U.S. Army is seeking new handgun

[eddo36 16]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/03/news/companies/army-gun-new-beretta/index.html

After about 30 years of using the Italian-made Beretta as the primary sidearm pistol for the U.S. military, the Pentagon is seeking a new gun contract.

For gun manufacturers, this kind of a contract is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

While the Beretta lasted three decades, the U.S. military's first semiautomatic standard-issue sidearm, the M1911 from Colt, lasted nearly 90 years. It was issued during the U.S. war in the Philippines through the World Wars to Vietnam and beyond.

No wonder manufacturers are already starting to line up. An Army spokesman told CNNMoney that a request for proposal for a new standard-issue sidearm is going out in January.

Smith & Wesson (SWHC) and General Dynamics (GD) have announced that they are entering the M&P, a popular pistol, into the competition.

Beretta told CNNMoney that it too is entering the contest.

Any contract with the U.S. Army is a big deal, and not just because American soldiers will be carrying them for many years. But guns chosen by the military achieve cult status, used as iconic weapons in James Bond and other action movies, and become highly desirable among civilian gun owners too.

The Beretta M9, used by the U.S. Army since 1985, is manufactured by a 500-year-old Italian company, which has a factory in Maryland. The Beretta was the "lethal weapon" in the 1987 box office hit action movie "Lethal Weapon."

Gabriele de Plano, vice president of marketing military sales for Beretta, said his company has sold 600,000 M9s to the Department of Defense, mostly for use by the Army. It currently has a contract to sell 20,000 more.

The aluminum-framed Beretta's main competitor has been the Glock, an Austrian-made, partially polymer pistol that went mainstream with its appearance in "Die Hard."

The lightweight Glock revolutionized handguns, with its innovative design using polymer, or plastic, in the handle and frame, instead of metal or wood. The Glock has since become one of the most popular handguns used by cops, as well as civilians.

The Army has not specified whether it wants these lighter plastic-framed handguns. But it already made that switch for rifles during the Vietnam War, when it swapped its heavy wood-and-metal M-14 for the mostly plastic M-16, and eventually switched to an even lighter and more compact rifle, the currently-issued M4.

Smith & Wesson seems to believe the Army would want to go plastic. The company says that its polymer M&P pistol is a good fit for the U.S. Army, which is looking for "a new modular handgun system that can be easily adjusted to fit all hand sizes."

Polymer pistols have become increasingly popular as lightweight and ergonomic, particularly among women, a fast-growing demographic among gun users.

So the M9 isn't cutting it anymore?

[warlord554 2065]

The M9 hasnt been cutting it a long time. From caliber faults to mechanical failures due to crappy mags for example. I think sig sauer or hk should be highly considered, as they are several weapons trusted by many SF teams worldwide. Im a personal fan of the .45, go big or go home

[lesscubes 1]

I shoot as a hobby, and only as a hobby, so take my words with a grain of salt.

I don't like the Beretta 92. The controls are funky, it's very large for what it is, and it doesn't offer much positive over other 9mm's on the market. SIG makes a better DA/SA gun in it's 22x series guns. Major police departments in the US pretty much all run either a Glock, a S&W M&P or the SIG 226 or 229. And the reason for that isn't just limited to aggressive marketing by those companies.

That all said, I don't get looking at replacing them at this point in time. Unless the Armed forces stocks of Beretta's are just absolutely worn out, why replace them? Perhaps focus on getting new guns to those few who really, really run their handguns hard but not as a broad program.

The M&P is nice, anyways. I don't like the trigger but the gun feels as good in the hand and points as well as anything short of a Browning High Power or M1911. Cops like 'em.

Edited to add- The Caliber thing is goofy. 9mm=.45ACP in a modern load. Unfortunately Jacketed Hollow points are verboten , yet we've devised so many actually devious and horrible ways of maiming the enemy since they were banned...

Edited December 4, 2014 by lesscubes
Mo' ramblin'

[eddo36 16]

Not trying to be sexist but something to take into consideration. Females tend to have smaller size hands than males, and they are growing in numbers in the military, thus maybe the caliber should stay at 9mm and not higher? Since recoil is less on 9mm.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Eddo36

[warlord554 2065]

Very true. Ive trained women (civilian and military) in combat pistol tactics, and the recoil is the number one complaint about larger calibers. They can handle the thunder after some practice though. If your a good shot then caliber wont play a huge role, but ive had a few scary moments using 9mms haha. Alot of modern handguns would fill the role nicely. I cant stand glocks, but they are very reliable

[roberthammer 582]

Like i know US army , it will end probably same as M4 replacement - that it will be cancelled and maybe they will end up upgrading M9s instead

My choice would be the Sig or Glock , Hks are good but rather expensive like the Hk45

.45 acp is of course better than 9mm , but it will depend on how much 9mm or .45acp US army got and how much they want to spend money on new ammo

Edited December 4, 2014 by RobertHammer

[mistyronin 1181]

If I were them I'd go for the HK45 or the old M1911 refurbished. A handgun don't really need to be top-tech but reliable and proven. I also dislike glocks.

[krycek 349]

Like RH said I hope this doesn't turn into another M4 replacement fiasco,in the case of M9 they chose it because it was cheaper to make.

I hope they switch to Glocks or Sigs,9mm(still decent round) or 45.

[roberthammer 582]

If I were them I'd go for the HK45 or the old M1911 refurbished. A handgun don't really need to be top-tech but reliable and proven. I also dislike glocks.

Yea , most logical and less expensive option would be to upgrade M9s to M9A1 and upgrade the old M1911s too - like the US Marine Corps did

I'm not a Glock fan neither just recently Brits replaced BHP with Glock 17 Gen4

Edited December 4, 2014 by RobertHammer

[eddo36 16]

If I were them I'd go for the HK45 or the old M1911 refurbished. A handgun don't really need to be top-tech but reliable and proven. I also dislike glocks.

Problem with that is females handle the low 9mm recoil better than .45

[Tonci87 163]

Maybe they will consider using the Springfield XD (HS2000) like many US police officers and the FBI.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HS2000

http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd-series/

[onlyrazor 11]

You people aren't thinking big enough. This is the future, and the Army has a chance to adopt a true next-generation firearm.

[negah 26]

Reminds me on:

Time to bring those heretics... ahm criminals to justice.

[Degman 73]

You people aren't thinking big enough. This is the future, and the Army has a chance to adopt a true next-generation firearm.

Weight ?

[Tonci87 163]

Cost?

[roberthammer 582]

Infact that pistol is a glock with an attachment like the RONI attachment

Everyone knows that in the future they will use big ass pistol with 10mm rounds :p

Edited December 5, 2014 by RobertHammer

[krycek 349]

If they still want to go with Beretta they should give a call to Robocop.

[eddo36 16]

If they need that much stopping power for a handgun, they'd just use a rifle. Regular US infantry troops don't carry sidearms. Why have a sidearm when you can have a rifle? Handguns aren't supposed to do a rifle's job.

[lesscubes 1]

RE: Why not use old stock M1911's? The Marines pretty much used them up for the (MEU)SOC pistol program, that's why they bought the M45's from Colt. They shoot so much that they were destroying those 60-70 year old frames pretty quick.

Big problem with re-introducing the 1911 is that it's a hand-fit gun. Shoot out a barrel or brake a part in the trigger group and someone needs to carefully file-fit a new one.

On a poly pistol or something like a SIG, the parts just drop in, no fitting.

If they need that much stopping power for a handgun, they'd just use a rifle. Regular US infantry troops don't carry sidearms. Why have a sidearm when you can have a rifle? Handguns aren't supposed to do a rifle's job.

Handguns never replace a rifle, but aren't a bad thing to have in addition to one.

[warlord554 2065]

Pistols do play a vital role in combat operations. But should never "replace" your primary weapons system. Come very handy in caves, confined spaces like small tunnels. And are very handy on gun truck turrets when sometimes you cant get the turret around fast enough on close targets

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

Its pretty simple,they already have some great handguns to use, but if they really looking, this one is a good choise - FN 57-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Five-seven

FN Site:http://www.fnherstal.com/primary-menu/products-capabilities/handguns.html there we see also the MK HP III

not that i am a bit bias but belgian FN weapons kick ass and if they really need something else next to the countless amazing guns they already have and use,we can still use the money(btw only cash/gold plz) ;)

btw the FN 57 mk2 have 20rounds of 5.7x28mm while the HP mkIII uses 9x19mm nato.

[chortles 263]

Yea , most logical and less expensive option would be to upgrade M9s to M9A1 and upgrade the old M1911s too - like the US Marine Corps did

This is possibly the third would-be sidearm replacement contract I've heard of... maybe this one will finally not fall through like the other two did.

[lesscubes 1]

Its pretty simple,they already have some great handguns to use, but if they really looking, this one is a good choise - FN 57-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Five-seven

FN Site:http://www.fnherstal.com/primary-menu/products-capabilities/handguns.html there we see also the MK HP III

not that i am a bit bias but belgian FN weapons kick ass and if they really need something else next to the countless amazing guns they already have and use,we can still use the money(btw only cash/gold plz) ;)

btw the FN 57 mk2 have 20rounds of 5.7x28mm while the HP mkIII uses 9x19mm nato.

If the M1911 isn't the greatest service pistol of all time, the FN/Browning Hi-Power is. I have one, it's magnificent... Of course, like the M1911 it's also a gun built by hand, with many hand fit parts.

The Five-Seven though? Meh, Gimmick round.

I'm still dubious about spending money to replace the M9, it's not a gun I'd choose to buy for myself, but it works. At least when you don't cheap out on magazines. (Just like any other autoloader.)

[SpookyGunship 10]

If the M1911 isn't the greatest service pistol of all time, the FN/Browning Hi-Power is. I have one, it's magnificent... Of course, like the M1911 it's also a gun built by hand, with many hand fit parts.

You know what they say about 1911 users. They wear jeans, they are over 35, they think America was better during the mid 60's and they marry hairdressers.

I'am myself a 1911 User for just a few practical reasons. Sub sonic Ammo, good punch, simple mechanics, no plastic, single row magazines and so on. But i'am a civilian, and in my situation you don't need more than 7+1 rounds to save yourself. If you need more than that, even a double row 20 round mag. wouldn't save you. And thats most often the case with pistols anyway.

The british army kicks all their Sig Sauers out to replace them and the market is flooded at the moment with them. Man, what a shity gun. Soldiers just should be allowed again to buy their own damn sidearms.

[roberthammer 582]

This is possibly the third would-be sidearm replacement contract I've heard of... maybe this one will finally not fall through like the other two did.

Yeah true , also dont foget that in the last competition the FNP45 was so close to win before they scrapped the program

it would be kinda interesting to see US army using the FNP45 Tactical like in A3 , it is a really good tactical pistol and also it has 15 round magazines in .45acp /irony that in A3 uses 11 round magazines/

btw MHS program overview - http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/12/05/modular-handgun-program-overview/

+ here's some interesting info about the M45 1911 - http://stevereicherttraining.com/marsoc-m45-cqbp/

Edited December 6, 2014 by RobertHammer