U.S. Army is seeking new handgun

[roberthammer 582]

Yea , the army will most likely keep the 9mm for now and will expand it more like the russians did

Regarding the pistol - with an army logic , cheaper is better then it will be SW vs Glock if we dont count Beretta's sudden twist or something :D

[warlord554 2065]

FBI stats shows gunfights to usually be within 10 feet though.

yea thats in the civilian world though. Most happen at night also.

But little difference for military use, usually close quarters, huts, caves, houses, etc. Also great to have when on a gun turret and someone pops out too quick

[krzychuzokecia 719]

For our gun freaks: Beretta did it! They've anounced a full-size striker fired pistol*, and intend to pursue MHS with it. New gun have sexy name of "APX" (because, you know, people like acronyms) and looks even uglier than Arsenal Strike One. One wonders what happened to legendary Italian school of design?

Read here:

The Firearm Blog

All 4 Shooters (in Italian)

*On the contrary of what TFB wrote, they've already made a polymer striker firer - a pocket Nano.

[roberthammer 582]

Looks interesting , yes it does look ugly - if it's cheap then maybe it will be good enough for the US army heh

some guy said that it has a modular fire control group and this particular variant doesn't have a manual safety which i guess they will do a special variant for the MHS

Edited February 24, 2015 by RobertHammer

[krzychuzokecia 719]

some guy said that it has a modular fire control group

That'd be very likely as SIG P320 modular design actually borrows from... Beretta Nano.

[kireta21 13]

9mm will stay. It may be obsolete for military use, due to widespread use of body armor, but adoption of new cardidge is simply impossible with current NATO procedures, where all members have to agree.

While 5.7mm FN was considered successor, and passed tests with flying colors, Germany made it clear they will reject it adoption as NATO standard due to them having their own modern PDW cardidge, 4.6x30.

[krzychuzokecia 719]

@Boota:

Big words. I wouldn't say that 9x19mm Luger is obsolete. It's actually the best all-rounder here.

The problem with small-caliber pistol rounds like 5.7 and 4.6 was that apart from armor-piercing (in which both rounds were great), these rounds were horribly unefficient. It's not a secret that fast and small bullets tend to just fly-through the tissue without doing significant damage. Remember when US Army found that AP 5.56 can't stop under-armored militants driven by adrenaline and (probably) drugs?

On the other hand going bigger makes bullet even worse at armor piercing (that was the problem with .45 ACP back when US Army adopted 9mm and Beretta), unless you're going to make a big-ass case with enormous amounts of gun powder (like it's done in revolver Magnums). But such a big cartridge introduces problems with designing a semi-automatic pistol that normal human could handle (Desert Eagles and AutoMags are for Schwarzenegger only). .45 ACP still had it's niche though: due to it's low velocity it is very easy to suppress, and that's why it was selected as a cartridge for OHWS Mk 23 Mod 0.

Russians already decided that 9mm is the way to go in hand gun calibers, but they're introducing new types of cartridges to make it more effective agains body armors. First it was 7N21, then 7N31 and lastly 9x21mm which seems to be their hand gun cartridge of the future when thay announced Yarygin variant using it.

[kireta21 13]

The problem with small-caliber pistol rounds like 5.7 and 4.6 was that apart from armor-piercing (in which both rounds were great), these rounds were horribly unefficient. It's not a secret that fast and small bullets tend to just fly-through the tissue without doing significant damage. Remember when US Army found that AP 5.56 can't stop under-armored militants driven by adrenaline and (probably) drugs?

"Drugged up targets" is a horrible example, as these are known to get up even after beign hit by 12ga slug and .40 S&W +P

Also 5.7mm pistol was used during Fort Hood shooting (V-Max FMJ rounds were supposely used), and proved to be VERY effective aganist soft targets, with almost every hit in chest beign lethal. Interestingly shotter went down after taking 5 hits from 9mm.

That's of course ignoring obvious - militaries don't gear up to fight militians in third-world countires, but to fight similary equipped enemy.

[lesscubes 1]

I really don't get the whole caliber debate. The difference between 9mm-.40S&W-.45ACP isn't the same huge gap as between something like .32ACP (7.65 Browning to you Europeans) .380 or 9x18 Makarov. Either way, still a handgun, it's never going to be the hammer of the gods.

Some thoughts;

-V-Max is a varmint bullet, the tip is polymer and is designed to fragment the jacket and core upon impact. Basically it's designed to turn poor Prairie Dogs into a pink mist. So, horrific, shallow wounds. Poor penetration.

-9mm does actually suppress better than .45ACP, if you use a subsonic load like a heavy 147 Grain bullet. Think exhaust system on a car or bike- All other things the same, a 2" Exhaust is quieter than a 3" exhaust.

-M855 is known to fragment fairly reliably from carbine barrels, so perhaps the amphetamine-like Khat the Somali militiamen were hopped up on played more than the bullets themselves.

-That new striker fired Beretta is the least Italian looking weapon ever. I mean, it looks more like a Hi-Point, even the first gen USP is sexier.

-There are so many awesome service handguns out there that it's going to be a heartbreak when they adopt the wrong one or stick with the M9.

-(Which should've been the SIG P226 in the first place.)