The Killing of Osama bin Laden - by Seymour M. Hersh

[.kju 3245]

It’s been four years since a group of US Navy Seals assassinated Osama bin Laden in a night raid on a high-walled compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan. The killing was the high point of Obama’s first term, and a major factor in his re-election. The White House still maintains that the mission was an all-American affair, and that the senior generals of Pakistan’s army and Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI) were not told of the raid in advance. This is false, as are many other elements of the Obama administration’s account. The White House’s story might have been written by Lewis Carroll: would bin Laden, target of a massive international manhunt, really decide that a resort town forty miles from Islamabad would be the safest place to live and command al-Qaida’s operations? He was hiding in the open. So America said.

The most blatant lie was that Pakistan’s two most senior military leaders – General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, chief of the army staff, and General Ahmed Shuja Pasha, director general of the ISI – were never informed of the US mission. This remains the White House position despite an array of reports that have raised questions, including one by Carlotta Gall in the New York Times Magazine of 19 March 2014. Gall, who spent 12 years as the Times correspondent in Afghanistan, wrote that she’d been told by a ‘Pakistani official’ that Pasha had known before the raid that bin Laden was in Abbottabad. The story was denied by US and Pakistani officials, and went no further. In his book Pakistan: Before and after Osama (2012), Imtiaz Gul, executive director of the Centre for Research and Security Studies, a think tank in Islamabad, wrote that he’d spoken to four undercover intelligence officers who – reflecting a widely held local view – asserted that the Pakistani military must have had knowledge of the operation. The issue was raised again in February, when a retired general, Asad Durrani, who was head of the ISI in the early 1990s, told an al-Jazeera interviewer that it was ‘quite possible’ that the senior officers of the ISI did not know where bin Laden had been hiding, ‘but it was more probable that they did [know]. And the idea was that, at the right time, his location would be revealed. And the right time would have been when you can get the necessary quid pro quo – if you have someone like Osama bin Laden, you are not going to simply hand him over to the United States.’

This spring I contacted Durrani and told him in detail what I had learned about the bin Laden assault from American sources: that bin Laden had been a prisoner of the ISI at the Abbottabad compound since 2006; that Kayani and Pasha knew of the raid in advance and had made sure that the two helicopters delivering the Seals to Abbottabad could cross Pakistani airspace without triggering any alarms; that the CIA did not learn of bin Laden’s whereabouts by tracking his couriers, as the White House has claimed since May 2011, but from a former senior Pakistani intelligence officer who betrayed the secret in return for much of the $25 million reward offered by the US, and that, while Obama did order the raid and the Seal team did carry it out, many other aspects of the administration’s account were false.

‘When your version comes out – if you do it – people in Pakistan will be tremendously grateful,’ Durrani told me. ‘For a long time people have stopped trusting what comes out about bin Laden from the official mouths. There will be some negative political comment and some anger, but people like to be told the truth, and what you’ve told me is essentially what I have heard from former colleagues who have been on a fact-finding mission since this episode.’ As a former ISI head, he said, he had been told shortly after the raid by ‘people in the “strategic community†who would know’ that there had been an informant who had alerted the US to bin Laden’s presence in Abbottabad, and that after his killing the US’s betrayed promises left Kayani and Pasha exposed.

The major US source for the account that follows is a retired senior intelligence official who was knowledgeable about the initial intelligence about bin Laden’s presence in Abbottabad. He also was privy to many aspects of the Seals’ training for the raid, and to the various after-action reports. Two other US sources, who had access to corroborating information, have been longtime consultants to the Special Operations Command. I also received information from inside Pakistan about widespread dismay among the senior ISI and military leadership – echoed later by Durrani – over Obama’s decision to go public immediately with news of bin Laden’s death. The White House did not respond to requests for comment.

Full story at: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/seymour-m-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden

PS: For the fun of it in case someone wants to look back at his previous comments:

# Bin Laden Is Dead

# Bin Laden 'Shooter Interview'

[drebin052 324]

Mixing conspiracy theories and rumours with a tiny bit of the truth is not called fact. It's called scaremongering and attention-seeking and it's the exact kind of thing that plenty of 'alternate news' outlets provide already i.e. Prison Planet, Infowars, Centre for Research on Globalisation, Information Clearing House, Paul Craig Roberts, etc.

And you should probably check out his past on similar events before jumping the gun:

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/features/11719/

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/jacob-heilbrunn/seymour-hershs-wild-attack-the-military-neocons-4756

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/20/AR2011012006090.html

...with this one being my favourite:

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n24/seymour-m-hersh/whose-sarin

Having said that I think Pakistan's ISI provided full backing to the U.S. with the critical intel that led to Bin Laden being found (none this blackmail rubbish with two "rogue ISI agents"). The Pakistani government/ISI probably never knew until later on, otherwise the hunt would have been over a long time ago.

[.kju 3245]

Do you really want to be taken seriously with that?

[drebin052 324]

;2935067']Do you really want to be taken seriously with that?

Of course' date=' now I ask the same from you. Do you really believe that this "information" that he got from his mysterious and unnamed "US sources" is credible?

This is coming from a guy who claimed that the Sarin attacks in Syria were done by the Turkish government, and that Opus Dei and the Knights of Malta control the U.S. military (not kidding). Now ask yourself again, why is he revealing this now? If even the likes of Wikileaks and Snowden did not release such juicy information in the past four years since Bin Laden was capped, then what gives this guy's story more credibility all of the sudden?

So try asking yourself this; why do you unconditionally believe that this piece of fiction article has no agenda behind it?

[Richie 330]

In the day following the publication of Seymour Hersh’s scandalous alternative account of the 2011 raid that killed Osama bin Laden, the prize-winning investigative journalist has been pilloried as a fabulist, a fool, and even a fibber.

But one national security expert has a new insult to throw into the mix: plagiarist.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/seymour-hersh-plagiarism-accusation-117827.html#ixzz3ZrUA0hKC

[mistyronin 1181]

Seems that Mr. Hersh wanted some more notoriety and a chance to get more money, tho without proper proof any accusation is just that, an empty accusation.

[.kju 3245]

Seymour Hersh Details Explosive Story on Bin Laden Killing & Responds to White House, Media Backlash

http://www.democracynow.org/2015/5/12/seymour_hersh_details_explosive_story_on

Did Pakistani Gov’t Know Where Osama bin Laden Was Hiding? (2011)

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/2/did_pakistani_govt_know_where_osama

Hersh Did Not Break Bin Laden Cover Up Story

http://www.thespywhobilledme.com/the_spy_who_billed_me/2015/05/hersh-did-not-break-bin-laden-cover-up-story.html

CLAIM: SY HERSH’S BIN LADEN STORY IS TRUE — BUT OLD NEWS

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/05/11/former-professor-reported-basics-hershs-bin-laden-story-2011-seemingly-different-sources/

Pakistanis Knew Where Osama Bin Laden Was, U.S. Sources Say

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pakistanis-knew-where-bin-laden-was-say-us-sources-n357306

[.kju 3245]

It’s a Conspiracy! How to Discredit Seymour Hersh

http://www.thenation.com/blog/207001/its-conspiracy-how-discredit-seymour-hersh

Why Hersh’s Account Is Credible and Why I Believe It Is Correct

https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/why-hershs-account-is-credible-and-why-i-believe-it-is-correct/

Hersh: Obama lied. Obama: No, I didn’t. NBC: Yep, you did. And again just now.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/05/hersh-obama-lied-obama-no-i-didnt-nbc-yep-you-did-and-again-just-now.html

Death of the Bin Laden propaganda machine: Seymour Hersh, “Zero Dark Thirty†and the myths of an assassination

http://www.salon.com/2015/05/11/death_of_the_bin_laden_propaganda_machine_seymour_hersh_%E2%80%9Czero_dark_thirty%E2%80%9D_and_the_myths_of_an_assassination/

Seymour Hersh vs. Judy Miller: The truth about Bin Laden’s death — and the anonymous government sources The New York Times is delighted to print as “truthâ€

http://www.salon.com/2015/05/11/seymour_hersh_vs_judy_miller_the_truth_about_bin_ladens_death_and_the_anonymous_government_sources_the_new_york_times_is_delighted_to_print_as_truth/

[batto 17]

Cool story =). Sounds more credible than official story to me TBH. Mainly because it explains the burial part which is just bullshit in the official story.

[.kju 3245]

The Detail in Seymour Hersh’s Bin Laden Story That Rings True

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/12/magazine/the-detail-in-seymour-hershs-bin-laden-story-that-rings-true.html

[mistyronin 1181]

Cool story =). Sounds more credible than official story to me TBH. Mainly because it explains the burial part which is just bullshit in the official story.

In fact the burial part of the official story is what makes more sense IMO.

In any case. Hersh's creative story doesn't make any sense, it's completely different from the information in the public SEAL's autobiographic accounts or the documents leaked by WikiLeaks and Edward Snowden.

I wonder what's Hersh's final agenda.

[Tonci87 163]

In fact the burial part of the official story is what makes more sense IMO.

In any case. Hersh's creative story doesn't make any sense, it's completely different from the information in the public SEAL's autobiographic accounts or the documents leaked by WikiLeaks and Edward Snowden.

I wonder what's Hersh's final agenda.

Making a shitload of money by selling books to gullible people and appearing on TV as an "expert"?

[.kju 3245]

Bin Laden’s Assassination: a Volcano of Lies (original article from 2011)

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/05/12/bin-ladens-assassination-a-volcano-of-lies/

The Manufactured Myth of Bin Laden’s Death (original article from 2013)

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/05/12/the-manufactured-myth-of-bin-ladens-death/

Bin Laden’s End: The Truth Comes Out

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2015/05/12/bin-ladens-end-the-truth-comes-out/

[batto 17]

Hersh's creative story doesn't make any sense

Where? Makes perfect sense to me.

it's completely different from the information in the public SEAL's autobiographic accounts

His story explains that.

or the documents leaked by WikiLeaks and Edward Snowden.

Stop referring to these. WikiLeaks is most famous for diplomatic cable leaks and Ed leaked NSA documents. If they actually leaked CIA documents now that would be some fun read =)).

I wonder what's Hersh's final agenda.

I don't know and I don't assert that his story is true or not but I wonder what makes the government story more credible than his. I mean the same government that has been caught lying many many times before and the same government that pays one agency to do (illegal) stuff covertly and lie about it. Government role is not telling the truth to its citizens.

[mistyronin 1181]

Government role is not telling the truth to its citizens.

No. It's not any democratic government's role to lie to its citizens. That happens often in authoritarian regimes like Russia or in crazy dictatorships like North Korea, but not even there is their role.

About the rest of your remarks, that's your opinion.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

[chrisb 196]

No. It's not any democratic government's role to lie to its citizens. That happens often in authoritarian regimes like Russia or in crazy dictatorships like North Korea, but not even there is their role.

About the rest of your remarks, that's your opinion.

You yourself, can't truly believe what you have written here, can you ?

I can think of many MP's, prime ministers, presidents etc. That lie almost continuously it seems.

Blair, Bush (both), Brown, Obama, Thatcher, just to mention a few western ones, that have lied 'barefaced'. Never mind eastern politics.

[drebin052 324]

I can think of many MP's, prime ministers, presidents etc. That lie almost continuously it seems.

Blair, Bush (both), Brown, Obama, Thatcher, just to mention a few western ones, that have lied 'barefaced'. Never mind eastern politics.

You're right. That does not however, validate a guy who has made so many false claims in the last few years (and was even forced to retract a few of them) "right" all of the sudden.

For instance...

The guys knew the TOT [time on target] had to be tight because they would wake up the whole town going in,’ the retired official said. The cockpit of the crashed Black Hawk, with its communication and navigational gear, had to be destroyed by concussion grenades, and this would create a series of explosions and a fire visible for miles.

[...]

On a normal assault mission, the retired official said, there would be no waiting around if a chopper went down. ‘The Seals would have finished the mission, thrown off their guns and gear, and jammed into the remaining Black Hawk and di-di-maued’ – Vietnamese slang for leaving in a rush – ‘out of there, with guys hanging out of the doors. They would not have blown the chopper – no commo gear is worth a dozen lives – unless they knew they were safe.

He continually mentions this retired official (that he refuses to name) that somehow knows every little intricate detail about the operation. Since when did unnamed sources alone suffice as complete evidence of government duplicity?

Shall I also say that 9/11 was conclusively an inside job, that the Illuminati control the U.S. Congress, and that Obama really is a Chinese double agent, all because my unnamed CIA source told me? Perhaps we should consult Brian Williams on this matter. I hear he's quite knowledgeable about all this! *wink *wink *nudge *nudge

[chrisb 196]

Shall I also say that 9/11 was conclusively an inside job, that the Illuminati control the U.S. Congress, and that Obama really is a Chinese double agent, all because my unnamed CIA source told me? Perhaps we should consult Brian Williams on this matter. I hear he's quite knowledgeable about all this! *wink *wink *nudge *nudge

You seem to know quite a lot, you don't have a funny handshake.. do you..;)

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

@drebin - That's brilliant, and so hilariously bullshit. (The 2nd quote, not anything you said) "They would not have blown the chopper" doesn't he know anything about the U.S. Military, or military operations and procedures in general? I mean come on, that that's what we did in Somalia in '93 for crying out loud. They were stuck for a full day trying to cut the bodies of the pilots out, but once they were out *they burned/destroyed the helicopter* because that is standard U.S. Military operating procedure if an aircraft cannot be recovered. The cockpit would have records, flight plans, radio information, sensitive technology, etc. etc. etc. and if the aircraft cannot be destroyed by it's crew, or friendly ground forces, due to time constraints or it's location, then they'll simply call in an airstrike and flatten it. Except only the first option was available here, so...

[.kju 3245]

“I Am Not Backing Off Anything I Saidâ€

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/05/seymour_hersh_interview_on_his_bin_laden_story_the_new_yorker_journalism.html

Pakistan military officials admit defector's key role in Bin Laden operation

http://www.dawn.com/news/1181530/pakistan-military-officials-admit-defectors-key-role-in-bin-laden-operation

‘White House Doesn't Like Adverse Stories,' Says Seymour Hersh As He Defends His Bin Laden Story

http://www.ibtimes.com/white-house-doesnt-adverse-stories-says-seymour-hersh-he-defends-his-bin-laden-story-1917767

Blogger says ‘there’s no way’ Seymour Hersh didn’t see her 2011 bin Laden story

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/blogger-says-theres-no-way-seymour-hersh-didnt-see-her-2011-bin-laden-story/

In a slightly more serious vein he added: “I probably did not even know what a blog was four years ago…at the least, just barely.

No social media skills, or social skills, for that matter, at all.â€

Seymour Hersh on death of Osama bin Laden: ‘It’s one big lie, not one word of it is true’ (2013)

http://www.rawstory.com/2013/09/seymour-hersh-on-death-of-osama-bin-laden-its-one-big-lie-not-one-word-of-it-is-true/

[mistyronin 1181]

You yourself, can't truly believe what you have written here, can you ?

I can think of many MP's, prime ministers, presidents etc. That lie almost continuously it seems.

So you think that the democratic gov's role is to lie to its citizens? Interesting... :j:

On the other hand I haven't said that democratic govs haven't ever lied, but obviously way less frequently than authoritarian regimes like Russia, or they would have been ousted from the Gov. You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to see that...

[batto 17]

No. It's not any democratic government's role to lie to its citizens.

So you think that the democratic gov's role is to lie to its citizens? Interesting... :j:

No one said that. It was said that role of government is not telling the truth to its citizens. It's kinda obvious. In case of US think CIA/NSA for instance. OK, it's time to let this go =).

What I find most unbelievable on Hersh's story is the huge risk associated with whole operation. The lever US had on Pakistan wouldn't help in case of accidental and unwanted leak from any side which would expose Obama as liar before elections.

Edited May 14, 2015 by batto

[-Snafu- 78]

What's Wrong with Seymour Hersh's Conspiracy Theory

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/159377

[chrisb 196]

I think a lot of what we see and hear concerning this type of thing is fabricated in a way to suit the government concerned. But that's isn't new, its propaganda, which has been around forever (probably). Tell someone what you want them to know about something, then bend the truth if you want them to believe what your saying, in a certain way, that gets your point across to your advantage.

We the British did this a lot during the second world war, propaganda to suit the governments point of view and in many cases to help lift the spirits of the nation, especially early in the war. But that's life, these things happen and its just a matter of believing what you believe. In the end its all you can do, its down to the person to decide for themselves what, they believe, is or isn't 'fact'. Because your not going to get to the full truth, or very rarely. Maybe perhaps decades later when docs are released, even then it leaves many questions unanswered.

Best just to get on with your life and hope it doesn't touch you in a way that impacts you or your family negatively. I know this is a narrow way to view it, but really that is what it comes down too in the end, each to their own.