World Politics General

[oxmox 73]

This thread is about politics & events in all kind of countries around the world. In the case of major events your are of course free to open an individual toppic about it.

Democracy on the Retreat in Over 96 of the 193 U.N. Member States, Says New Study (IPS - Inter Press Service)

The two regions of “highest concern†for defenders of civic space are Sub-Saharan Africa and the Middle East and North Africa, which between them account for over half of the countries counted.

“The link between unethical business practices and closing civic space is becoming clearer as global inequality and capture of power and resources by a handful of political and economic elite rises. “

Advocacy for equitable sharing of natural resources and workers’ rights is becoming increasingly fraught with danger, says the report.

• The examples cited range from the killings of environmental activists in Brazil to the intimidation of organisations challenging the economic discourse in India, to arbitrary detention of activists opposing oil exploration in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC).
  

• He said “closed countries†are where virtually no civic activity can take place due to an extremely repressive environment. These include Eritrea, North Korea, Syria, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan.
  

There is a second list of countries that are active violators of civil society rights – meaning they imprison, intimidate and attack civil society members and put in place all kinds of regulations to limit the activities of civil society organisations (CSOs), particularly those working to uncover corruption and human rights violations, Tiwana said.

• These include Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Belarus, China, Cuba, Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Vietnam.
  

• A number of democracies are also engaging in illicit surveillance of civil society activists, further weakening respect for human rights.
  

Stigmatisation and demonisation of civil society activists by powerful political figures and right-wing elements remains an area of concern.

“When citizens’ most basic democratic rights are being violated in more than half the world’s countries, alarm bells must start ringing for the international community and leaders everywhere,†said Sriskandarajah.

The report also points out some of the tactics deployed to close civic space include passing restrictive laws and targeting individual civil society organisations (CSOs) by raiding their offices, freezing their bank accounts or deregistering them.

• Tiwana told IPS governments in Bahrain, Egypt, Jordan, Oman, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates have stepped up their efforts to prevent public demonstrations and the activities of human rights groups.
  
• 
  

• “There appears to be no let-up in official censorship and repression of active citizens in authoritarian states like China, Cuba, Iran, North Korea, and Vietnam.â€
  

• In sub-Saharan Africa, he said, the repression of civic freedoms appears to have intensified in countries such as Angola, Burundi, Ethiopia, Gambia, Rwanda, Sudan, Swaziland and Zimbabwe.
  

• And activists and civil society groups in many countries in Central Asia and Eastern Europe — where democracy remains fragile or non-existent such as Azerbaijan, Belarus, Hungary, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Turkey, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan — are also feeling the heat following governments’ reactions to scuttle demands for political reform.
  

In South-East Asia, Tiwana pointed out, countries such as Cambodia and Malaysia have a history of repressive governance and in Thailand, where the military seized power through a recent coup, new ‘security’ measures continue to be implemented to restrict civic freedoms.

http://www.ipsnews.net/2015/06/democracy-on-the-retreat-in-over-96-of-the-193-u-n-member-states-says-new-study/

Edited June 27, 2015 by oxmox

[mistyronin 1181]

An interesting data to study democracy in the World are the Democracy Index, with they maps they let you appreciate better how is the World feeling. We can see that in Asia and Africa the Democracy suffers a lot, remarkably in the big countries there like China, Russia and to a lesser degree India. South America tho is evolving to a more democratic society still has work to do.

The Democracy Index done by the Economist Intelligence Unit:

Also the Democracy Index by The Democracy Ranking Association:

Edited June 27, 2015 by MistyRonin

[ProfTournesol 956]

France a flawed democracy ? Oh wait, this is done by the Economist :rolleyes:

[vilas 477]

and when in country right wing wins in voting or when people like Victor Orban force international corporations and banks to pay taxes it is also non democratic ?

while they call democracy some of Scandinavian countries in which politicall correctness doesn't allow to speak abour crimes commited by non-natives ?

Russia as regime ? people voted Putin, he has huge support,

in one links there are factors which they take - influcence of foreign power - in this meaning all "neo-colonies" in which foreign corporations rule should be at bottom of scale even below Russia ,

thos different stats show many mistakes and one sided view,

left wing wins election = democracy ?

people voted for right wing = lack of democracy ?

country in which there is sharia are not democratic at all , they should have level on minus

such reports are as weird as reports made by pro-life fundation which show abortion-leagl countries as anti-human

and they prepared map of "good and bad places to live in the globe" and according to them some fanatic religious countries are better than majority of civilised world,

so ... such stats do not show too much

they have their factors, they are part of some propaganda machine

no matter what we tell about Putin and how he harm us or tries to harm us (non-Russians) but he was voted and has huge support so it is not regime ,

regime is when king rules, king who was not voted but he has government due to inheritance

because king is person who was not voted and if he has anything to decide (law) than such country is less democratic for me (unless king is more than just representative traditional symbol)

what is democracy ? that people vote for THEIR future and THEIR laws and their representative without problems and majority decides how it should look like,

noone votes king opposite to mr. Putin and to mr Orban (who cares about THEIR taxes THEIR budget making anger of many people from Bilderberg Group)

such maps should be revised and changed, maybe not too much, but in some countries they should

Edited June 27, 2015 by vilas

[mistyronin 1181]

while they call democracy some of Scandinavian countries in which politicall correctness doesn't allow to speak abour crimes commited by non-natives ?

Wrong. In Scandinavia people and media talk about crimes committed by non-natives. Simply that your origin doesn't matter much, if you are a criminal you are a criminal. In cities like Stockholm more than 25% of the population were born abroad.

You should document yourself better, or even go to live there for a while.

Russia as regime ? people voted Putin, he has huge support

In Russia the freedom of speech is really limited, the Government controls all the mass media. Hence that's why it has a huge support (like in any other dictatorship). Russia also restricts a lot of other democratic rights, like the freedom of sexuality. Political opponents are killed, same with some journalist.

Remember that in a lot of authoritarian countries people still can vote to a certain degree, like in China. BTW Hitler was elected democratically.

left wing wins election = democracy ?

people voted for right wing = lack of democracy ?

Wrong, some of the Nordics have right wing govs and are also on top of democracy, same happens with Germany (the CDU is conservative right wing).

[vilas 477]

http://www.dw.com/image/0,,6391025_4,00.jpg

http://cdn2.famvin.org/pl/files/2009/12/persecutionmap-RPpl413811.jpg

discrimination of Christians

so some east-Asia , oceanian countries are there, but on images you shown they aren't

--

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/World_Map_Index_of_perception_of_corruption.png

corruption, probably in case of eastern Europe it is from official stats, cause we are "too clear" on this map

Edited June 27, 2015 by vilas

[mistyronin 1181]

discrimination of Christians so some east-Asia , oceanian countries are there, but on images you shown they aren't

The maps I posted showed the index of democracy of the countries, not if there are Islamic guerrillas anti-gov that prosecute Christians.

[vilas 477]

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/51adfd6deab8ea7c4b00001b-1280-561/sharia.png

sharia law

[sudayev 27]

Ah...General general thread, good for dumping anything related with politics no matter of the region ;)

[vilas 477]

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2012/12/atheism-mapkey2.jpg&w=1484

lets compare it with green color on previously mentioned map where France is flawed now

--

edit:

http://wp-images.worthynews.com/blasphemy-apostasy_blasphemy640px.png

tadaaam

even my country here due to law that allows to sue person if his religious feelings are hurt

-------

edit 2

you said Merkel is right wing conservative ? lol , please do not joke, she is more left than our left

really make me laugh :D CDU has only name conservative and Christian , they are normal left wing (lifestyle) with a medium social program (economy)

label doesn't make someone right or left, label is just name, program and action tells if someone is this or that wing

probably word "right wing" and "left wing" is differently used in different countries, cause CDU politics reminds me our left wing or medium parties,

things you would call far -right for us can be moderate-right etc. maybe this is the difference

Edited June 27, 2015 by vilas

[mistyronin 1181]

http://wp-images.worthynews.com/blasphemy-apostasy_blasphemy640px.png

tadaaam

even my country here due to law that allows to sue person if his religious feelings are hurt

Not really. In a democracy religion is considered something private, hence blasphemy its allowed. As you can see that map puts Poland Blasphemy laws at the level of the Islamic extremism in Afghanistan, Indonesia, Iran, Somalia, etc.

you said Merkel is right wing conservative ? lol , please do not joke, she is more left than our left

really make me laugh :D CDU has only name conservative and Christian , they are normal left wing (lifestyle) with a medium social program (economy)

That only means that Poland is really in the far right compared to most of the European countries, if as you say the Polish left is at the right of the German right-wing.

[Tonci87 163]

The CDU is absolutelly right wing, very conservative, extremely big business friendly.

[oxmox 73]

An interesting data to study democracy in the World are the Democracy Index

This is for sure interesting in general and gives an overview, but if you go into details it has flaws...

Examples:

IRAN

IRAN and Saudi Arabia have the same index color

Facts:

• Iran has a lot more freedom than Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia is the most intolerant arab country
  

• Iran is the only country in the "arab world" with democratic structures, more representative and with flaws but anyway...
  

India

It is said that India is the biggest democratic country.

Yeah, shit !

• The caste system is worse than apartheid in former South Africa
  
• 
  

• India is one of the most brutal countries in the world to live in
  (If you have not been to India yet and want to visit the country, be ready for a real shock)
  
• 
  

• 
  

Talks in western countries about human rights and democracy is often pure hypocrisy....

In many cases you get tired of talks about human rights and democracy, which are only valid if the affected countries fits economical or strategical into the western concept.

Ah...General general thread, good for dumping anything related with politics no matter of the region ;)

exactly, hehe :). Sometimes I was reading an interesting article about country XX, but it didnt fit into any thread and you think twice if you open an extra toppic about it...so, yeah here we go.

The CDU is absolutelly right wing, very conservative, extremely big business friendly.

The CDU is a major party in Germany, it is a liberal-conservative party and is overall middle - right.

The SPD, social democrats, another major party would be middle-left.

At the moment a coalition between both parties, CDU & SPD, represent the government.

Edited June 27, 2015 by oxmox

[mistyronin 1181]

IRAN

IRAN and Saudi Arabia have the same index color

Iran it's not a democracy, lacks freedom of speech, part of the population is clearly discriminated, and of course there's no free vote.

Of course Saudi Arabia is not better than Iran, but neither much worst. In fact Iraq is one of the only few countries in the region with "certain" points of democracy, tho far from being a proper democracy.

(Euronews) Iran’s women discriminated against by law

India is technically a democracy judging its government structures, but obviously there are some important flaws, like the low literacy rates. The caste system is a product of the culture and not supported by the government.

(International Business Times) Is India Really A Democracy?

[oxmox 73]

Iran it's not a democracy, lacks freedom of speech, part of the population is clearly discriminated, and of course there's no free vote.

Of course Saudi Arabia is not better than Iran, but neither much worst. In fact Iraq is one of the only few countries in the region with "certain" points of democracy, tho far from being a proper democracy.

(Euronews) Iran’s women discriminated against by law

India is technically a democracy judging its government structures, but obviously there are some important flaws, like the low literacy rates. The caste system is a product of the culture and not supported by the government.

(International Business Times) Is India Really A Democracy?

Saudi Arabia is a lot worse than Iran, thats a fact.

Some examples: Iran has a christian bishop, religious minorities have quiete their freedom, they are integrated also into the goverment and have seats in the parliament i.e. jews have a political seat. Of course the Ajatollahs at the end have the decree, and you can call their system more like pseudo democratical structures, but it exist. There are political structures and to a certain degree freedom which you wont find in any other countries in this area and especially not in Saudi Arabia. Iraq is a different story, since it changed completely due to the Invasion.

Jews in Theran, Iran - a western Journalist visits them. Vodka as a welcome drink. 25 Synagogues exist alone in Theran.

Here the Archbishop from Iran visits the Pope

You cant compare it with Saudi Arabia where you even cant take a Bible into the country.

The country is not the most intolerant in the Arab World, it has also the most extreme type of Islam: Wahabism or abroad also called Salafism.

Saudi Arabia not much worse than Iran ? Please inform you.

About India. Sure its not a Theocracy.

India has quiete a density of different culture. More than 700 different languages exist and aswell more religions, different kind of people.

India is probably the most diverse country in the world.

But, all this technically blabla doesnt represent the reality how a certain percentage of people live there and how society and everyday life is influenced by the major religion. Not to mention how or if "democracy" and constitutionality even reach them. Its a corrupt state with a major religion which does not fit with democratic and constitutional values.

India is a different planet, unthinkable if you have not been there.

Edited June 28, 2015 by oxmox

[mistyronin 1181]

Saudi Arabia is a lot worse than Iran, thats a fact.

You are missing the point. We are comparing both from the point of view of democracy.

And both are far, far, far away from being a democracy, they are in fact in the opposite extreme, that's why in the map I showed here the Economist Intelligence Unit gave them a score between 0.00-1.99 (the lowest possible).

India is a different planet, unthinkable if you have not been there.

Why would you assume that I haven't been there?

Greece is also a corrupt state and a lot in South America, but have the structure of a democracy and quite work like it.

I wouldn't probably added France as Flawed democracy, but all the other countries colored like it have their own right.

[srbknight 925]

Iran it's not a democracy, lacks freedom of speech, part of the population is clearly discriminated, and of course there's no free vote.

Of course Saudi Arabia is not better than Iran, but neither much worst. In fact Iraq is one of the only few countries in the region with "certain" points of democracy, tho far from being a proper democracy.

(Euronews) Iran’s women discriminated against by law

India is technically a democracy judging its government structures, but obviously there are some important flaws, like the low literacy rates. The caste system is a product of the culture and not supported by the government.

(International Business Times) Is India Really A Democracy?

and totally in mud !!! (IRAQ) (LIBYA) <== Not in middle east but have similar democracy as in iraq after Saddam (SAUDI ARABIA) (KUWAIT) (QATAR) Middle eastern countries that have democracy of respect are (IRAN) (UAE) (OMAN) (ISRAEL)

Edited June 28, 2015 by SRBKnight

[mistyronin 1181]

and totally in mud !!! (IRAQ) (LIBYA) <== Not in middle east but have similar democracy as in iraq after Saddam (SAUDI ARABIA) (KUWAIT) (QATAR) Middle eastern countries that have democracy of respect are (IRAN) (UAE) (OMAN) (ISRAEL)

Iraq is a fairly democratic country, of course not a proper democracy, has a lot of flaws but it could be on its way. Libya is now in the midst of chaos, we'll see what the future departs to it.

Oman, Iran and UAE are by no means democracies (heck Oman is an absolute Monarchy). Are some of the worst authoritarian regimes. A bit better, but still authoritarian regimes are Kuwait and Qatar.

Oman is ruled under the Sharia law.

But yes, Israel is indeed a democracy (tho with a few flaws).

[srbknight 925]

Iraq is a fairly democratic country, of course not a proper democracy, has a lot of flaws but it could be on its way. Libya is now in the midst of chaos, we'll see what the future departs to it.

Oman, Iran and UAE are by no means democracies (heck Oman is an absolute Monarchy). Are some of the worst authoritarian regimes. A bit better, but still authoritarian regimes are Kuwait and Qatar.

Oman is ruled under the Sharia law.

But yes, Israel is indeed a democracy (tho with a few flaws).

well i guess monarchy is better in some cases than democracy which caused too much poor people around the world !

[mistyronin 1181]

well i guess monarchy is better in some cases than democracy which caused too much poor people around the world !

In fact it's the opposite, check which countries are the richest in the World (check GDP) and how many of them are democracies. Voila...

[srbknight 925]

In fact it's the opposite, check which countries are the richest in the World (check GDP) and how many of them are democracies. Voila...

According to National alliance http://endhomelessness.org/ and Huffington post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/16/poverty-household-income_n_5828974.html over 45 million Americans are poor

In the U.S., more than 3.5 million people experience homelessness each year to actual 23 million people.

35% of the homeless population are families with children, which is the fastest growing segment of the homeless population.

23% are U.S. military veterans.

25% are children under the age of 18 years.

30% have experienced domestic violence.

20-25% suffer from mental illness.

In urban communities, people experience homelessness for an average of eight months.

Source:http://www.studentsagainsthunger.org/

You can also see the poverty in Russia which hits over 6.5 million people of actual 147million people (:D Including Crimea) comparing to 1990 and 1998 which are been chaos for Russians where the poor line was hit over 37 million people of actual 139 million !

Let's use democracy in Israel as example

Israel has highest poverty rate in the developed world, OECD report shows

Israel is the most impoverished of the 34 member countries, with a poverty rate of 20.9%, according to a report released by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

Source:http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/israel-is-the-poorest-country-in-developed-world-oecd-report-shows.premium-1.524096

[Rydygier 1309]

Greece is called the birthplace of democracy. What flavour democracy in Greece has now? I encountered term "feudal democracy" - something about three clans/dynasties.

Some general question on democracy then, I'm really courious, what people from various countries really think:

Define democracy - what's obligatory components of the system making it democratic (to be sure, we know, about what exactly we're talking).

Is democracy the best system ever and forever and why?

Is democracy the best system for all countries on the planet and why?

Is democracy in uniform shape the best system for all countries (so every country should adapt its culture, mentality and traditions to certain shape of democracy) or should democracy be adapted to the local specifics (culture, mentality, traditions). Which shape it is if so and why?

Is democracy in modern flavours good enough/optimal or could/should be improved? How and what are the flaws of democracy if so?

Is there any possible decent alternative for democracy?

[srbknight 925]

nice one Rydygier +10

[mistyronin 1181]

According to National alliance http://endhomelessness.org/ and Huffington post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/16/poverty-household-income_n_5828974.html over 45 million Americans are poor

It all depends on how do you define poor. If you use the same scale in those US studies, then 98% of the Russian population is poor.

What could be a good way with a simple data to check which citizens are poor or rich, the average net salary in USD per month (how much money does the average Joe earn in each country):

Norway €3,292

Luxembourg €3,149

Sweden €2,551

Denmark €2,307

Finland €2,300

U.S.A €2,543,88

Canada €2,316,44

United Kingdom €2,253

France €2,180

Netherlands €2,158

Germany €2,154

Spain €1,735

Cyprus €1,574

Slovenia €1,092

Greece €1,004

...

Estonia €832

Croatia €735

Poland €705

...

Brazil €655,63

...

Latvia €601

Turkey €565

Lithuania €544

Russia €487

Montenegro €478

Bosnia and Herzegovina €425

...

Serbia €363

Kosovo €360

...

India €264

...

Ukraine €130

Conclusions:

Russia has some of the poorest citizens in Europe.

Western Europe (all democracies) have the richest citizens.

Even in deeply troubled countries like Greece, the citizens earn twice as a Russia citizen.

In fact even Turks or Baltic citizens earn more money than Russians.

The average U.S. citizen earns 5 times more than a Russian citizen. If you considered US citizens poor... imagine Russians...

And a citizen in Spain that you considered poor before, earns on average almost 4 times what a Russian citizen...

Bosnia and Herzegovina (€425) and Croatia(€735), but specially Slovenia(€1,092) did a great business separating from Serbia (€363).

Edited June 28, 2015 by MistyRonin

[srbknight 925]

It all depends on how do you define poor. If you use the same scale in those US studies, then 98% of the Russian population is poor.

What could be a good way with a simple data to check which citizens are poor or rich, the average net salary in USD per month (how much money does the average Joe earn in each country):

Norway €3,292

Luxembourg €3,149

Sweden €2,551

Denmark €2,307

Finland €2,300

U.S.A €2,543,88

Canada €2,316,44

United Kingdom €2,253

France €2,180

Netherlands €2,158

Germany €2,154

Spain €1,735

Cyprus €1,574

Slovenia €1,092

Greece €1,004

...

Estonia €832

Croatia €735

Poland €705

...

Brazil €655,63

...

Latvia €601

Turkey €565

Lithuania €544

Russia €487

Montenegro €478

Bosnia and Herzegovina €425

...

Serbia €363

Kosovo €360

...

India €264

...

Ukraine €130

Conclusions:

Russia has some of the poorest citizens in Europe.

Western Europe (all democracies) have the richest citizens.

Even in deeply troubled countries like Greece, the citizens earn twice as a Russia citizen.

In fact even Turks or Baltic citizens earn more money than Russians.

The average U.S. citizen earns 5 times more than a Russian citizen. If you considered US citizens poor... imagine Russians...

And a citizen in Spain that you considered poor before, earns on average almost 4 times what a Russian citizen...

Bosnia and Herzegovina (€425) and Croatia(€735), but specially Slovenia(€1,092) did a great business separating from Serbia (€363).

You are flame baiting or what ?? Compare the price let's use example bread in russia and in germany Russia 0.23/€ german 1.28 €

You are really funny guy to me you are full of some documents that are only nominal for those countries for some reason Russian people are not poorer in the europe maybe you have some bad infos about that but nah man Russians are not poor ! With one salary of 55.000 Rubles per month You can pay everything and live nicely life but that is strange for you are not live in Russia !

Russia has 750$ of salary Serbia 430$ salary Kosovo i can't find where you did find that document but Kosovo 190$ Ukraine 290$ salary Now all those countries with "huge" salaries and "expensive" life turn their prices and change the salary docs with debt and do a math and what you get ? %-of GDP !

Edited June 28, 2015 by SRBKnight