and I got from 31 seconds in single thread (GIMP) and 31 seconds in Video Encoding to 27, just by bringing the DRAM to higher clocks and then tightening the timings. CPU OC is something I can't seem to do effectively, I am keeping the VCore at 1.39 as I noticed it allows PBO to stay higher at 4.2 GHz Single and 4.0 Multi Core.

 

I can't believe it's coming together! I have a few days before this adventure starts, the rule of the game is I cannot launch ArmA 3 before the first stream, it has to be all a first one in front of all.. Darn I should probably announce this on the forum, right?! (I told my friends I am not that good of a streamer!)

 

I wanted to take this chance once again to thank @Oldbear and @Groove_C because your contributions to this thread alone are immense. You guys rock!

[Reezo 45]

7 hours ago, oldbear said:

Of course ... the Noctua NH-D15 is one of the best you can get 😎 

 

I know this might not be the right place to digress but .. a lot of people have talked me out water cooling, which I thought would be more expensive but also more effective. This does not seem to be the trend? I gotta find time to sit and read about it, of course. Just curious if there's a specific trend per CPU, meaning Ryzens, Intel etc..

[Tankbuster 1733]

9 hours ago, Reezo said:

 

I know this might not be the right place to digress but .. a lot of people have talked me out water cooling, which I thought would be more expensive but also more effective. This does not seem to be the trend? I gotta find time to sit and read about it, of course. Just curious if there's a specific trend per CPU, meaning Ryzens, Intel etc..

Opinions differ. 🙂

Water cooling removes more heat and shunts it out of the case better. Typically they are quieter too. But it's more expensive to buy, harder to install and the consequences of a failure are dire.

I never went for the full-blown custom water loops with lots of pipe, pumps and radiators, though know of two guys who have lovely setups that work well. I have owned 3 AIO systems that have served me faultlessly since the middle of 2011. All were Corsair.

 

Air cooling systems are said to be more reliable, though I know of no watercooling failures within my circle, they are always cheaper and simpler to install. Overall they take up less room inside the case, though the bit where they are bulky - the radiator/fan block is right on the middle of the motherboard, so slim cases will sometimes be too small.

 

Now, someone is going to come along soon and tell you that watercooling systems are the spawn of the devil and kill kittens. I think, all things considered, that water-cooling system are more the domain of the experienced, knowledgable user, often someone who builds their own computers. That's not to say these people won't choose and air-coolers, they often do, but air coolers are the very much simpler option. If you are going to overclock, most advice will be to use a water cooling system.

 

As regards Ryzen and Intel choices, at the moment, Ryzens are consuming more power and exhausting more heat at the moment, but there isn't much in it and this might all change soon.

[Groove_C 267]

9 hours ago, Tankbuster said:

Water cooling removes more heat and shunts it out of the case better. Typically they are quieter too.

 

Ryzens are consuming more power and exhausting more heat.

Actually a high end air cooler like Noctua NH-D15 has a much greater radiator surface than any 280/360 mm AiO radiator, since AiO radiators, are 30 mm thick per 1 fan and if it has 2 fans, each in front of a 30 mm thick radiator, it's 60 mm thick for 280 mm AiO and for 360 mm AiO with 3 fans it's 90 mm thick, whereas Noctua is 50 mm thick in front of each of its 2 fans, which makes for total thickness of 100 mm vs. 90 mm for 360 mm AiO. But a 360 mm AiO is only 120 mm in width, whereas Noctua rad is 150 mm in width, so...

 

And AiO can be as silent as a high end air cooler or even more, but it will result in higher temp.

For an AiO to be like 5°C cooler than Noctua NH-D15, it must have its pump and fans running at max rpms, which will result in over 50 dB noise, whereas Noctua can achieve max 43-44 dB, since its fans can't go past 1500 rpms.

 

And it's Intel CPUs that are hotter, because of still 14 nm technology from 2015, despite almost 2020.

Ryzen CPUs are produced using 7 nm technology and don't need water-cooling at all.

Or you maybe can explain to me, how Ryzen with much much newer technology and with much much lower frequency than Intel, can run hotter?

 

Have your "facts" straight, before posting misleading info.

 

NH-D15 is 5°C hotter than NZXT Kraken X62 (280 mm AiO), but it's only due to it not being able to run at higher fans rpms.

NZXT Kraken X62 (280 mm AiO) beats it only by 5°C only by having its fans and pump running full throttle, which results in much more noise.

If you adjust a 280 mm AiO to same noise level as NH-D15, it will perform same or worse.

So paying much more, for only 5°C and more noise is not a wise choice.

If you adjust your AiO to operate silently, then there is 0 gains from the AiO, since it will be on same level or worse than and air-cooler, but for a lot more $$$.

The only one could be aesthetics or lack of place in a specific case.

[Groove_C 267]

@Tankbuster

 

Your Corsair H115i must run full throttle, hence performance profile, to be 5°C cooler (60°C) than Noctua NH-D15 (65.5°C), at higher noise than Noctua, of course.

 

360 mm Corsair AiO H150i Pro RGB in quiet mode is only 1°C cooler and in balanced mode only 2°C cooler, for a much much higher price.

Your 280 mm Corsair AiO at balanced or silent is even worse than Noctua and more expensive )))

 

For like 7°C less then Noctua, 360 mm top Corsair AiOs must run in extreme profile, with over 2000 rpms, which is unsupportable, even if doable.

 

And this is only an i7-6700K (8 threads). Not even an i7-8700K (12 threads) or i9-9900K (16 threads).

 

Btw, a more powerful replacement for Noctua NH-D15 is on its way, also from Noctua )))

Even more radiator surface and more heatpipes, but same size of the cooler.

[Groove_C 267]

18 hours ago, Reezo said:

I am pretty sure the motherboard will stay the same, an Asus x470-f Gaming. I have a pair of Corsair Vengeance LPX CL16 that I was able to bring up to 3467 MHz and tighten the timings as much as possible, but I'd like to get a couple of B-Die CL14, probably G-Skill RGB ... but since this Vengeance pair can be returned I can safely order something else without loosing money.

Your mainboard RAM slots layout is T-topology, which means, that for proper operation you have to have all 4 slots populated and just 2. Otherwise RAM/performance can suffer.

Your board supports up to 3600 MHz RAM.

Playing Arma 3 for several hours, without disconnecting/restarting, can lead to RAM usage, that exceeds 16 GB, even if Arma is the only thing you have running, not counting Discord, Steam, Skype, Teamspeak.

So 32 GB RAM would be more appropriate, if you can afford it.

It should be 4x8 GB and not 2x16 GB, since your mainboard is T-topology.

Your 3200 MHz 16-18-18-36 RAM is the weak spot in your system. Even if/when you "OC" it, the performance almost doesn't improve, since you upper its frequency, but since it doesn't have Samsung B-Die memory chips, but instead has crappy Hynix/Micron memory chips, you can't really tighten the timings.

3200 MHz 14-14-14-34 RAM has Samsung B-Die memory chips and this is a safe bet, yes. You can OC it to 3600 MHz 14-15-15-35 @ 1.4V or 3600 MHz 15-15-15-35 @ 1.35V.

BUT!
There is even a better option than this, since you can get 3600 MHz out of the box, which will be cheaper than 3200 MHz 14-14-14-34, since the timings are very loose (17-18-18-38), but this are still same Samsung B-Die memory chips.

You can simply apply XMP in the BIOS and simply manually change 5 timings from 17-18-18-38 to 14-15-15-35 @ 1.4V or 15-15-15-35 @ 1.35V and save some money vs. 3200 MHz 14-14-14-34 😏

 

Here you have them 3600 MHz 17-18-18-38 (Samsung B-Die):

2x this: (246/256€)  https://geizhals.de/g-skill-trident-z-schwarz-weiss-dimm-kit-16gb-f4-3600c17d-16gtzkw-a1505573.html

or

1x this: (279€)  https://geizhals.de/g-skill-trident-z-rgb-dimm-kit-32gb-f4-3600c17q-32gtzr-a1561114.html

 

It's (much much) cheaper than 3200 MHz 14-14-14-34 (Samsung B-Die):

2x this: (270€) https://geizhals.de/g-skill-trident-z-schwarz-weiss-dimm-kit-16gb-f4-3200c14d-16gtzkw-a1464588.html

2x this: (274€) https://geizhals.de/g-skill-trident-z-silber-schwarz-dimm-kit-16gb-f4-3200c14d-16gtzsk-a1464600.html

2x this:  (316€) https://geizhals.de/g-skill-trident-z-rgb-dimm-kit-16gb-f4-3200c14d-16gtzrx-a1734617.html

2x this: (326€) https://geizhals.de/g-skill-trident-z-rgb-dimm-kit-16gb-f4-3200c14d-16gtzr-a1564332.html

2x this: (336€) https://geizhals.de/g-skill-trident-z-neo-dimm-kit-16gb-f4-3200c14d-16gtzn-a2099406.html

1x this (345€) https://geizhals.de/g-skill-trident-z-rgb-dimm-kit-32gb-f4-3200c14q-32gtzr-a1561066.html

1x this: (349€) https://geizhals.de/g-skill-trident-z-rgb-dimm-kit-32gb-f4-3200c14q-32gtzrx-a1734614.html
1x this: (354€) https://geizhals.de/g-skill-trident-z-neo-dimm-kit-32gb-f4-3200c14q-32gtzn-a2099479.html

 

RAM of high frequency combined with tightest possible timings, it alone, in Arma, can upper your FPS a lot, especially on Ryzen.

[Reezo 45]

@Tankbuster many thanks for the info! You are definitely one of the others whose posts I've been avidly reading, it's great to be able to thank you "in person". Along with @Groove_C I gotta thank you for all the info.

 

Today we got the case and I am going to build the main elements tomorrow, the idea about the 3600 RAM is amazing, I am going to go for it!

Water cooling looks awesome, I gotta admit it. I might have a weak spot for it. However the Noctua is incredibly easy to set up and kind of straight-forward. I am still not entirely sure on which way to get. You guys provided some great intel!

[Groove_C 267]

@Reezo

If your mainboard/CPU is not willing to operate at 3600 MHz, you can always set your RAM to 3433 MHz, but with 3200 MHz timings, by upping RAM voltage to 1.4-1.45V (harmless).

[Reezo 45]

@Groove_C I seem to have found these, at the moment, they check out as B-Die and currently in-stock. Ok, not RGB but..

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B017WSND7O/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=F4-3600C17D-16GVK&qid=1577474084&sr=8-3

 

I am allowing you to give a double check before I commit, these would be in budget.. If I find any other kit, I will update/edit this post.

 

UPDATE:

This as well (But 1 left in stock), although RGB maybe not as good as the one above?

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B075NVJNL3/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=CMR16GX4M2C3600C18W&qid=1577474415&sr=8-3

 

UPDATE 2:

This as well, 1 in stock, maybe better than the above but on par with the top one..

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B01LD8278A/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=F4-3600C17D-16GTZKW&qid=1577474548&sr=8-1

[Groove_C 267]

@Reezo

Yes, exactly same Samsung B-Die chips, just less expensive, because no RGB bling bling and simpler looking heatsink.

Honestly, it's too expensive on amazon.de.

Here you can buy them for 216€ at computeruniverse or for 228€ at Mindfactory.
https://geizhals.de/g-skill-ripjaws-v-schwarz-dimm-kit-16gb-f4-3600c17d-16gvk-a1354123.html

 

In both shops you don't have to register. You can purchase as guest.

 

Corsair is not B-Die, has shitty chips.

The last one (black/white) is B-Die, yes.

[Reezo 45]

Quick update on the developments: we'll be getting a 3800x on Monday, along with 32GB of the above RAM and the Noctua NH-D14 (dual fan).

 

I cannot believe we are pulling it off and I already have to thank some amazing donors that are willing to part from some components they had laying around, without being asked twice. I promise I'll make it worth everybody's while.

 

We're currently all on Discord watching some i7 9700k vs Ryzen 3800x comparisons on YouTube (I started it) and it's great to see how the two CPUs battle pretty equally.

 

We're still in time and able to get an i7 maybe, before I commit to the build, but the 3800x is looking pretty good, I admit!

 

I don't want to monopolize this thread but it goes without saying that it would be a duplicate to open any other thread.

 

Thanks again,

[Groove_C 267]

@Reezo A NH-D14 can potentially collide with high profil RAM, unlike NH-D15, which has cutouts to avoid this.

R7 3800X has double the threads and more than double the cache vs. i7-9700K.

 

[Reezo 45]

Hi @Groove_C

 

there's been a change of plan in the last 10 minutes.. unfortunately we cannot get the AMD rig (it's going to get used by another friend of mine) so we are aiming at a i7 9700k on a Gigabyte z390 Aorus Master. Huge change of plans, that's true, but that's the nature of the beast as we are a startup and lots of things are being moved around. The ram is still staying, so here is what seems to be the final list:

 

• Gigabyte Z390 AORUS Master
• Intel i7 9700k
• G SKill Ripjaws V Black F4 3600 C17 (maybe 4x8 definitely 2x8 though)
• Noctua NH-D14 or 15 (I'll check that the former does not create issues with the RAM, good find)
• Asus Rog Strix 2070 Super
• Phanteks Evolv X Mid-Tower ATX Case
• Thermaltake Riing 12 fans
• Optional GPU Card riser, we might or not show off

 

I've never changed so many computers in so little time!

[Groove_C 267]

9700K can be easily OC'ed to 5.0 GHz all cores from 4.6 GHz all cores stock, with Noctua air cooler.

Past that, it will be too hot and FPS won't improve anyways.

[Groove_C 267]

If it will be exactly this Intel mainboard, with this RAM you can do 3800 MHz 14-15-15-35 or 15-15-15-35 or 4000 MHz 16-17-17-32 or 4200 MHz 17-17-17-36.

Not only RAM voltage will need to be adjusted, but SA (system agent/ memory controller) voltage as well + I/O Analog/Digital voltage.

You can ask for help or read about RAM OC here:
https://www.computerbase.de/forum/threads/intel-core-i-serie-ram-overclocking-auswirkungen-auf-spiele.1849970/page-72#post-23435497

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/threads/intel-coffee-lake-ram-oc-thread-guides-und-tipps.1230518/

[Reezo 45]

2 minutes ago, Groove_C said:

I f it will be exactly this Intel mainboard, with this RAM you can go 3800 MHz 14-15-15-35 or 15-15-15-35 or 4000 MHz 16-17-17-32 or 4200 MHz 17-17-17-36.

Not only RAM voltage will need to be adjusted, but SA (system agent/ memory controller) voltage as well + I/O Analog/Digital voltage.

 

We called it a day a few minutes ago and there's lots of things on the table.

For sure the 3800x is not going to be here, so that leaves us - for sure - with two platforms:

• Gigabyte Z390 AORUS Master, Intel i7 9700k

and

• Asus Rog Strix x470-f gaming, AMD Ryzen 2700x

 

RAM is going to be the same, video card the same, etc. eveything else.. the same.

 

In a bit of time we will be able to get a 3700x, which is looking really good in all I've read.

 

For sure the i7 build is going to cost us quite a bit more, namely 600-ish something. That's quite a lot at the moment for our budgets. But yeah, for pure gaming, it will definitely fly.

 

On the other hand, the AMD build with the 2700x, comes to us FREE of charge, because it's mine. Getting a 3700x on it will be a cool step, too. Not free, but not as steep as the whole Intel build (and that's because I already have the x470-f).

 

There's a lot to consider, including the possible charity auction for those, which is going to be steeper for the Intel build, which means less money will - theoretically - be going to charity (considering our initial expenses).

 

Quite quite hard to untangle. I gotta say the 2700x with possible 3700x upgrade is looking really good. I also believe that gaming+streaming becomes something of an advantage for the AMD platform, although ultimately.. it will be probably impossible to notice unless I have an FPS counter on.

 

Last but not least.. how come AMD gaming looks smoother to me than Intel, even if the numbers show lower FPS? This is a mystery my brain does not want to compute 🙂

[Groove_C 267]

More cache and more threads vs. 9700K. That's it.

[Groove_C 267]

@Reezo one can observe 80 FPs and it will not be fluent and one can observe "only" 40 FPS, but experience a much more fluent gameplay (it's called frametime - smoothness).

R7 3700X delivers superior smoothness vs. 9700K, thanks to more threads and cache.

Costs less, heat is not a concern and it's more future-proof.

 

Measuring/looking only at FPS is a thing of past and is actually completely wrong.

[Tankbuster 1733]

14 hours ago, Reezo said:

@Tankbuster many thanks for the info! You are definitely one of the others whose posts I've been avidly reading, it's great to be able to thank you "in person". Along with @Groove_C I gotta thank you for all the info.

 

Today we got the case and I am going to build the main elements tomorrow, the idea about the 3600 RAM is amazing, I am going to go for it!

Water cooling looks awesome, I gotta admit it. I might have a weak spot for it. However the Noctua is incredibly easy to set up and kind of straight-forward. I am still not entirely sure on which way to get. You guys provided some great intel!

Thank you. 🙂 I read somewhere there's a new Deepcool that is said to be as good as, if not better than the NH-D15. Both are still big and heavy so be aware of the chunk of metal you're hanging off your motherboard and potentially obstructing RAM slots.

[Reezo 45]

11 hours ago, Groove_C said:

More cache and more threads vs. 9700K. That's it. 

 

11 hours ago, Groove_C said:

@Reezo one can observe 80 FPs and it will not be fluent and one can observe "only" 40 FPS, but experience a much more fluent gameplay (it's called frametime - smoothness).

R7 3700X delivers superior smoothness vs. 9700K, thanks to more threads and cache.

Costs less, heat is not a concern and it's more future-proof.

 

Measuring/looking only at FPS is a thing of past and is actually completely wrong.

 

For as weird as it seemed, I thought I'd be going insane but I was also taking the streaming platform into account.. being all encoded videos, after all, put one next to the other (be it on YouTube or somewhere else). It's kinda weird as one has to look at the numbers as the video is encoded at (let's say) 60 fps, meaning both platforms will in the end be rendered at 60 fps, so the two games playing or benchmarks running are only a cameo.. the number is what matters. However, even in real life comparisons at some trade fairs, I've always thought "hey that's smooth!" and now it seems I wasn't completely crazy 🙂

 

 

1 hour ago, Tankbuster said:

Thank you. 🙂 I read somewhere there's a new Deepcool that is said to be as good as, if not better than the NH-D15. Both are still big and heavy so be aware of the chunk of metal you're hanging off your motherboard and potentially obstructing RAM slots.

 

We just received a Deepcool Castle 240 (360 would have been also awesome!) and that's some coincidence. I might install it in the rig, we'll see. It should be more than enough for running the Ryzen honestly as we're planning to let it do its thing and go with PBO. Even a 3700x at 1.35v seems steady and reliable during OC. We'll see, certainly looks great and I don't cut my hands on the fin blades! 🙂

[Groove_C 267]

@Reezo 240 mm AiO is nowhere near NH-D15, at same or lower noise, but as Ryzen 3700X is not as hot as an i9-9900K, 240 mm AiO should be more than enough. Sexy and compact.

[Reezo 45]

@Groove_C true, we viewed and read many reviews/reports and I totally agree. Also, cheaper and technically (even if no faults have been reported.. but still on a merely technical basis) safer than water. However you already wrote what was our thinking exactly: we won’t be pushing the CPU (I don’t think there’s much to manually OC in the latest Ryzens, at least 2x00 and 3x00) so we won’t be running hot. Sexy and compact.. yes, that I also agree 😉 We got a mint unopened 240EX for half the price plus free shipping. We have to also consider budgets all the time because times are hard, we are a startup and this will be mostly aimed at good will and charity.

 

I have some pictures that I will post soon, I am building the system now! 🙂

[Groove_C 267]

@Reezo https://www.computerbase.de/forum/threads/amd-ryzen-ram-oc-community.1829356/