Greece navigating "uncharted territory"

[vilas 477]

catastroika ?

it is from catastrophy + perestroika ?

[oxmox 73]

catastroika ?

it is from catastrophy + perestroika ?

I guess from catastrophy + troika :D

I didnt watch the movie yet.

[vilas 477]

http://www4.rp.pl/Gospodarka/307139883-Niemcy-probowaly-zabrac-Grekom-aktywa-warte-50-mld-euro.html

"Germany planned to take Greek property" , several EU countries voted against it

anyway what about touristic future in Greece ? cause i planned to see it

[mistyronin 1181]

So who's up for Grexit Crisis Round 2 in 2018? :D

Why on earth Merkel & co. would agree to this is beyond me at this point...

Yeah, I fail to understand this new agreement.

Basically none of the infrastructural problems will be solved (excess of stupid spenditure like military, excess of corruption, etc.).

So yeah. It seems the situation will repeat itself in a few years... With our (EU citizens) money. :(

[oxmox 73]

How Will The Greek Privatization Fund Work? (WSJ)

One of the linchpins of the deal struck Monday morning to prevent Greece’s exit (for now)

from the eurozone is a fund that will manage the sale of the country’s state-owned assets.

The deal requires that the fund at some point generate €50 billion in cash from the asset sales, to be used for various purposes: half for repaying money borrowed from the eurozone to recapitalize Greek banks; a quarter for investments; and a quarter for reducing the government’s debt burden.

One likely source of said assets are the new bank shares that the Greek government will acquire with the money it will borrow from the eurozone’s bailout fund torecapitalize the country’s banks. French President Francois Hollande said as much during his post-summit press conference, arguing this would allow Greece to seed the fund with money it will borrow anyway to recapitalize its banks.

http://blogs.wsj.com/briefly/2015/07/13/how-will-the-greek-privatization-work-the-short-answer/

[mistyronin 1181]

(Ekathimerini.com) SYRIZA minister says bailout means Greek election in 2015

Greece's labor minister says the country is likely to see another general election this year.

Panos Skourletis, a former spokesman for the ruling SYRIZA party, told state television the government will need "borrowed votes from the opposition" to pass the new austerity measures demanded by creditors.

He says "I cannot see how we can avoid elections in 2015 ... It's unnatural: We believe in something different than what we've been forced to sign with a gun pointed to our head."

Pro-European Greek opposition parties have promised to back the bailout deal negotiated by Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras as the only alternative to being expelled from the shared euro currency.

Skourletis said, however, that a quick election could not be held because of the state of Greece's economy, with its banks still closed.

(Reuters) Greek PM Tspiras faces party revolt over bailout deal

Greece's leftwing Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras faces a showdown with rebels in his own party on Tuesday furious at his capitulation to German demands for one of the most sweeping austerity packages ever demanded of a euro zone government.

Just hours after a deal that saw Greece surrender much of its sovereignty to outside supervision in return for agreeing to talks on an 86 billion euro ($95 billion) bailout, doubts were already emerging about whether Tsipras would be able to hold his government together.

"We cannot agree to that," Independent Greeks leader Panos Kammenos told reporters after meeting Tsipras. "In a parliamentary democracy, there are rules and we uphold them."

[oxmox 73]

Exclusive: Secret IMF report

Greece needs debt relief far beyond EU plans

Greece will need far bigger debt relief than euro zone partners have been prepared to envisage so far due to the devastation of its economy and banks in the last two weeks, a confidential study by the International Monetary Fund seen by Reuters shows.

The updated debt sustainability analysis (DSA) was sent to euro zone governments late on Monday, hours after Athens and its 18 partners agreed in principle to open negotiations on a third bailout program of up to 86 billion euros in return for tougher austerity measures and structural reforms.

"The dramatic deterioration in debt sustainability points to the need for debt relief on a scale that would need to go well beyond what has been under consideration to date - and what has been proposed by the ESM," the IMF said, referring to the European Stability Mechanism bailout fund.

European countries would have to give Greece a 30-year grace period on servicing all its European debt, including new loans, and a very dramatic maturity extension, or else make explicit annual fiscal transfers to the Greek budget or accept "deep upfront haircuts" on their loans to Athens, the report said.

--> It was leaked as German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble disclosed that some members of the Berlin government thought Greece would have been better off taking "time-out" from the euro zone rather than receiving another giant bailout.

The IMF study said the closure of Greek banks and imposition of capital controls on June 29 was "extracting a heavy toll on the banking system and the economy, leading to a further significant deterioration in debt sustainability relative to what was projected in our recently published DSA".

European members of the IMF's executive board tried in vain to stop the publication of that earlier study on July 2 just three days before a Greek referendum that rejected earlier bailout terms, sources familiar with the discussions told Reuters.

Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras and his former finance minister, Yanis Varoufakis, seized on the IMF study as vindicating their argument that the proposed bailout was unsustainable and that Greece was right to demand debt relief.

--> The latest IMF study said Greek debt would now peak at close to 200 percent of economic output in the next two years, compared to a previously forecast high of 177 percent. Even by 2022, the debt would stand at 170 percent of gross domestic product, compared to an estimate of 142 percent issued just two weeks ago.

The IMF study also appeared to challenge the assumption by some European officials that Greece will be able to meet some of its financing needs from the markets in 2018.

"Borrowing at anything but AAA rates in the near term will bring about an unsustainable debt dynamic for the next several decades," it said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/14/us-eurozone-greece-imf-report-idUSKCN0PO1CB20150714?utm_source=twitter

The IMF knew that they will never have the chance to repay........and most of the bailout goes into the hands of banks even with the new planned privatization fond, great

Does the relief of debts also counts for the IMF loans ? :D

This whole Greece Story reminds on "delayed filing of insolvency" ..................go ahead and pump more money in a money sink.

And its the question if it is all about the Greece debts and not just a fight for the Euro itself, but they did reach a certain point that already the Finance Minister of Germany did suggest the "Grexit", Greece leaving the Euro Currency, for a certain time.

Btw, Greece has a timeframe of 32 years to pay back the debts to European Countries, the bail-out fund. Its the biggest part of the debts, altogether 320€ billions, with almost 200€ billions.

http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/griechenland-schulden-101.html

The European tax payers will do it since its the question if they ever will repay it anyway.....

Edited July 14, 2015 by oxmox

[vilas 477]

becuase they want to create Fourth Reich (of corporations, banks)

http://niezalezna.pl/68957-zbliza-sie-iv-rzesza-martin-schulz-tylko-rzad-europejski-rozwiaze-problemy-panstw-unii

Martin Shultz said that "no longer problems can be solved by national soveirgn governments" (because only soveirgn government would care about local population, not making one nation as cheap labor for other nation prosperity, like now we have in EU when one nation works for 400 Euro as cheap labor in companies which belong to nation in which people earn 2000 Euro and only credit is in their bank)

if they gonna create USofE, than i wonder how many people gonna follow those people from Eastern Ukraine, when i hear about "overnational government" i am starting to feel sick and understand Novorosya ,

Greece may be first serious battle of NWO to create global government which we will not vote,

i do not believe in "naivety" of those who borrowed Greece money, they did it with intent knowing consequences ,

Edited July 14, 2015 by vilas

[vilas 477]

http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/grecja-starcia-przeciwnikow-reform-z-policja-w-atenach/s9msw5

riots in Greece started - this is indeed pathetic , people voted for something, majority won, politicians promissed somethning so they were voted, now those politicians do other and send police against people

politicians who before elections say A, are voted for A, they do referendum, people vote A, than politicians do B and beat people demanding A - democracy ?

this is what is worth democracy nowadays, politicians promise anything before elections, once they are voted, they do opposite and they sending riot police againt people who voted for something and majority won, when it doesn't matter what majority wants than it is no longer democracy, and it is done by politicians who won elections promissing those things , not by other politicians, but those who promissed exactly the same what people now demand ,

reminds Polish politicians "we go to EU parliament to get more funds for Poland and to fight for more soveirgnity and to more sustaing traditions of each nation" than they are back with "we must pay for refugees from Africa, we must change our traditions cause it is outdated, soveirgnity is outdated too and anyone who says opposite is racist" but day before elections they were saying opposite things,

the same now happens in Greece

it is not matter if people vote for A or B or C ideas , politicians are implementing D

Edited July 15, 2015 by vilas

[mistyronin 1181]

http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/swiat/grecja-starcia-przeciwnikow-reform-z-policja-w-atenach/s9msw5

riots in Greece started - this is indeed pathetic , people voted for something, majority won, politicians promissed somethning so they were voted, now those politicians do other and send police against people

politicians who before elections say A, are voted for A, they do referendum, people vote A, than politicians do B and beat people demanding A - democracy ?

The problem in Greece is that the politicians promised something they could not achieve / didn't depend on them, the same happened with the referendum. It's called populism.

Imagine if I run for the Polish Presidential elections and promise that I'll achieve that all Poles receive 10 million euros. And later I do a referendum on that. Of course that people wants it. But is it realistic?

Populism according to Wikipedia:

Populism is a political doctrine that appeals to the interests and conceptions (such as hopes and fears) of the general population, especially when contrasting any new collective consciousness push against the prevailing status quo interests of any predominant political sector. Populism is commonly defined as: "the political doctrine that supports the rights and powers of the common people in their struggle with the privileged elite." [1] Since the 1980s, populist movements and parties have enjoyed degrees of success in First World democracies such as Canada, Italy, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, and the Nordic countries.

[vilas 477]

politicians must keep promises, and nation has full right to demand it and force it and sentence politicians for it, no less, no more,

politician is like worker on contract of taxpayer, politician is employee of taxpayer , taxpayer is employer and boss and can demand from politicians to follow pre-voted promisses and cannot send police against people who simply want fulfilment of promisses , otherwise we cannot call our countries DEMOCRATIC

and it is not populism, Greeks could vote for not paying and than be throw away from Euro or EU , they COULD,

they would face consequencens but they voted it and it should be fulfiled, Greeks should stop reforms, EU should do Grexit, and end cooperation with Greece , simple , like we fire man who doesn't work from company , he has right to not work, he is not in slave camp, simply we fire such employee and such employee has full right to stop working

for me Greece is no longer democracy,

when people voted for politician promissing A, politician done refferendum in which majority voted A, now politicians do B and send police against people who want A,

what if people in country X would vote to go away from EU ? than what ? maybe sending foreign police to baton them cause noone should leave ?

voting is saint in democracy, majority will is saint in democracy, but what people vote has consequences, but democracy is for adults not for kids, if adult decide to jump from skyscraper it is his right and will and noone should stop him cause it is his life, this is idea of democracy for which people fought in wars, revolutions

if policians promise lies, let then people set justice to such politician with their hands ,

politicians must keep promisses, his salary is from taxes , he is on contract to do his job according to contract (pre voting promisses)

Edited July 15, 2015 by vilas

[oxmox 73]

In general, when it comes to "promises" and politicians:

Ask yourself if your own politicians keep "promises" after their elections - quiete often its not the case that they follow their election manifesto like they did propagate in the campaign.

About Greece, first I had similar thoughts in this case and there is of course scepticism about the current government

So what happened: They did do a referendum and after it the Government did actually provide a similar austerity programm.

After reading this article, it was more clear what did really happen (its just about the austerity programm after the referendum):

Tsipras did not lie to Greeks (Die Zeit, July 10th - google transl.)

Why has the Prime Minister rejected the EU's austerity program in a referendum if

he now wants to implement almost the same ? The fact that there is a difference.

The next day you get the feeling that the excitement is again greater in Germany than in Greece. How Alexis Tsipras only lie to his people so? In a referendum last Sunday, the Greeks voted yet overwhelmingly against the austerity proposals of the EU. And now - this is forgotten everything?

The newspaper Kathimerini that counts no way for loyal following of Tsipras, is getting to the point: "The Prime Minister seems to be the right decision between his party and the interests of Greece to have met." The time now is not the time to be offended.

In this referendum, it was officially about the savings proposed by the EU. And not, about exit from the euro zone. Tsipras did recommand a No as an important point was missing in this proposal: A firm commitment by the EU to reduce Greece's debt burden - either by a classic haircut or even by reducing interest rates and extension of loan maturities. Tsipras has always said that he would only agree if there is such a "viable solution for the future" give with creditors.

The Greek Prime Minister had before the referendum also acknowledged openly that a No would only help to achieve better conditions in the negotiations. And after that it now looks actually.

Creditors and even Germany are apparently prepared to grant the Greeks a relief in debt service. Before the referendum, they had refused to do so or would have been more than willing to include this in the agreement with a soft formulation. In this respect, Tsipras had achieved his goal and get better conditions. The man and his party, he could sell as the "honorable compromise" which he has always aspired so now.

Was it worth it?

Nevertheless, many ask in Greece: Was it worth it? While the country remains in the euro, but there are again tough conditions, which will expirience the public very soon and feel very directly. A great economic damage was also done in the months of negotiations, and especially after the banks were closed in the past two weeks, a catch up will be very troublsesome again.

The only certainty is that after five years of crisis in Greece has formed a solid majority for this Government under Alexis Tsipras, and that the population has confirmed its confidence in the Prime Minister by the referendum again. The people know: they can not keep the euro for free.

Die Zeit - google transl.

Edited July 16, 2015 by oxmox

[krycek 349]

Tsipras was with his back to the wall,it wasn't his fault.Due to past policies and corruption in local government together with brutal austerity measures imposed by Germany made Greece to be cornered.They'll never be able to repay the debt,the only way out is to erase some of that huge debt.

Anyway this shows that for quite a number of years there has been two EUs.The smaller countries EU and the big boys EU with France,Spain and Germany(actually mostly Germany since France just likes to tag along).On paper everyone has a say,in practice when Merkel smacks her fist everyone listens.

Unless smaller countries like Greece,Poland,Hungary,Romania,Slovakia,Finland,Bulgaria,Croatia and a few others will have a common voice this will never be EU,just Merkel Union that decides for everyone.

[oxmox 73]

T.On paper everyone has a say,in practice when Merkel smacks her fist everyone listens.

Unless smaller countries like Greece,Poland,Hungary,Romania,Slovakia,Finland,Bulgaria,Croatia and a few others will have a common voice this will never be EU,just Merkel Union that decides for everyone.

Well,what are the opinions of these countries and suggestions in the case of Greece ?

[krycek 349]

Some don't say anything afraid of economical repercussions,others are split between "it's Greece fault" and "Germany punishes them for rising up against them".That's why I was stating that without a common voice the strong will always prey on the weak,these days meaning cheap labor and getting the resources they need with the help of corrupted members from those countries governments or by coercion.Afterall these days you don't need powerful armies when you can make a country starve to death.

Regarding suggestions,even IMF suggests that Greece needs debt relief,guess who's oppposing?

[oxmox 73]

Some don't say anything afraid of economical repercussions,others are split between "it's Greece fault" and "Germany punishes them for rising up against them".That's why I was stating that without a common voice the strong will always prey on the weak,these days meaning cheap labor and getting the resources they need with the help of corrupted members from those countries governments or by coercion.Afterall these days you don't need powerful armies when you can make a country starve to death.

Regarding suggestions,even IMF suggests that Greece needs debt relief,guess who's oppposing?

Greece had already several times a debt relief over the years. Actually after years of pumping money into the country the suggestion from the german Finance Minister to exit the Euro over time sounds not bad. They slowly loose the battle for the Euro in Greece, because over the years any exit from the Euro was rather avoided by politicians.

Any links or summary about critics on the german initiative about Greece from these mentioned countries and their own suggestions as alternative ? And which countries in the EU carry the major part and risks of the financial contributions ?

I dont have the overview about critics and suggestions by other smaller EU countries about financial Crisis in Greece.......

Edited July 16, 2015 by oxmox

[vilas 477]

Any links or summary about harsh critics on the german initiative about Greece from these mentioned countries ? And which countries in the EU carry the major part and risks of the financial contributions ?

divide 2 things in case of Poland than voices are divided, first of all we believe that debts have to be paind, second of all we hate banksters and corporations, third , Greeks live much better than us, have 3 times bigger salary and we see them as lazy who demand more and more for doing nothing while we have much worse,

so from one hand we hate banks and corruption, from other hands we believe that for doing nothing there should be no money,

things like paying people benefits for doing nothing are unacceptable, so when Greek says he is poor and he had 120 Euro benefit for eating free of charge dinner in company restaurant for us sounds such weird as some Japanese TV shows,

Greeks had benefits for not being late in job, 400 Euro ?

for us , who earn 400 Euro total it is mad, because if we are late in job, we are being fired,

Greeks had more benefits, bonuses , than we have salary,

we seen Greeks half as victims of evil banks from Germany, as second as lazy demanding southerners who do nothing except demanding , because many tourists were prescribing southern people as "lazy cheaters" (cause Greece cheated international stats, EU commision and etc) - especially by older generation who served in conscript army and they used to " hurry f* up" in army than "piano piano", (because on the south there is very hot and it is understandable that in hot weather you do not move, like us, when it is +30 we curse such weather cause every move can cause stroke)

southern culture is close to "piano, piano" "maniana" , we have working condition that on west can be called "mobbing, terror" ,

so for us guys who had such bonuses were lazy, but from other hand we know what foreign banks and corporations did to our country during privatization process in early 90s,

so we have rather mixed confused feelings, because we feel sympathy to victims of banks and privatization, but from other hand when we hear that someone has 400 Euro bonus for not being late we are pissed off, especially people who work for less than 400 Euro per month, people who do not have free of charge lunch in jobs, so it comes from jealousy of poverty (at some level of poverty people are becoming jealous for those who have smaller poverty, i do not know how it is called in psychology, when you were beaten 1000 times, you start to be angry not for one who beats, but for one who was beaten "only" 900 times - such syndrome is already most common in Poland in case of labor causing that junk-jobs people are not unifying against corporations from abroad, it is especially problem for labor unions , trade unions, cause people instead of being united, argue with each other "who has worse")

plus we do not want to pay for Greek debt as EU citizen,

because person who earns 400 Euro is not "happy" to pay for person who has 1000 Euro + 120 bonus for eating free lunch + 400 euro bonus for not being late + 200 euro another bonus for another things which in our country is must in job,

me personaly - i hate to pay for people who have more money than me , because i believe (it comes from Catholic culture) that "the richer, the more he should pay, rich has more duties than poor", but also i believe that debts must be paid, and noone should cheat stats,

for sure "more poor paying for more rich" is unacceptable here, that's why maybe we not criticized Germany in case of Greece,

simply we live in bigger poverty and our total debt is bigger than Greek one (yes, Poland has more debts than Greece after reign of those corrupted politicians which soon gona loose elections)

another reason is that our current ruling party politicians and Tusk himself, were paid in early 90s from German CSU party as several ex-party politicians said

i believe that it causes such countries to restrain from any voice, cause for us Greece cheated too much and for many people in those smaller EU countries, Greek salary/bonuses is something they dream about,

it is hard to help someone, whom you know he is more rich , more powerful than you , natural will of help comes to weaker ones, not to stronger ones or less working ones,

Greeks moaning on videos and crying "how can i live for 1000 Euro" for us only cause anger, cause we live for 300 Euro ,

if i had one job (i work in 2 jobs, i work 6 days a week , 12 hours daily + half day in Sunday) and earning 500-600 Euro, than after paying rent for hire small one-room flat + electricity + water + heating (24 sq. meters) i would have only 250-350 Euro left for rest of month (cost of rent for hire is ca 250 EUro, so when living with woman it is divided by two, rent for owned flat is half of it, electricity is ca 50 EU for 2 months period)

so living in 24 sq. meters flat , hired, i do not look good at people who do not pay debt, work for 3-4 times more indeed,

but from other side... banks , evil banks, EUropean Comission etc.

many people i know who work in shops earn 350 EUro after taxation, they are mad hearing "help to Greece" but after it they say "good they have balls and said no to EU and financial elites"

it is confusing because none side of this coin is good, rather unsolvable issue, cause we found that both sides have arguments that we can agree,

Edited July 16, 2015 by vilas

[krycek 349]

Greece had already several times a debt relief over the years. Actually after years of pumping money into the country the suggestion from the german Finance Minister to exit the Euro over time sounds not bad. They slowly loose the battle for the Euro in Greece, because over the years any exit from the Euro was rather avoided by politicians.

Any links or summary about critics on the german initiative about Greece from these mentioned countries and their own suggestions as alternative ? And which countries in the EU carry the major part and risks of the financial contributions ?

I dont have the overview about critics and suggestions by other smaller EU countries about financial Crisis in Greece.......

Can't provide a link for the specific smaller countries because it's not an unanimous voice and there's quite a difference of opinions regarding Greece debt problem.That's why I assume they don't want to anger the wolf by adopting a more united voice.

It's the same in my country by watching,reading some of the media.There are two sides,one blaming Greece and another that believes Germany went out of it's way to punish Greece.

Like I said (and also agree with vilas on this point) greeks aren't without fault either in this but it's also obvious that Germany wanted to punish them with this latest deal.If you read the current deal terms there is no way that there is a light at the end of the tunnel for Greece with those measures.This is a behaviour typical of a loanshark.

A few links worth reading:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11738297/Mark-Carney-Greece-needs-debt-relief-to-survive.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-33531845

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/16/merkel-gambling-away-germanys-reputation-over-greece-says-habermas

[vilas 477]

google translate on your own language:

http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,141202,title,Rafal-Wos-No-i-zrobili-z-nas-eurosceptykow,wid,17712921,wiadomosc.html

i do not know how this jorunalist get informations, but he claims how negotiations looked like (maybe via internet TV from parliament ? cause maybe EU parliament has transmission like Polish parliament which has also "parliament TV" in the internet for citizens?)

anyway

journalist claim that German minister wanted to talk about Greece without new government of Greece, saying that "previous government before election" made deals and than Greek prime minister answered if Germany accept democratic elections in countries with debts,

also journalist say that EU now turned from "equality, unity" to "will of Germany"

[mistyronin 1181]

(The Independent) Greece debt crisis: Economist Paul Krugman admits he 'overestimated the competence of the Greek government'

In an interview with CNN, Krugman said that it didn’t even occur to him that Greece would make a stand against its European lenders without having made a plan for an exit from the euro if things went wrong.

"Amazingly, they thought they could simply demand better terms without having any backup plan. So certainly this is a shock," Krugman told Fareed Zakaria on his CNN show, Fareed Zakaria GPS.

"I mean, the new terms are even worse, but the terms they were being offered before were still not going to work. So I, you know, I may have overestimated the competence of the Greek government," Krugman said.

Tho it's good to have in mind:

(Spectator) Niall Ferguson: Why Paul Krugman should never be taken seriously again

(The Guardian) Paul Krugman has got it wrong on austerity

Edited July 20, 2015 by MistyRonin

[oxmox 73]

About other mentioned countries: we should not forget that not every country which is in the EU is also involved with the Euro yet...

Poland will not pay a penny for Greece

Poland will not spend a penny from its own budget to help Greece,

Prime Minister Ewa Kopacz told a press conference in Warsaw after a cabinet meeting on Tuesday.

On Monday Greece received an approximately EUR 7 billion bridging loan to repay its debts to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and its current installment to the European Central Bank (ECB). The new aid programme for Greece is in the region of EUR 82-86 billion.

“If it turns out that Greece is insolvent and will have to be given this loan, then the European Union countries inside the eurozone will pay back our EUR 200 million contribution. This means we won’t spend a penny,†Kopacz continued.

Poland is one of the nine countries in the 28-member EU that is still outside the eurozone.

http://thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/214547,Kopacz-Poland-will-not-pay-a-penny-for-Greece

Edited July 22, 2015 by oxmox

[vilas 477]

http://www.money.pl/gospodarka/unia-europejska/wiadomosci/artykul/kryzys-w-grecji-bruksela-stawia-angele,47,0,1863983.html

"EU tries to force on Merkel to loose debts of Greece"

and article says that EU commisar Pierre Moscovici said that EU allowed Greece to loose their debts ?

economists from Bloomberg say they foresee another such crisis on 2016, another Grexit try,

what rather hits me in this message is that this EU commisar is ... from Trockists Communist party ,

he was regular commie

and such guy is ECONOMICAL commisar for EU ?

i thought that communism and nazism are both treated as criminal ideologies,

he is EU commisar for economy , wtf ?

communist as EU economist ? no wonder all those insane economically ideas and problems, if communists seat in ruling places of EU telling to not pay debts or telling that natives must resign from wealth and sponsor whole Africa and Middle East

[krycek 349]

Vilas,if you're worried about commies in EU you can add to that list the ex president of European Commission Jose Barosso which was in Portuguese Workers Communist Party and let's not forget even Merkel is suspected that she had ties with SED.The wolf changes his hair,not his habits.

[vilas 477]

return to Greece topic - Greece get /will get soon ? 26 bilion € (?), they privatised 14 airports, it is told that those airports were bought by ... friend of Merkel 

[Tonci87 163]

return to Greece topic - Greece get /will get soon ? 26 bilion € (?), they privatised 14 airports, it is told that those airports were bought by ... friend of Merkel 

Source?