1.54 Fatigue is too Unrealistic

[sargken 286]

The Fact that you can constantly sprint but then at the very end to go a fast walk I think is a step back. The setup before where your speed for running would slowly go down until you recoup your stamina i think is a way better setup. It is more realistic at least in my opinion. If you have the same opinion or different post it here i would like to see what others have to say.

[fabio_chavez 103]

i think they should put much more effort into a hyper specific and complex fatigue and weapon handling system. realism, realism, realism.
its not like there are other problematic areas of concerne so why not endlessly fiddle with basic gameplay systems in the middle of the life-cycle of a game, especially when its guaranteed that you will never get everyone satisfied because the acceptance of the feature is completely dependent on individual preferences.

[austin_medic 109]

The system is brutal now is brutal. It's COMPLETELY arcadish and is obviously trying to cater to the casual audience. It goes against everything that arma is about thats for sure. How the hell is it realistic to be able to run forever, even worse it doesn't take your stance into account at all now really. If your crouched fatigue decreases the same amount as standing up sprinting. Having your weapon raised all the time doesn't hurt fatigue at all. They tried to fix something that was not broken and they have botched it completely.

 

Just another thing I need to make a script for to achieve similar functionality to the old system because BIS has obviously chosen which side of the fence they want to be on to empty as many wallets as possible.

[chortles 263]

Just another thing I need to make a script for to achieve similar functionality to the old system because BIS has obviously chosen which side of the fence they want to be on to empty as many wallets as possible.

Take a look in the Arma 3 Samples and you'll find Test_LegacyFatigue, see how close it comes.

[austin_medic 109]

Take a look in the Arma 3 Samples and you'll find Test_LegacyFatigue, see how close it comes.

That isn't close enough for me. It simply disables sprinting at 50% stamina and doesn't do anything beyond that. The old system you could still sprint but you would cover less ground with each step when fatigued. Basically just confirms that without mods your SoL.

[sargken 286]

I want the relism back into the system now its for all the casual gamers your completely right.

[Corvinus 35]

The setup before where your speed for running would slowly go down until you recoup your stamina i think is a way better setup.

 

Agreed.

[Beagle 684]

The strange weapon sway that was known to this day only from arcade shooters like STALKER, Hitman etc. not finally made it to ArmA, Im army reservist and sports shooter and I use guns ranging from .22 pistols to .308 rifles on a regular basis and never, never have I seen such an aimign behavior exept for 6 years olds trying to aim granddads Carbine. Even my Girlfriend that has no experience in shooting does not aim that shaky way. BIS you have finally destroyed and disqualified your game as an Simulation and have entered the realm of arcade. Be proud.

 

A quick note to the last:  A Medium to heavy MG on a bipod does not have anny muzzlre climb, sway or recoil at all for the gunner to notice...you got even that wrong.

[djotacon 190]

To me the new fatigue is near to the perfection.

 

First you can only jog - not run - with a severe penalty with fatigue.

 

Second with excesive equipment your sprint value is severe reduced.

 

Now the sprint is the new run mode and like a human body you can only jog when your stamine is low.

 

Exactly like a human body of an well trained soldier, to me this update is full of common sense.

 

"It's COMPLETELY arcadish"... XD.. now is more realistic than ever.

[djotacon 190]

The strange weapon sway that was known to this day only from arcade shooters like STALKER, Hitman etc. not finally made it to ArmA, Im army reservist and sports shooter and I use guns ranging from .22 pistols to .308 rifles on a regular basis and never, never have I seen such an aimign behavior exept for 6 years olds trying to aim granddads Carbine. Even my Girlfriend that has no experience in shooting does not aim that shaky way. BIS you have finally destroyed and disqualified your game as an Simulation and have entered the realm of arcade. Be proud.

 

A quick note to the last:  A Medium to heavy MG on a bipod does not have anny muzzlre climb, sway or recoil at all for the gunner to notice...you got even that wrong.

 

The full sway is only relate to heavy weapons and fatigue effects without fatigue and proper weapon you can shoot best than ever.

 

The arcade shooter dont have this sway and you can shoot and sprint even carriying an anti-material rifle (see bf4 for that).

 

Right now the sway is perfect to avoid the "MG shooter tank" that before can shoot in every position.

[Beagle 684]

The full sway is only relate to heavy weapons and fatigue effects without fatigue and proper weapon you can shoot best than ever.

 

The arcade shooter dont have this sway and you can shoot and sprint even carriying an anti-material rifle (see bf4 for that).

 

Right now the sway is perfect to avoid the "MG shooter tank" that before can shoot in every position.

The point is  that the heavier a wepon is the less "sway" it has in the real world due to its own inertia. A medium MG is rock solid in the act of firing on its own due to its own weight. Biathletic .22 rifles are "unecessarily" heavy for the same reason....btw Biathlon would be impossible to simulate with this 1.54 version. Im not writing from the view of a videogamer im writing only from the view of a active shooter. And beeing able to jog from Kavala to Molos also makes no sense for me. Not even the best trained soldier (and in fact onyl 5% of an armies soldier are really well trained, the majority is average at best) could do that in full gear and weapons.

[silentghoust 132]

I agree that the old system was better. I'm actually wondering why BI felt this needed changed. If they felt that players still didn't pay attention to their load out weights, they could of easily just made a steeper curve for people wanting to pack a ton of gear. I felt the stamina curve from the old server gave a good feel of "pushing" your soldier in emergency situations.All well, guess we shall sail the rant/complain storm that is beginning and see what BI does.

[pd3 25]

The point is  that the heavier a wepon is the less "sway" it has in the real world due to its own inertia. A medium MG is rock solid in the act of firing on its own due to its own weight. Biathletic .22 rifles are "unecessarily" heavy for the same reason....btw Biathlon would be impossible to simulate with this 1.54 version. Im not writing from the view of a videogamer im writing only from the view of a active shooter. And beeing able to jog from Kavala to Molos also makes no sense for me. Not even the best trained soldier (and in fact onyl 5% of an armies soldier are really well trained, the majority is average at best) could do that in full gear and weapons.

Minor nitpick, but heavy things and inertia usually result in "more" sway because they're heavier and if exposed to greater centrifugal force (swinging one's perspective), then it's going to move more in that respect.

You have to understand that technically the player can move their perspective with the mouse faster than an actual human can turn, so there does have to be some way of redressing this so that players aren't whipping their perspective around like it's counterstrike.

 

[Mynock 244]

Any soldier worth his weapon can likely jog for quite some distance even when loaded with equipment. Should it be infinite? Probably not, but this is better than the "hobbling" before where you would kind of trot-walk with your weapon up. As for sprinting, pretty sure if you're under fire, no matter how tired you are, your adrenaline is going to give you whatever energy is required to muster some speed to get behind something. Last I checked in a fight or flight situation the average human body doesn't make a mathematical calculation about how tired it is and limit a person. But I'm not a scientist so what do I know.

[danil-ch 165]

New system is so robotic. Those instant switches from sprint to run looks so unnatural. Plus, the new system does not encourage players to rest (there is no logical reason to stop  and catch your breath).

 

Now the sprint is the new run mode and like a human body you can only jog when your stamine is low.

And black is white.

Sprint speed - 18 km/h

Run speed - 14,5 km/h

And some people think it's slow. 

[roberthammer 582]

BF/COD style stamina - how nice ...

btw We been complaining about this in the Dev version , being too simple , unrealistic and Devs ignored it

just great  :rolleyes:

[Shaundi. 2]

The Fact that you can constantly sprint but then at the very end to go a fast walk I think is a step back. The setup before where your speed for running would slowly go down until you recoup your stamina i think is a way better setup. It is more realistic at least in my opinion. If you have the same opinion or different post it here i would like to see what others have to say. 

 

I agree. 

[djotacon 190]

The point is  that the heavier a wepon is the less "sway" it has in the real world due to its own inertia. A medium MG is rock solid in the act of firing on its own due to its own weight. Biathletic .22 rifles are "unecessarily" heavy for the same reason....btw Biathlon would be impossible to simulate with this 1.54 version. Im not writing from the view of a videogamer im writing only from the view of a active shooter. And beeing able to jog from Kavala to Molos also makes no sense for me. Not even the best trained soldier (and in fact onyl 5% of an armies soldier are really well trained, the majority is average at best) could do that in full gear and weapons.

 

The point is you cant barely shoot properly shoot a LMG in standing position. In the real world only very strong soldiers can manage the weight of this kind of weapon ( shooting an anti-material rifle in standing position is a arcade dream also).

 

Rigth now the LMG "people" are ranting cause the they can't run and shoot. Welcome to the world of the common sense.

[Beagle 684]

The point is you cant barely shoot properly shoot a LMG in standing position. In the real world only very strong soldiers can manage the weight of this kind of weapon ( shooting an anti-material rifle in standing position is a arcade dream also).

 

Rigth now the LMG "people" are ranting cause the they can't run and shoot. Welcome to the world of the common sense.

youre not supposed to fire a MG or even LMG unsupported. Any unsupported firing is just to scare away an opponent in a retreat. My concern, again, wth bhis is that there is sway and muzzle clim stil with Rested Machibneguns which is absent in the real life to my experience. This is what makes MGs so dangerous at long distances and a formidable anti sniper tool RL but not in ArmA III.

[jone_kone 158]

Not sure whether I like it or not yet.

 

Only tested it for one evening now. However first impressions are that it´s more realistic and now the gear that you carry really matters.

 

I consider myself a moderately strong guy. What I remember from my army days are:

 

- With a 20 kg+3 kg weapon LBV you could do a 5 km jog but sprinting and fighting is cumbersome. Sprinting speed and distance is reduced considerably.

 

- Carrying an additional 20 kg back pack with the LBV it was still possible to jog or quick march 5 km. But it´s a real pain.

 

- Adding a 12 kg AT weapon to the above will pretty much reduce speed to only walking.

 

 

However this is a game and it should be fun to play and waiting for a stamina bar usually isnt. It´s hard to say if the old system was better or not at this point. I my opinion the game have more pressing issues that should have been fixed before the stamina system. But that´s just me... :)

[rob1 4]

I've only briefly tried the new system out so can't give a full take on it but I don't like what I have seen it at all.  I love BI for the scope of the game & for working on updates, allowing such modding freedom but I feel they dropped the ball on this one.  Being loaded up with gear should have some consequences sure but the game just doesn't feel fun for me anymore, mods & server owners will no doubt fix some of this.  I just can't see what was wrong with how it was?!  Great game but this is a real fly in the ointment :(

[READTHESCROLL 3]

never have I seen such an aimign behavior exept for 6 years olds trying to aim granddads Carbine. Even my Girlfriend that has no experience in shooting does not aim that shaky way.

 

QFT. Spot on. 

 

Of all the things they could try and make better they chose to mess with this lol. I dont mind some of the fatigue stuff but the over exaggerated weapon sway is just stupid. It was bad enough where it was before. I feel like an old grandma that can barely hold the weapon up now.

[jakeplissken 81]

The stamina is unrealistic sure, even a load of 12.7mm magazines can slow you down too much. This will stop players on public servers running around with 4 AT missiles, Mini-Spike and a .338 LMG with ammo boxes. You need to pare it down a bit.

 

This video shows a more realistic loadout,

 

 

the standard Arma player always wants to carry unrealistic amounts of gear. But the weapon sway is unrealistic for sure. A weapon on a bipod should not sway at all and this makes sniping at even 1100 meters annoying. VBS had rock-solid mounted weapons with no sway or recoil when firing. Even with a Browning M2.

 

In this video, the weapon is rock-solid on a bipod whilst firing, and this is a PKM.

 

 

So why does the Navid and the BLUFOR LMG have so much upwards recoil?

[roberthammer 582]

The stamina is unrealistic sure, even a load of 12.7mm magazines can slow you down too much. This will stop players on public servers running around with 4 AT missiles, Mini-Spike and a .338 LMG with ammo boxes. You need to pare it down a bit.

 

So why does the Navid and the BLUFOR LMG have so much upwards recoil?

You have a point that it needs to be punished for unrealistic loadouts and sway while rested should be minimal and on bipod zero sway

 

About that recoil - Navid it's a fictional MG5 variant that uses 9.3×64 mm caliber and LMMG got .338NM , i am sure both kick like a mule

 

normally you wouldn't be able to shoot those things while standing

[Beagle 684]

You have a point that it needs to be punished for unrealistic loadouts and sway while rested should be minimal and on bipod zero sway

 

About that recoil - Navid it's a fictional MG5 variant that uses 9.3×64 mm caliber and LMMG got .338NM , i am sure both kick like a mule

 

normally you wouldn't be able to shoot those things while standing

Yes thats true but both should ne no problem on bypid with your whole eweight against it. The "kick" of a heavy weapon is far less than that of a light one. I with you that it should not be effectively usefull in a stzandign or kneelign position but it should be sniper deadly prone deployed. Still till today the MG is the most fearsome infantry weapon on the battlefield not the single sniper. Regardign loadout...as a MG3 Gunner I never had to carry more then 2 boxes...one at the weapon one in the rucksack. The assistant (2nd) gunner would carry the second replacement barrel and two additonal boxes.