Legal violations by A3L: Arma 3 life

[eggbeast 3684]

couple of points to add to the morning's discussion:

1. A3L DID rip BIS IPR and we have proved it. They still host this content.

2. A3L DID rip pirated content from other games and sell them and we have proved it. They still host this content.

3. A3L DID make between $20,000 and $50,000, which we can only estimate but basing it on 2,700 donations of $5+ over 100 days, and some players donating MORE THAN $500, it's also 90% proven. The sale of their expedited service, and their pirated content for donors would be deemed a clear commercial transaction in any court. They still charge for access, despite admitting they have 14 months' server costs in the bank with costs of approx. $2,500 per month).

4. A3L DID rip Tonics code, then abused him about it, then admitted it, and ONE member of their team got banned here, which is just awful - should have been the rest of the team - Zoo, Zannazza, Mike Baxter, etc. They still use this code.

5. A3L DID take materials from RobertHammer, Milkman, CSE Team and many others without permission, without attribution, commercially exploited, redistributed, restricted (on the day of joining the mod) to donors, and in many cases removing their own licenses and modified and re-signed without permission - which is rock-solid grounds for a termination of the author's license to use the material. Those authors requested removal, i.e terminated their license, and A3L still host it.

6. A3L also has other mods in their sights like RHS. As a result, a lot of mod-makers, working with AMAR are looking at ways to further prevent this kind of destructive, improper and illegal use of their copyrighted work.

People worry about witch-hunts and not appearing to be too harsh or restrictive. Many server hosts use mods in a range of ways, and may inadvertently stray outside the lines of the strict rules from time to time. Well if someone had done one or two of these things, it could be repaired by contacting the author and then following their wishes. This would not require a forum ban etc, if they were contrite and sought to remedy the situation amicably and politely.

In this case, A3L team has abused the authors in public, vilified them repeatedly, and made a few changes to their site, while admitting nothing, and saying that there is an unfair crusade against them. They continue to charge people to access stolen materials, in breach of BIS and author's licenses. Clearly it is way past time for measures to be taken.

Edited November 19, 2014 by eggbeast

[tacticaldrunk 19]

IF BIS where to take action against A3L for asking for donations are then obliged to take action against any other clan or addonmaker with a donationbutton on their website? In a legal sense I mean.

ehhh, not really. the donation system works well. most life servers have a good donation setup... when i had my server anyone that donated to us got added to the donor list and we had a shop for donators and in that shop was the same items everyone else could buy for IN GAME money not RW money but the donator shop had those items at a discount... also we had a donator garage where you could get you car fixed for free and everyone else had to pay 200$ in-game money.. BUT in A3L's case you can see that this donation system is/was being used to simply get into the server.

[twisted 128]

just read about all this. what A3L is doing sets a very bad precendent - especially if BIS don't step in. Mods and addons are the life blood of arma3. With such a high level of due diligence in proving A3L's bad intentions and repeated ripping off of people's work I hope BIS acts to shut them down in someway or other.

[kiory 405]

ehhh, not really. the donation system works well. most life servers have a good donation setup... when i had my server anyone that donated to us got added to the donor list and we had a shop for donators and in that shop was the same items everyone else could buy for IN GAME money not RW money but the donator shop had those items at a discount... also we had a donator garage where you could get you car fixed for free and everyone else had to pay 200$ in-game money.. BUT in A3L's case you can see that this donation system is/was being used to simply get into the server.

What you guys did was still very naughty and you deserve a slap.

Donations are not donations if something is given in exchange, regardless of whether you can buy it with ingame money or RW money, I do hope you have learned from your mistakes however.

[amatt 10]

ehhh, not really. the donation system works well. most life servers have a good donation setup... when i had my server anyone that donated to us got added to the donor list and we had a shop for donators and in that shop was the same items everyone else could buy for IN GAME money not RW money but the donator shop had those items at a discount... also we had a donator garage where you could get you car fixed for free and everyone else had to pay 200$ in-game money.. BUT in A3L's case you can see that this donation system is/was being used to simply get into the server.

The donation system that came with Tonic's Altis Life RPG (as far as I'm aware has now been taken out) was breaking Bohemia's EULA.

Almost every server that used Tonics mission was using the donation system, and I don't see any malice in it; however, as stated above, it was still in breach of the EULA.

Server owners may argue that it's 'just a thank-you' to those who donated; however technically I think it can be seen as paying to receive something.

[Lonnonzzombies 1]

You realize schultzit replied to this thread and you all ignored him? :p

[StevenW129 10]

You realize schultzit replied to this thread and you all ignored him? :p

Indeed he did. Don't really have a response though - http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?184772-Legal-violations-by-A3L-Arma-3-life&p=2815475#post2815475

[MOMOtoko 10]

sorry forget

Edited November 19, 2014 by MOMOtoko

[StevenW129 10]

Hi guys,

What's about the mod a3L ? Can we use it ?

Or more precisely, can we use the map ?

Wrong thread.

[takus 10]

Hey eggbeast,

4. A3L DID rip Tonics code, then abused him about it, then admitted it, and ONE member of their team got banned here, which is just awful - should have been the rest of the team - Zoo, Zannazza, Mike Baxter, etc. They still use this code.

The member that was banned here, was not just any member. Member (Caiden) is actually the owner of A3L. His outrageous and extremely rude behavior that led to his eventual ban is a clear indication of there overall business format.

I understand Caiden, because from his previous posts he simply doesn't care and probably gets enjoyment from stealing work without consequences and all the while profiting. Which I don't understand is his support team, Mike Baxter and the rest all seem to have a level head, why don't they resign. Don't any of them even have the most basic of morals?

They've formed a group that anyone involved, cannot be outspokenly proud to be a part of.

[tortuosit 486]

I am realistic and of course there always will be people making money and they fully, or more, more or less or don't deserve it. Money and resulting bullshit is where the quantitative success is, and success is on the *Life side.

To me only one thing is clear. Please BIS keep all this Life shite out of these forums just like it isn't/wasn't allowed to even mention the ArmA 2.5 engine based zombie survival game!

[eggbeast 3684]

http://arma3-life.com/forums/index.php?/topic/35121-a3l-intellectual-property-statement/

Our Donator System, which was in violation with Bohemia, was requested by Bohemia to be removed. We have complied with their request. Our current offering of paying $30.00 to expedite a civilian application has been approved by Bohemia and is within the EULA as were not offering any perks or ingame items but a fast track to establishing teamspeak tags and forum access to our community. We have gone a step further, and have lowered this to a minimum of $10.00 to expedite application access.

simple definition of commercial used by all revenue and tax authorities the world over, and backed up in courts of law:

(my wording for brevity)

provision of goods, service or reward for compensation in form of a monetary fee, or reciprocal goods, service or reward.

A3 Life has put in an application process to get to their mod and they pay their staff in in-game credit.

But they charge the public real dollars for the expedition service.

That is deliberate monetizing of the content to generate income by restricting access to the content and imposing a fee (no matter how much).

Now if they released their mission/mod to the public so the public could host their own i wouldn't have such a massive problem with it.

But given they have accumulated $30k+ already in surpluses and they are seeking more income, I do.

So other people do it and no-one complains eh? well on the scale of income they have raised, everyone is complaining...

and anyone supporting the mod like certain map-making chaps who PM'd me recently saying they are innocent, well, you are making it all possible, and so long as you support A3L you shall bear a mark of shame for ever more in this community.

Edited November 20, 2014 by eggbeast

[amatt 10]

Hey eggbeast,

The member that was banned here, was not just any member. Member (Caiden) is actually the owner of A3L. His outrageous and extremely rude behavior that led to his eventual ban is a clear indication of there overall business format.

I understand Caiden, because from his previous posts he simply doesn't care and probably gets enjoyment from stealing work without consequences and all the while profiting. Which I don't understand is his support team, Mike Baxter and the rest all seem to have a level head, why don't they resign. Don't any of them even have the most basic of morals?

They've formed a group that anyone involved, cannot be outspokenly proud to be a part of.

I asked Mike Baxter this a few weeks ago; his response was something along the lines of 'the mod has potential and he is going to work to remove the stolen content.'

This week I asked him why still no accreditation has been provided, or the mods removed, and more importantly why he is still there. Unfortunately no response has been provided.

Apologies for brevity and spelling, sent from my phone.

[A.Cyprus 16]

Mr Baxter often seems to post when it suits him or when he sees opportunity to paint their actions in lighter shades, promising mitigation and supporting a more compliant future.

But when pressed with specific and relevant questions on immediate situation he often seems to quickly become evasive and vague, usually ending in a very convenient "I won't comment on this topic further" style conclusion.

I read all this as him being better spoken than other members like Caiden but ultimately I do not feel he truly wishes to right the wrongs.

[Foxtrop1 10]

they should remove the content from their server until they can MAKE new no stolen content, but having their servers working with stolen content while asking for donations is just inmoral(dont know if ilegal but seem likely), users dont see that stolen content as placeholder but as part of the mod and they pay like it

[amatt 10]

Mr Baxter often seems to post when it suits him or when he sees opportunity to paint their actions in lighter shades, promising mitigation and supporting a more compliant future.

But when pressed with specific and relevant questions on immediate situation he often seems to quickly become evasive and vague, usually ending in a very convenient "I won't comment on this topic further" style conclusion.

I read all this as him being better spoken than other members like Caiden but ultimately I do not feel he truly wishes to right the wrongs.

My views entirely. He never seems to comment or respond to issues raised, rather, just try to redirect the blame/controversy to other communities.

The fact he is still part of the A3L team suggests he views the situation in the same way as other members of their community such as Caiden.

I don't think his word is to be trusted the next time he tries to act as a mediator.

[mbaxter 10]

My views entirely. He never seems to comment or respond to issues raised, rather, just try to redirect the blame/controversy to other communities.

The fact he is still part of the A3L team suggests he views the situation in the same way as other members of their community such as Caiden.

I don't think his word is to be trusted the next time he tries to act as a mediator.

AMatt,

Thanks for your comment and instead of playing forum wars I am more simply going to show through mine/our actions that were working towards reverting the issues I have mentioned we will be fixing. You can sit and post all you want but at the end of the day, you have your view and I have mine. I feel as if I can instead of quitting the project but fix the issue and ultimately save a little face as A3L does have a large community to continue building for and I've made many friends here that I will continue to strive for and provide content for them by utilizing the correct means of obtaining items, mods and etc the correct way than previous methods used.

So until Matt or another member of Bohemia says were in violation of their EULA then I need to not worry about commenting. As for the mods that we are using, they are almost ready to be removed except for Tonic's Altis Life which is more pushing towards end December on the new framework.

- Mike

[six_ten 208]

The way you fix the issues and act honorably is to remove the stolen content immediately, right now, today. This "working toward" nonsense that you guys keep repeating is offensive.

[mbaxter 10]

The way you fix the issues and act honorably is to remove the stolen content immediately, right now, today. This "working toward" nonsense that you guys keep repeating is offensive.

Yes and if I had fully control over things I would be doing that so thanks for the lecture of how to do things right.

[sequisha 13]

...utilizing the correct means of obtaining items, mods and etc the correct way than previous methods used.

- Mike

I suggest getting an artist on the team capable of creating the items you guys need. This chatter of correctly "obtaining items" translates to "where can I find assets that I can't get in trouble for" in my eyes.

Anyone can go shopping on Armaholic and hodge-podge together an amalgamation of other people's work; that doesn't mean that it's legal or ethical.

[amatt 10]

AMatt,

Thanks for your comment and instead of playing forum wars I am more simply going to show through mine/our actions that were working towards reverting the issues I have mentioned we will be fixing. You can sit and post all you want but at the end of the day, you have your view and I have mine. I feel as if I can instead of quitting the project but fix the issue and ultimately save a little face as A3L does have a large community to continue building for and I've made many friends here that I will continue to strive for and provide content for them by utilizing the correct means of obtaining items, mods and etc the correct way than previous methods used.

So until Matt or another member of Bohemia says were in violation of their EULA then I need to not worry about commenting. As for the mods that we are using, they are almost ready to be removed except for Tonic's Altis Life which is more pushing towards end December on the new framework.

- Mike

Mike,

Thanks for the quick response. I understand you are under no obligation to comment on these forums, however as a gesture of good-will I'd like to see the ArmA3Life team responding more often to issues raised here. Appreciate that I'm not playing 'forum wars', however it is frustrating that getting a response from the ArmA3Life team is more difficult than it should be.

I'd appreciate it if you could share your response to my original comment directed towards yourself

I wrote to you over a week ago and you gave me the following response:

Originally Posted by mbaxter

AMatt,

I don't condone utilizing framework from Tonic if he doesn't want to give them permission to use it. But that is not my call to make or force them to switch. Stealing content from creators other than Tonic I don't see that A3L has done other than speculation of being a commercial entity and using publicly released modpacks which by their licenses were able to use. Now they should be credited and that will be fixed or atleast recommended to do from my end. There has never been the intention to be disrespectful to this community but all I've seen in prior posts is wild accusations and personal attacks and of course someone young as Caiden is going to act the way he did in his responses.

Now the reason I do stay in A3L is for the sole fact that there is quite a lot of potential to be a great mod for not only our community but others should that day come to release the mod information publicly rather than select individuals hacking into the server and post their own communities. I feel that I can try and reason with the team and put them on a track to be totally compliant and be over this huge debate of stealing and etc. The true intention was to never stay on Tonic's version for ever but to design while we continue working with Steaker that never left may I add finish his framework. That is the goal I am trying to reach and why I am taking the time out of my life to act as a mediator of this whole situation.

The legality of the issue is not something I wish to discuss at this point, as I don't know enough about licensing and other methods of securing work; rather, I'd like to concentrate on the ethical concerns raised.

It has now been over a week, and correct me if I'm wrong, but an update has been pushed to your servers containing new features; however still no accreditation has been provided to any of the original addon creators for which your server uses.

Either you're not pushing for any accreditation to be given, or the Project Leads do not value your suggestions enough to heed the advice; in which case I'm really struggling to provide reasons why you would continue to back this project.

Understand that this is not a personal attack, however I don't see how you can expect to have any credibility after the many claims you have given to be making a difference, and yet we see none, only to see you still act in defence.

Thanks in advance.

[mbaxter 10]

AMatt,

I am being told that the Robert Hammer pack and other addons will be removed tomorrow sometime when they do updates.

[StevenW129 10]

AMatt,

I am being told that the Robert Hammer pack and other addons will be removed tomorrow sometime when they do updates.

Removed? Or simply renamed like a certain car was from CL3.

[A.Cyprus 16]

Mr Baxter

Will your team be giving any proof said content has been properly and fully removed?

[mbaxter 10]

Removed? Or simply renamed like a certain car was from CL3.

StevenW129,

I'm sure the moderators told individuals to stop making false statements unless you have proof. But I appreciate the forum bump to help keep the community updated that we are making an attempt to correct our wrong doing and requests to remove individuals mods from our community.

---------- Post added at 14:04 ---------- Previous post was at 14:02 ----------

Mr Baxter

Will your team be giving any proof said content has been properly and fully removed?

A. Cyprus,

Sure be more than glad to show you that the mods have been removed. Regarding the weapons, we imported our replacement weapons from Arma 2 and not using anyone else's weapon packs.