Lack of content in vanilla Arma 3

[UkropyPrivyet 32]

EDIT:

As response to the post that this was originally replied to: If there's anything I'd like to see from this game in the future it'd be a "free" tag on the miniature DLCs as I've already paid for the full game and, considering they even admitted to releasing it when it was stable rather than when it was completed, it's content that should've been in-game upon full release in the first place. The current in game content is lacking quite a bit for a $60 game, especially from such a developer. Guess I've learned my lesson about preordering from this developer, and I will never repeat the mistakes I made in purchasing DayZ and ArmA III in early access as for one game the devs say that "IT'S AN ALFER YOU CAN'T COMPLAIN" and for this one the developers took the money and ran after delivering nowhere near the amount of unique content that was showcased.

Huh, I could've sworn I posted this in reply to another thread, but maybe it was moved to its own thread so as to actually be talked about and not ruin a thread that was on topic, even though my post pertained to the dicussion.

Edited January 21, 2015 by FR4NCH3K

[Jona33 51]

I want to see the pricetag say "free" as I already paid for the game but only got a quarter of the content.

He's back! Haven't we had an argument about this before, where you offered absolutely no proof but threw around plenty of hyperbole?

[UkropyPrivyet 32]

He's back! Haven't we had an argument about this before, where you offered absolutely no proof but threw around plenty of hyperbole?

I don't know which one you are, are you the one where I had to point out that adding a grenade launcher, shortening, or lengthening a barrel does not make something a completely new weapon and does not constitute on adding tons of content? What proof am I supposed to provide, the fact that I bought a game set in the future where everyone uses copy-pasted weapons? Do you want me to provide you with early-alpha screenshots where there was an F-35, a V-22, an XM-25, an M1014, where all Israeli weapons were used by CSAT because, canonically, CSAT annexes Israel and continues domestic production? How about the screenshot with the 8 or 9 different special forces units from Poland, America, Britain, Italy, and Germany? How about where those screenshots have tonnes of gear that is not seen in game? What about the railgun tank? What level of proof do I have to show to you to get it through your skull that there's a ton of content that was cut from this game that will either be back in later iterations for pay or just won't be back at all? Do I have to pry open your eyes?

[AveryTheKitty 2626]

I don't know which one you are, are you the one where I had to point out that adding a grenade launcher, shortening, or lengthening a barrel does not make something a completely new weapon and does not constitute on adding tons of content? What proof am I supposed to provide, the fact that I bought a game set in the future where everyone uses copy-pasted weapons? Do you want me to provide you with early-alpha screenshots where there was an F-35, a V-22, an XM-25, an M1014, where all Israeli weapons were used by CSAT because, canonically, CSAT annexes Israel and continues domestic production? How about the screenshot with the 8 or 9 different special forces units from Poland, America, Britain, Italy, and Germany? How about where those screenshots have tonnes of gear that is not seen in game? What about the railgun tank? What level of proof do I have to show to you to get it through your skull that there's a ton of content that was cut from this game that will either be back in later iterations for pay or just won't be back at all? Do I have to pry open your eyes?

That picture is unofficial afaik. Look closely, it's all edited.

[Jona33 51]

I don't know which one you are, are you the one where I had to point out that adding a grenade launcher, shortening, or lengthening a barrel does not make something a completely new weapon and does not constitute on adding tons of content? What proof am I supposed to provide, the fact that I bought a game set in the future where everyone uses copy-pasted weapons? Do you want me to provide you with early-alpha screenshots where there was an F-35, a V-22, an XM-25, an M1014, where all Israeli weapons were used by CSAT because, canonically, CSAT annexes Israel and continues domestic production? How about the screenshot with the 8 or 9 different special forces units from Poland, America, Britain, Italy, and Germany? How about where those screenshots have tonnes of gear that is not seen in game? What about the railgun tank? What level of proof do I have to show to you to get it through your skull that there's a ton of content that was cut from this game that will either be back in later iterations for pay or just won't be back at all? Do I have to pry open your eyes?

I'm the one who actually posted the content list, and never saw another post from you again. You claimed it was "sickening" that they sold you a game with this little content, I provided proof and tell you what, I've got the editor open, I'll start counting.

NATO

Five primary weapons (MX,MXSW,MXM,SDAR,M320)

Two secondary weapons

Three launchers

Three helicopters

One jet

Sixarmoured vehicles (AMV,The panther and Cheetah, Two slammers, the scorcher, the bobcat and the MLRS)

Two unarmoured vehicles

Three boats

Four static weapons

One submarine

Two vests

Three main types of helmet

One main uniform

FIA

One primary weapon

Couple of offroads, that's about it for their unique content

Various uniforms, various headgear,various unarmoured vests

AAF

Two primary weapons (MK20, MK200)

One secondary weapon

Two helicopters

One jet

Three armoured vehicles

Two unarmoured vehicles

About it, static weapons etc being shared.

Two vests

one helmet

CSAT

Three primary weapons

Two secondary weapons

Two helicopters

One jet

Three armoured vehicles (The sochor and Tigris using NATO turrets on T100 chassis so I'll leave them).

Two unarmoured vehicles

I think that's it for them

Fancy uniform (one version).

Fancy helmet, one model (with a couple of tiny variations).

Civilians (unrepresented but whatever).

Five unarmoured vehicles

One new boat

I think about five uniform models and variations on them.

Obviously some of this stuff is shared across factions (like the SDAR) so I haven't counted those again.

Two islands, 270km^2 and 20km^2.

25 mission campaign (check the other thread).

13 (I think) showcases

A few MP gamemodes, no idea about those

A bunny rabbit

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Given the NATO has only 1 SW weapon, they should be handed the LSAT. It would make sense, i thinkthe LSAT was supposed to be a NATO LMG.

[UkropyPrivyet 32]

That picture is unofficial afaik. Look closely, it's all edited.

That's the thing though: It's really not. Many of the things are found in the program files and can be found in some of the older customization menus, such as the OD green uniform (called SF Green Uniform, iirc) and berets, as well as the shemagh which has obviously made its way to the game. As for the other camos, I cannot say if they're official or not, but I somehow doubt someone took the time to make that stuff, especially since there are a few completely unused uniform templates in game (like the MTP uniform, worn)

I'm the one who actually posted the content list, and never saw another post from you again. You claimed it was "sickening" that they sold you a game with this little content, I provided proof and tell you what, I've got the editor open, I'll start counting.

NATO

Five primary weapons (MX,MXSW,MXM,SDAR,M320)

Two secondary weapons

Three launchers

Three helicopters

One jet

Sixarmoured vehicles (AMV,The panther and Cheetah, Two slammers, the scorcher, the bobcat and the MLRS)

Two unarmoured vehicles

Three boats

Four static weapons

One submarine

Two vests

Three main types of helmet

One main uniform

FIA

One primary weapon

Couple of offroads, that's about it for their unique content

Various uniforms, various headgear,various unarmoured vests

AAF

Two primary weapons (MK20, MK200)

One secondary weapon

Two helicopters

One jet

Three armoured vehicles

Two unarmoured vehicles

About it, static weapons etc being shared.

Two vests

one helmet

CSAT

Three primary weapons

Two secondary weapons

Two helicopters

One jet

Three armoured vehicles (The sochor and Tigris using NATO turrets on T100 chassis so I'll leave them).

Two unarmoured vehicles

I think that's it for them

Fancy uniform (one version).

Fancy helmet, one model (with a couple of tiny variations).

Civilians (unrepresented but whatever).

Five unarmoured vehicles

One new boat

I think about five uniform models and variations on them.

Obviously some of this stuff is shared across factions (like the SDAR) so I haven't counted those again.

Two islands, 270km^2 and 20km^2.

25 mission campaign (check the other thread).

13 (I think) showcases

A few MP gamemodes, no idea about those

A bunny rabbit

Oh cool, you did the same thing as last time where you spread everything out and lied completely. The MX is one series of rifle, not a bunch of different rifles that can be thought of as separate, same for the grenade launcher. All auto-cannons are the same, all mortars are the same, all artillery pieces are the same, all static weapons are the same, all anti-air turrets are the same, all GMGs are the same, all HMGs are the same. The Slammer is, once again, a single tank and a variant with a slightly different texture doesn't count. The Namer APC is quite literally the slammer without a turret. The mine clearing vehicle is the Namer APC with some extra stuff tacked on. The Katiba and all variants are the exact same.

You listed MAYBE one-hundred pieces of content (not counting story and all that, as I'm not really nit-picking the story though I do hate it as they completely changed the premise from the original one.) that have a lot of the exact same elements shared and, when they're not the same (Katiba compared to MX, F2000 compared to Tavor) they perform the exact same in every single way and have no statistics. There is no difference other than the way they look on the outside and it's stupid. This is akin to what America's Army 3 did where they just made up a gun that is just an AR equivalent so that one team wouldn't have AKs and there wouldn't be a difference. This game is a blah sandwich. No one I know wants to play the game because there is no real level of content in it, because even though you can sprawl it all out like you did and make it look bit and make it appear to have a lot of depth, it's all just copy and pasted and is the exact same core with a different shell. Hey, at least you didn't count the MX Black variants this time.

EDIT:

Given the NATO has only 1 SW weapon, they should be handed the LSAT. It would make sense, i thinkthe LSAT was supposed to be a NATO LMG.

Actually yes I do believe it was. As I've said in a few threads recently, look back into the old, OLD screenshots of the alpha and watch some older videos and this game was supposed to be much different. The story originally planned for CSAT to have annexed Israel and continue domestic production of weapons like the TRG-21 (Tavor), Zafir (Negev), Slammer MBT (Merkava), MRAP (Oshkosh M-ATV) and a few other things. But because Bohemia decided to completely mess that up (even though they had already built the models and textured them and all that) they just kinda spread the content out through the ranks.

Edited January 21, 2015 by FR4NCH3K

[clawhammer 10]

That picture is unofficial afaik. Look closely, it's all edited.

Link to that picture?

[Maio 293]

Link to that picture?

LINK

I believe it was made by antoineflemming.

[clawhammer 10]

LINK

I believe it was made by antoineflemming.

Thanks, i saw that picture, but dont know when. Typically it is the same dude with different headgear. Nothing you cannot achiev with the virtual arsenal by yourself.

[slim_pikins 12]

The answer is simple if you want the content go make some, my group has. Just imagine you would have nothing to complain about, and I can tell your content would be far better than BIS's efforts, I look forward to seeing your endeavors published.

[Jackal326 1181]

The answer is simple if you want the content go make some, my group has. Just imagine you would have nothing to complain about, and I can tell your content would be far better than BIS's efforts, I look forward to seeing your endeavors published.

High five.

[vegeta897 13]

I want to see the pricetag say "free" as I already paid for the game but only got a quarter of the content.

A quarter of what content? The content in your imagination?

If you think Arma 3 is the only game to ever have shown concepts that don't make it into the game, I'm dumbfounded.

This thread is completely pointless and simply a rehash of many threads we've had before. Nothing valuable can come from it, other than a suggestion to download or start making mods.

[Sterlingarcherz101 15]

High five.

Frank has valid reasons to be annoyed. and I dare say anyone at Bis would be annoyed at him for feeling that way. they know they shuffled priority because of internal problems and dayz... Having the ability to mod is not an excuse for the lack of content and copy paste. So don't use the "go make some argument". it's not clever.

alternativeIt would be like if there were an alternative version of A3 release. It had lots of assets but was a problem with modding side. and Frank came on and suggested you just buy the new heli DLC and use that " oh high five Frank".

I remember going from arma1 to arma2 and thinking wow look at all the new content.

Arma2 to arma3. I thought nothing about assets. Same same less of it too much copy paste.

I'm not about assets, I like the new features, Frank clearly wants new assets that is his thing. And he is entitled to it.

[Jona33 51]

Oh cool, you did the same thing as last time where you spread everything out and lied completely. The MX is one series of rifle, not a bunch of different rifles that can be thought of as separate, same for the grenade launcher. All auto-cannons are the same, all mortars are the same, all artillery pieces are the same, all static weapons are the same, all anti-air turrets are the same, all GMGs are the same, all HMGs are the same. The Slammer is, once again, a single tank and a variant with a slightly different texture doesn't count. The Namer APC is quite literally the slammer without a turret. The mine clearing vehicle is the Namer APC with some extra stuff tacked on. The Katiba and all variants are the exact same.

You listed MAYBE one-hundred pieces of content (not counting story and all that, as I'm not really nit-picking the story though I do hate it as they completely changed the premise from the original one.) that have a lot of the exact same elements shared and, when they're not the same (Katiba compared to MX, F2000 compared to Tavor) they perform the exact same in every single way and have no statistics. There is no difference other than the way they look on the outside and it's stupid. This is akin to what America's Army 3 did where they just made up a gun that is just an AR equivalent so that one team wouldn't have AKs and there wouldn't be a difference. This game is a blah sandwich. No one I know wants to play the game because there is no real level of content in it, because even though you can sprawl it all out like you did and make it look bit and make it appear to have a lot of depth, it's all just copy and pasted and is the exact same core with a different shell. Hey, at least you didn't count the MX Black variants this time.

Show me one single point there that is categorically untrue. Do you not count the m4 and m16 in ARMA II as separate weapons? Because one's basically a short version of the other and that's my counting logic, if the model is substantially different, there you go.

As to your "all the guns are the same", surprise surprise, all guns in real life are the same. They all shoot bullets, have triggers, have stuff you can attach. They do different amounts of damage based on the calibre, and they have different recoils. Just about every gun in the world works on the same basic principle. What else do you want? In addition, I deliberately avoided counting stuff that is directly copied and pasted. I'm not denying that there is generic copy and paste (the Static weapons being the most obvious example), and obviously some armoured vehicles use the same chassis (and or turret), therefore I didn't count the both sochor and the scorcher.

Also you accuse me of lying, and then you end your reply to me with a flat out lie. You know full fucking well I didn't count the colour variants last time (because I specifically mentioned it and you replied to that part of the comment) so get off your hypocritical high horse and deal with it. You are not entitled to anything more, you bought a game, you were given a game. The game works. There is no obligation to give you more stuff because you feel shortchanged.

*Missed out an SMG for each faction as well.

[Jackal326 1181]

Frank has valid reasons to be annoyed. and I dare say anyone at Bis would be annoyed at him for feeling that way. they know they shuffled priority because of internal problems and dayz... Having the ability to mod is not an excuse for the lack of content and copy paste. So don't use the "go make some argument". it's not clever.

alternativeIt would be like if there were an alternative version of A3 release. It had lots of assets but was a problem with modding side. and Frank came on and suggested you just buy the new heli DLC and use that " oh high five Frank".

I remember going from arma1 to arma2 and thinking wow look at all the new content.

Arma2 to arma3. I thought nothing about assets. Same same less of it too much copy paste.

I'm not about assets, I like the new features, Frank clearly wants new assets that is his thing. And he is entitled to it.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. My earlier reply should have been more specific instead of quoting Slim_Pikins' whole post, I should have just quoted the part I was high fiving for which was the first sentence, the summary of which was "Me and my group were miffed at the lack of content too, so we made our own stuff and are a lot happier now".

At the end of the day, I bought the Alpha the moment it went live on STEAM. I'd have bought it even knowing how the game would end up come full release because I knew that mods would enable me to mould the game into what I wanted/needed it to be. OFP was limited in scope and addons (eventually) made it the game it became (and still is). ArmA was a step up in graphics but little else (but addons and mods made it what it became). ArmA2 was another step up in graphics with the biggest content additions of the series (but most of which came from the Arrowhead expansion). ArmA3 is limited in scope again (and set in the future fighting Iranian bug men :mad:), but its had a few smaller DLCs and is still yet to have its expansion pack. You're comparing a game that has only been out a little over 16 months (at full release state anyway) against a game that has been out for almost 6 years, content for which was easier to port from its predecessor due to ArmA2 not featuring things like PhysX and such.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Jackal326

[vegeta897 13]

And he is entitled to it.

Says who? Did the Steam page say it would have vehicles or weapons that it ended up not having? In what way is he entitled to more content? If he's entitled to that, why isn't anyone entitled to anything they please? Not being happy with how much content the game has doesn't mean you're entitled to more. I wish there was a large submarine in Arma 3. They talked about underwater combat and operations, why only one mini sub? Am I entitled to another submarine, just because it would fit in the game and I want it really badly?

[Jackal326 1181]

Says who? Did the Steam page say it would have vehicles or weapons that it ended up not having? In what way is he entitled to more content? If he's entitled to that, why isn't anyone entitled to anything they please? Not being happy with how much content the game has doesn't mean you're entitled to more. I wish there was a large submarine in Arma 3. They talked about underwater combat and operations, why only one mini sub? Am I entitled to another submarine, just because it would fit in the game and I want it really badly?

According to Sterlingarcherz101 and FR4NCH3K yes you are. According to the dictates of common sense, no, you're not ;)

[ProfTournesol 956]

Says who? Did the Steam page say it would have vehicles or weapons that it ended up not having? In what way is he entitled to more content? If he's entitled to that, why isn't anyone entitled to anything they please? Not being happy with how much content the game has doesn't mean you're entitled to more. I wish there was a large submarine in Arma 3. They talked about underwater combat and operations, why only one mini sub? Am I entitled to another submarine, just because it would fit in the game and I want it really badly?

Indeed.

[devilslayersbane 28]

Missed out an SMG for each faction as well.

So let's see:

4 Service Rifles with variants (Katiba, Mx, Mk20, TRG-20/1)

1 Underwater Rifle (SDAR)

2 Marksman Rifles (Mk18 ABR, Rahim)

2 LMG's (Zafir, Mk200)

3 SMG's (Sting, Vermin, PDW)

5 Pistols (ACP-C2, 4-five, Zubr, P07, Rook-40)

2 Sniper Rifles (GM6 Lynx, M320)

4 Launchers (Titan AA, Titan AT, RPG-42, PCML)

3 MRAPS (Hunter, Ifrit, Strider)

3 Trucks (HEMTT, Zamak, Tempest)

5 Transport helos

2 Gunships

3 CAS Jets

4 Static weapons

1 Technical

3 Unique Wheeled APC's

3 Unique MBT's

2 Unique Tracked APC's

2 (albeit identical) Artillery Pieces

2 (albeit identical) AA Guns

3 Unique Autonomous vehicles

2 Unique Underbarrel GL's

3 Unique Boats

4 Unique Civilian Vehicles

1 Civilian Helo

270km sq Island

20km sq Island

An Arma Campaign with decent voice acting

12-13 showcase missions

A Real-time 3d editor

A Virtual Arsenal to see what you kit your character with

multiple suppressors, rail attachments, and optics

Interchangeable uniforms, vests, and backpacks

Extra content coming out with DLC content for free

I'm having trouble finding where I'm supposed to feel shortchanged. Almost all of this content was handcrafted for ArmA 3, not just put together as remnants of a cancelled project (*cough* *game2* *cough*). But seriously, that's why Arma 2 had such an overwhelming library of content, because the models were leftovers. Yeah, they had screenshots of F35's and Opfor Camo'd Hunters, but those things didn't make the cut for one reason or another. If you'd gone through the Sitreps and devblogs you'd know this already. Arma 3's release was by far the most stable, even if it didn't have loads of content. And just for the record, there are significant differences between the Namer APC and the Merkava. Not to mention, if you're looking for variation in weapon stats, armor stats, etc, you need to visit the arsenal. It'll tell you most of this stuff. In terms of rifles, there are plenty of differences even between the MXM and the MXC. Recoil may be the same, but the dispersion on the MXM makes it much more effective upwards of 250 meters. The 4-five puts the ACP-C2 to shame. Etc. Jona33, btw this isn't directed at you, it's directed towards Frank.

You know what, yeah, I would've liked to have seen more variation in terms of weapon design between CSAT and NATO. CSAT, should've been using the 12.7x105mm Russian MG round, like they use in the GM6, not the 12.7x99mm NATO MG. It would've also been nice to have had separate static weapons like a modern variant of the Dshk. Alas, we didn't get it. Hopefully, they'll throw in more content with the expansion. Either way, with the list above I'm pretty happy with what I got out of my $30.

Edited January 21, 2015 by devilslayersbane

[Jona33 51]

So let's see:

4 Service Rifles with variants (Katiba, Mx, Mk20, TRG-20/1)

1 Underwater Rifle (SDAR)

2 Marksman Rifles (Mk18 ABR, Rahim)

2 LMG's (Zafir, Mk200)

3 SMG's (Sting, Vermin, PDW)

5 Pistols (ACP-C2, 4-five, Zubr, P07, Rook-40)

2 Sniper Rifles (GM6 Lynx, M320)

4 Launchers (Titan AA, Titan AT, RPG-42, PCML)

3 MRAPS (Hunter, Ifrit, Strider)

3 Trucks (HEMTT, Zamak, Tempest)

5 Transport helos

2 Gunships

3 CAS Jets

4 Static weapons

1 Technical

3 Unique Wheeled APC's

3 Unique MBT's

2 Unique Tracked APC's

2 (albeit identical) Artillery Pieces

2 (albeit identical) AA Guns

3 Unique Autonomous vehicles

2 Unique Underbarrel GL's

3 Unique Boats

4 Unique Civilian Vehicles

1 Civilian Helo

270km sq Island

20km sq Island

An Arma Campaign with decent voice acting

12-13 showcase missions

A Real-time 3d editor

A Virtual Arsenal to see what you kit your character with

multiple suppressors, rail attachments, and optics

Interchangeable uniforms, vests, and backpacks

Extra content coming out with DLC content for free

I'm having trouble finding where I'm supposed to feel shortchanged. All of this content was handcrafted for ArmA 3, not just put together as remnants of a cancelled project (*cough* *game2* *cough*). But seriously, that's why Arma 2 had such an overwhelming library of content, because the models were leftovers. Yeah, they had screenshots of F35's and Opfor Camo'd Hunters, but those things didn't make the cut for one reason or another. If you'd gone through the Sitreps and devblogs you'd know this already. Arma 3's release was by far the most stable, even if it didn't have loads of content. And just for the record, there are significant differences between the Namer APC and the Merkava. Not to mention, if you're looking for variation in weapon stats, armor stats, etc, you need to visit the arsenal. It'll tell you most of this stuff. In terms of rifles, there are plenty of differences even between the MXM and the MXC. Recoil may be the same, but the dispersion on the MXM makes it much more effective upwards of 250 meters. The 4-five puts the ACP-C2 to shame. Etc. Jona33, btw this isn't directed at you, it's directed towards Frank.

You know what, yeah, I would've liked to have seen more variation in terms of weapon design between CSAT and NATO. CSAT, should've been using the 12.7x105mm Russian MG round, like they use in the GM6, not the 12.7x99mm NATO MG. It would've also been nice to have had separate static weapons like a modern variant of the Dshk. Alas, we didn't get it. Hopefully, they'll throw in more content with the expansion. Either way, with the list above I'm pretty happy with what I got out of my $30.

^That, that's much better organised than mine. (Though I'd take off the civilian helo as it's basically an MH-9).

[enex 11]

about DLCs: Features free CONTENT PAID

[chiefboatsret 14]

To the malcontents; Get a lawyer and sue BIS for all their misdeeds to get your life altering and bank account draining $60 back (probably less than that). You pays your money and takes your chances, deal with it and move on. Grow the fuck up.

[simon1279 52]

please keep civil

[devilslayersbane 28]

^That, that's much better organised than mine. (Though I'd take off the civilian helo as it's basically an MH-9).

I would except it's a civillian helo. That's worth noting in an ArmA game. Especially since I can't seem to get the doors on the military variants.

---------- Post added at 11:04 ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 ----------

about DLCs: Features free CONTENT PAID

Semi true. The M-900 and new Orca variant came out with the Helo DLC, but are/were not considered premium.