Knives/bayonettes/hand to hand skills!

[GodofGunnies 0]

These three--or two, if you want to be really cheap--topics are must-haves. OFP has all but the knives and bayonettes already coded in. The hand to hand and rifle butting sequences would be nice. While everyone talks about using their "Silenced Gun", instead of a bayonette, or a Ka-Bar or SEAL pup knife, or a MK IV diving knife, or your handy and ever-useful rear stock, I don't think they comprehend. In a "Black Op" mission, I would personally take a knife kill if it was what was necessary. First of all, because silenced "guns" (they should be called pistols, rifles, or weapons. Call a weapon a "Gun" in training, and they'll swab the deck with your cranium. You can meet the sqaud bay floor up close and personal, while you enjoy the thought provoking position of the leaning rest.) don't truly "silence" unless they're uber-high qaulity. If they're that soft and gentle sounding, they probably have jack shit for an effective range, because the round moves so damn slow, and you can only effectively silence or flash suppress, not both. I mean, there are some things that supress both ways, but that's just what they do--suppress. Not truly "silence" or "eliminate." These factors add up to mean that a more effective approach, if you're that damn close, is to conserve ammo, grab 'em by the mouth and nose while controlling their body movement, and give a nice, firm thrust to the kidney, and hold and twist till he convulses, after which time you let him slowly down to the ground and go about your flippin' business.

[GFX707 0]

wow, you're such a big tough man

congratulations

[GodofGunnies 0]

WTF, man? I simply state that I believe knives are more useful, and I state how. It's a commonly used method to list all contengencies that you can manage to think of in your first post, so as to prevent arguments. But then some asshole has to come along, and try and start an argument! Fuck you.

[GodofGunnies 0]

But come on. You've gotta admit that you've always had the urge to make a mission where it's almost like WWI, where you get into some nice close combat, and just bring the butt of your rifle into somebodies face. Man vs. Man. Dukin' it out, the most primitive way around. Trying to conquer eachother with what ammounts at that range to a poorly crafted club. It HAS to appeal to some folks. I know that the desire is great within my own heart. Come, people! Join the revolution!

[Placebo 29]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (GodofGunnies @ Oct. 11 2002,01:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But then some asshole has to come along, and try and start an argument!  Fuck you.<span id='postcolor'>

Comments like that are not tolerated on these forums, any repeat will result in post restrictions.

[Placebo 29]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (GFX707 @ Oct. 11 2002,01:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">wow, you're such a big tough man

congratulations<span id='postcolor'>

And as an experienced forum member you should know better than posting flame bait too.

[GodofGunnies 0]

Sorry for the out-of-line remark. Just got kind of PO'd that my statement was mishandled. If it came across as egotistical, I assure you it wasn't meant that way.

[Ludovico Technique 0]

I think knives would be a good addition, but I think it's a lot of effort to add them when they are, after all, extremely rarely used. Most of what I have read about special forces operations leads me to think that it is the initial surprise and speed of attack that are paramount, not stealth, hence why silenced submachineguns and stun grenades are used.

[160th(SOAR)LoNeWoLF 0]

My problem wit knives is that the dmg system on Res is pretty bad as it is, and knives would make it sooo more complicated. I would much rather put a dose of lead in some1's head than stab em with a stick and walk away just to have them a few seconds later squeeze off 3 rounds and kill me. 'Nuff said.

[Lt_Damage 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (GodofGunnies @ Oct. 11 2002,12:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But come on.  You've gotta admit that you've always had the urge to make a mission where it's almost like WWI, where you get into some nice close combat, and just bring the butt of your rifle into somebodies face.  Man vs. Man.  Dukin' it out, the most primitive way around.  Trying to conquer eachother with what ammounts at that range to a poorly crafted club.  It HAS to appeal to some folks.  I know that the desire is great within my own heart.  Come, people!  Join the revolution!<span id='postcolor'>

Yes I've had urges to make missions, you sound like you just enjoy killing though. If killing was my job I'd quit as soon as I enjoyed it 1/10th as much as u seem to

If I misunderstood and you just REALLY enjoy that sort of stuff within the context of video games, my sincerest apologies.

Knives and stuff would be ok, but I don't think they'd be worth the effort in OFP. First you'd have to eliminate lag completely, and make sure models interact with each other in much better fashion than they currently do.

Regards,

[Kermit 0]

For once I feel that a poll would be appropriate. And I vote no.

[miles teg 1]

5--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Lt_Damage @ Oct. 11 2002,045)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes I've had urges to make missions, you sound like you just enjoy killing though. If killing was my job I'd quit as soon as I enjoyed it 1/10th as much as u seem to

If I misunderstood and you just REALLY enjoy that sort of stuff within the context of video games, my sincerest apologies.

Knives and stuff would be ok, but I don't think they'd be worth the effort in OFP. First you'd have to eliminate lag completely, and make sure models interact with each other in much better fashion than they currently do.

Regards,<span id='postcolor'>

I've studied knife fighting in the past, and I can assure you that this is a legitimate form of combat.  Yes it is a brutal and horrible way of killing someone, but a good soldier should be proficient in knife combat.  There are times in war when assaults can lead to close contact resulting in a life or death struggle for a weapon in which often the guy with the knife (and who knows how to use it) wins.   Also as was mentioned, for silent kills a knife can *sometimes* be a better idea then a silenced pistol which does make a significant sound even if it's a .22 pistol or rifle.    However a kidney stab would not be a good idea as they'd likely still scream like hell.

A quicker, silent kill is usually achieved by a knife thrust up and under the rib cage into the heart with the other hand covering the mouth and violently pulling the head back.

Throat stabs are used other times, but they still gurgle like hell.  Head stabs also sometimes causes vicitims to still scream like crazy if the knife damages a part of the brain that doesn't kill the victim.   Oh...yeah...another oldie, but goodie...the ol' "Saca Tripa" technique otherwise known as disembowling.   Nothing puts an opponent out of action quicker then him seeing his intestines falling out down on his boots.  Death usually follows swiftly as well.  The Gurkha soldiers I hear are fairly good at this.  It simply takes a small slice of the stomache muscles to do it accomplished with a downward stab or a sharp hooked blade.  For inexperienced soldiers, usually something like piano wire is much easier to use and very effective, although other enemy soldiers may hear signs of struggle.   Some hand to hand combat speciaists also recommend simply snapping the neck with a small twist in one direction (to fool the victim into resisting the movement in the wrong direction) followed by a quick violent twist in the other direction until a grinding, crunching sound is felt and the victim goes limp.  However the effectiveness of this technique is depends largely on the strength of the victims neck and the strength of the person doing the neck breaking. At any rate, a silent kill with a knife isn't like in the movies and takes a tremendous amount of training and technique to do it well.

Yes I know all of that sounds horrific and bloody and I certainly would not enjoy doing any of those things to any person or animal, but they are a fact of combat and are methods a good soldier should be well versed in. Equally well a soldier should be trained in how to defend against knife attacks as they may face such attacks in from civilians.

Anyways,  I don't know if the original poster knows this but there is already a animation for doing a rifle-butt attack.  It actually works...but only you don't have a rifle and you use a script that gives you the action command for it.  It appears that BIS never finished making a full version of this hand to hand combat system.  There's also a punch that indeed works, yet so far I haven't seen anyone study how it works to see if it can be used for bayonets and stuff like that as it doesn't require any ammo like the drill addon for example.  

At any rate, I would like to see the option of having a bayonet on a rifle.  At least that wouldnt' take any extra animations (although it would look nice to have a little thrusting animation).  

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[blackdog~ 0]

That is sick, Miles.. Bah...

I do agree on knives though... I used to be able to knife people in Counter-Strike (don't flame me! with ease... it would be a welcome addition to OFP.

You guys really have no reason to disagree, because if you don't want one then don't use it. The person who makes one (if they do make one) will put his hard work into it for the people who do want one...

[Placebo 29]

Posting a pic of someone vomiting is pathetic in the extreme, for the next 24 hours you can sit and think about it.

[IceFire 0]

Jeez, just go to the "new weapon" thread in Offtopic to continue discussing this if you want.

I think we should pool all our opinions on having knives in OPF in one thread.

I am surprised this thread is here. I havn't seen it.

Yes, we want knives in OPF.

[Major Fubar 0]

here

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

This is cool, members doing our job for us

Now don't think you will get the big red buttons though, they are our privilige

Thx for the help though