Legal violations by A3L: Arma 3 life

[nodunit 397]

But you can technically consider A3L private as it's a closed community that requires you to 'apply' for access (and allegedly pay for)

Hmm, going to need some time to think on that one to try and cover any loopholes, its going to wind that downloading an addon is going to be akin to signing a bloody license agreement when you install software, heck we may even have to move to .exe's or something to force the agreement to pop up prior to install to ensure that there is no "Well I didn't see it"./

Question about this idea of cbo, how does the file being encrypted stop them from implimenting it into the mod exactly, wouldn't the game still read it as per norm or?

I'm certainly not against the idea of more discussion between modders and up-and-comers, heck you learn a lot faster through word of mouth and when you have someone there to help you understand why something works the way it does or give pointers when it doesn't. Not to mention it encourages growth and with any luck a generally more friendly atmosphere.

Edited November 17, 2014 by NodUnit

[bad benson 1733]

if these guys would respect the people who made the work they use as much as the work itself, since they seem to really want to use it (flattering if you think about it), they wouldn't have ignored complaints in the first place. the real issue in my eyes is making at least roughly 50 000 bucks, from what i heard, from the stuff. it doesn't matter if they changed the shady wording on their sites to more vague stuff to be in the clear legally. they already cashed in.

but since legal action by BI is not really an option since they are not the damaged party (or legal action would cost more than what A3L made so far), what i personally would like to see as a move from them would be at least a small acknowledgement in a sitrep or somewhere that they don't agree with what happened.

just taking a stance would already show content creators that at least they give a shit at all. i mean in the light of the recent contest and the whole PR talk about mods being a big part of the game it would only make sense to at least encourage respect among people and condemn behavior like that.

and maybe an update of the license that has a better definition of commercial use. life mods have been using ported stuff since forever and no one gave a shit. the problem here is that they aren't taking from other games (that is the issue of the devs of those games) but from who they should consider as their peers in this community, close to home as someone put it.

kind of ironic if you think about how most life communites are based on strict rules and the selection of the "right" people...

[fluttershy 2]

There is a couple of problems that are shown very clearly with this case.

First of are the "Developers" that do not care for the work the community, or rather the original content creators put in to come up with the content they are using freely. Including the fact that they talk about permissions without ever having recived any, nore accepting or reacting to the creators that are simply asking them to remove there content.

Secondly you have the completly disconnected community of players supporting such project that are somewhat obliviouse about the base community inside this forum. Because otherwise the players them self would make a fuss about what is going on. So they either do not know about this or simply do not care for the requests the addon creators posted. They even support there closed community with "Donations" that only signals the "Developers" to continue what there doing, becaues obviousely people like what they are getting and would like to continue as is or even improve upon the current state.

Then you have BI that has kept somewhat quiet about this, not meaning they are uninteristed, but not showing at least moral support by condeming the conduct of operations by these individuals. Having an "important part of the game" exploited to this level should at least result in a supporting statement. It does not matter if you, as a developement team of the original title, are okay with what is going on or not, if you don't comment on it in any way, people get the idea that what they are doing is completly fine with you.

Hence they will continue to do as they please.

The "borrowing" of content by shady individuals that do not credit the creator and even go beyond that by sometimes calling the content there own creation has been there for a long long time, but seeing how far it has escalated until this point where people fake statements by creators and openly ignore there requests shows that there is something very wrong going on. And until something is done from the official sides, this will keep happening, this behavioure will keep beeing supported by the blind or indifferent players that only see there personal fun and could not care less about the creators themself. Which could, ultimatly, lead to less content created and published openly as well as whole teams moving to different plattforms that have a higher resepcting player base or at least a more active publisher that is protecting there few and preciouse hobby developers that enhance there game and therefor drasticly increase the lifespan of a title.

[tacticaldrunk 19]

so, after following this thread for a few days i have gathered this much.

It appears that they have broken little to no rules because BI's rules are and the licenses are very vague.

They stole from a community that helps promote a game that in itself is very watered down (Google VBS3 VS ARMA3 you will cry) actually if not for people like tonic and other content creators A3 wouldn't really have a multi-player side of things.

After they stole, the profited GREATLY. with the help of stolen mods. the made thousands. <---Clear enough?

BI's stance is kinda non existent in my opinion...

So i have to ask, WHAT is gonna stop other people from doing the same thing?

When will enough be enough?

honestly it seems like the door was just opened for any team of Dirtnecks that want to compile others work (with or without) permission and charge people to play THE NEW AND AMAZING game mode with the subtle title of (EXPRESS application lane, or reserved slot seat in our ride to hell) or whatever phony name they can concoct at the time.

Here is my full and uncut opinion, BI dont turn your back on people that spend HOURS, WEEKS, MONTHS in front of a screen making something that Improves your game.

Grow a spine and smash these clowns.

Punish them so severely that they never walk right again (not really but, you know).

Set an example, make a clear statement that theft of others work and these so called (donations for services) will not be tolerated.

I hope to rattle some cages with this statement and for good reason.

BI stand up for those that have supported your game through thick and thin, you have a great community with ALOT of talent and this may be just the straw that breaks the camels back in terms of people cutting back on great content only for the reason of it being stolen and profited on and you do NOTHING about it.

[Fanskapi 10]

The irony is that all these poor fellows actually "donating" to play a game they have already bought don't actually seem to mind.

But then proceeds to whine how Helicopter DLC is too expensive. (I do actually agree with that, but i don't donate on life servers atleast.)

[enti 0]

BIS i would like to know why the "HELL" this arma3 Life BS is still up and running charging people to play and getting away with it! Im sure me and the rest of the guys n gals would LIKE SOME ANSWERS!!! shut them down already for ripping off others peoples works.

[eggbeast 3673]

1,635 signatures on the petition agree with you Enti

[StevenW129 10]

It seems like this is not going to go anywhere anymore. It's a real shame that BIS has not acted faster to make an example of A3L. Very very disappointing.

[enti 0]

It seems like this is not going to go anywhere anymore. It's a real shame that BIS has not acted faster to make an example of A3L. Very very disappointing.

If i was BIS i would send the suits round to SERVE! them and also notify the hosting company of A3L's violations, and keep pursuing them!.

[StevenW129 10]

If i was BIS i would send the suits round to SERVE! them and also notify the hosting company of A3L's violations, and keep pursuing them!.

That would be the logical thing to do. The things we have evidenced them doing is indisputable. We will just have to wait and see if anything is done.

[nodunit 397]

Whatever the next step is, it's not likely to be a public affair for some time.

[havatan19 10]

what is very sad, that alot of players dont even care. i talk about those who watching youtube videos about arma 3 life, then seeing the video like from psisyndicate where he talks about the legal violations, then some watchers think "i dont care" and then start to donate and playing arma 3 life. also what is sad, that psisyndicate who are aware of this problem, still play this mod and still uploading videos of it.

i wrote under some german lets plays that they should stop playing it or atleast stop promoting the mod, then i got answers like "and ? nobody cares" etc.. very sad.

also, its sad that they still get alot of donators: http://arma3-life.com/forums/index.php?/donate/

[enti 0]

This "TWOK" Taking With-out consent" of peoples works is soo wrong on soo many levels, Should be instant shut down of their server/website for TWOKING!!! "its a british police word for taking a vehicle without consent of the owner"

"IE the hard work of add-on makers!! Such as vehicles, weapons, skins, aircraft, boats, in game systems such as the healing mod etc.!

Edited November 18, 2014 by ENTI

[amatt 10]

what is very sad, that alot of players dont even care. i talk about those who watching youtube videos about arma 3 life, then seeing the video like from psisyndicate where he talks about the legal violations, then some watchers think "i dont care" and then start to donate and playing arma 3 life. also what is sad, that psisyndicate who are aware of this problem, still play this mod and still uploading videos of it.

i wrote under some german lets plays that they should stop playing it or atleast stop promoting the mod, then i got answers like "and ? nobody cares" etc.. very sad.

also, its sad that they still get alot of donators: http://arma3-life.com/forums/index.php?/donate/

Many people play ArmA purely to have fun, not to become part of, and help sustain the community. They probably don't see themselves as supporting A3L, instead just providing entertainment for themselves.

There is frustration to be found in the number of people who still play the mod despite being made aware of the issue, however, you cant expect everyone to care.

I do question PSISyndicate however who has stated on several occasions that he disagrees with the actions of the ArmA3Life team; one does not involve themselves in something they disagree with.

[McGyver-NL- 10]

Hello, this was me and I would like to update you on this.

You are correct about the forum signup. I was a member there and when I streamed caiden was watching and I had criticised there mod one thing lead to another and he banned me on the forums, so he did and I thought nothing of it.

Later on I started to receive emails, phone calls I even got a pizza which I paid for because I was pretty hungry to be honest so thanks guys.

I informed the police of his behaviour and are investigating as he has breached copyright laws by sharing my information on his forums that even has a privacy terms in the footer.

How can I prove it's me? well. I'm in the picture... xD

CAIDEN is dutch so he is a EU-citizen!

[rksl-rock 1300]

but since legal action by BI is not really an option since they are not the damaged party (or legal action would cost more than what A3L made so far)...

See this is what i dont get. I was talking about this with one of the IP lawyers from work. He said what A3L has done clearly, legally and morally violates the EULA BIS issue with the games. Its his opinion by the way that a mandatory or other wise fixed "donation" (which A3L previously had) to gain access to "otherwise inaccessible benefits" is the definition of commercialization so breaks the wording of the EULA (in his opinion). But BIS contacted them (after considerable revenue was raised) and told them to stop demanding donations for access. They stopped publically demanding a donation for access. However, from people that joined the community over the last few weeks we've all heard that if you donate enough you get instant-ish access. If you dont... well.

Even changing the donation amount but still seeking a donation in exchange for a benefit is a commercial enterprise in UK & EU law at least. So still a violation of the contract.

Why dont they take action? Well it does cost but what could they get back? For a company with BIS's income relatively not an awful lot. $50,000 is nothing to them. But $50k to the rest of us thats more than most here make in a year.

And A3L's statement that they will eventually replace content they have, ill be generous "misappropriated" - while not BIS' concern - its still illegal given that the content all seems to have "no commercial exploitation" clauses in their respective readme and EULAS. Most independant addon makers cannot afford to take legal action past a cease and desist order. And a DMCA take down request to hosters.

So would the addon-making part of the community like to have BIS' cooperation and support in this? Yes we would. It sets a bad precedent and leaves a sour taste in our mouths.

I am dissappointed by BIS stance. I understand it. I dont agree with it from a moral standpoint but the precedent it now sets gives me serious pause.

[enti 0]

See this is what i dont get. I was talking about this with one of the IP lawyers from work. He said what A3L has done clearly, legally and morally violates the EULA BIS issue with the games. Its his opinion by the way that a mandatory or other wise fixed "donation" (which A3L previously had) to gain access to "otherwise inaccessible benefits" is the definition of commercialization so breaks the wording of the EULA (in his opinion). But BIS contacted them (after considerable revenue was raised) and told them to stop demanding donations for access. They stopped publically demanding a donation for access. However, from people that joined the community over the last few weeks we've all heard that if you donate enough you get instant-ish access. If you dont... well.

Even changing the donation amount but still seeking a donation in exchange for a benefit is a commercial enterprise in UK & EU law at least. So still a violation of the contract.

Why dont they take action? Well it does cost but what could they get back? For a company with BIS's income relatively not an awful lot. $50,000 is nothing to them. But $50k to the rest of us thats more than most here make in a year.

And A3L's statement that they will eventually replace content they have, ill be generous "misappropriated" - while not BIS' concern - its still illegal given that the content all seems to have "no commercial exploitation" clauses in their respective readme and EULAS. Most independant addon makers cannot afford to take legal action past a cease and desist order. And a DMCA take down request to hosters.

So would the addon-making part of the community like to have BIS' cooperation and support in this? Yes we would. It sets a bad precedent and leaves a sour taste in our mouths.

I am dissappointed by BIS stance. I understand it. I dont agree with it from a moral standpoint but the precedent it now sets gives me serious pause.

+10 Rock totally agree. Something needs to be done by BIS 50k is pocket money to them.

[amatt 10]

I honestly don't think that legal action is the best way forward, nor encrypting PBOs.

Instead, I'd like to see some kind of body formed that moderates the addon & server hosting community, ensuring that all creators are in-line with set rules (such as 'Don't steal others work'). If creators fail to meet these agreements then sanctions are put in place. For me, this seems like a more sustainable system, rather than taking legal action every time someone breaks Bohemia's EULA & ToS or starts exercising unethical policies.

Edited November 18, 2014 by AMatt

[rksl-rock 1300]

I honestly don't think that legal action is the best way forward, nor encrypting PBOs.

Ive previously said I do not want encryption*. I want better community education and support from both BIS and the community. Marek made a good post about Licenses a while back. But it was lacking context for a lot of people. They didn't know why it was made. The rest were in denial about the real reason behind it.

Instead, I'd like to see some kind of body formed that moderates the addon & server hosting community, ensuring that all creators are in-line with set rules (such as 'Don't steal others work'). If creators fail to meet these agreements then sanctions are put in place. For me, this seems like a more sustainable system, rather than taking legal action every time someone breaks Bohemia's EULA & ToS or starts exercising unethical policies.

Without a real penalty or legal basis you have no hope in hell of enforcing anything.

AMAR exist because enough people are concerned about their work to join together. But all they (we) can do is make enough noise that the rest of the community is aware or hope and dream that BIS take interest and pity on us and help.

* But I can see why people want it. I wouldnt mind it but within days people will release tools tohack the addons just like they did for A2 DLCs and other.

Edited November 19, 2014 by RKSL-Rock
added a clarification

[marker 1]

See this is what i dont get. I was talking about this with one of the IP lawyers from work. He said what A3L has done clearly, legally and morally violates the EULA BIS issue with the games. Its his opinion by the way that a mandatory or other wise fixed "donation" (which A3L previously had) to gain access to "otherwise inaccessible benefits" is the definition of commercialization so breaks the wording of the EULA (in his opinion). But BIS contacted them (after considerable revenue was raised) and told them to stop demanding donations for access. They stopped publically demanding a donation for access. However, from people that joined the community over the last few weeks we've all heard that if you donate enough you get instant-ish access. If you dont... well.

Even changing the donation amount but still seeking a donation in exchange for a benefit is a commercial enterprise in UK & EU law at least. So still a violation of the contract.

Why dont they take action? Well it does cost but what could they get back? For a company with BIS's income relatively not an awful lot. $50,000 is nothing to them. But $50k to the rest of us thats more than most here make in a year.

And A3L's statement that they will eventually replace content they have, ill be generous "misappropriated" - while not BIS' concern - its still illegal given that the content all seems to have "no commercial exploitation" clauses in their respective readme and EULAS. Most independant addon makers cannot afford to take legal action past a cease and desist order. And a DMCA take down request to hosters.

So would the addon-making part of the community like to have BIS' cooperation and support in this? Yes we would. It sets a bad precedent and leaves a sour taste in our mouths.

I am dissappointed by BIS stance. I understand it. I dont agree with it from a moral standpoint but the precedent it now sets gives me serious pause.

Well said Rock...

Totally agree with everything you have said there. Although I never released much, a few scripts here and there, it still galls me that people like A3L so called devs can basically rip the proverbial out of the community, with BIS doing hee haw about it..

All I can see happening is more and more serious devs leaving the mod scene for ARMA, which in turn will lower sales for say A4.

For BIS to take the appropriate action would surely settle the confidence issues most if not all mod makers have in them just now..

[amatt 10]

Ive previously said I do not want encryption. I want better community education and support from both BIS and the community. Marek made a good post about Licenses a while back. But it was lacking context for a lot of people. They didn't know why it was made. The rest were in denial about the real reason behind it.

Without a real penalty or legal basis you have no hope in hell of enforcing anything.

AMAR exist because enough people are concerned about their work to join together. But all they (we) can do is make enough noise that the rest of the community is aware or hope and dream that BIS take interest and pity on us and help.

I agree, without any serious consequences there is no incentive for communities like this one to stop such behavior.

With regard to my suggestion, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to have some powerful sanctions available to that body. Much like it's possible on these forums for moderators to ban users, it should be possible to blacklist servers (or something to a similar degree).

Apologies for brevity and spelling, sent from my phone.

[janus0104 3]

Much like it's possible on these forums for moderators to ban users, it should be possible to blacklist servers (or something to a similar degree).

I'd venture to say BIS is - more or less frantically - working on adding that to deal with the issue without legal costs - just remove infringing servers from their network. On that particular feature, we really do need to give them time to code it.

[rksl-rock 1300]

...it still galls me that people like A3L so called devs can basically rip the proverbial out of the community, with BIS doing hee haw about it..

Look I'll be honest, regarding addons being used illegally/immorally I dont see BIS doing anything legal about it. I don't see that there is a lot they can do in legal terms. As Matt Lightfoot said, its not their content being ripped.

But what i do not understand is why BIS did not make more of an issue about the fact A3L are flouting their no commercialization clause. Hell even a blind man can see the "donation" thing is utter BS. And that is what bothers me. I know the money is peanuts in business terms. But in terms of supporting the community and really making the addon makers and legitimate users feel valued if they did take action it would be worth a hell of a lot more to us. And ultimately BIS too.

The petition shows just how many people feel that this is wrong. Honestly I don't think its worded the best way, no matter how well intentioned, because it tries to force BIS to do something that they've already said they can't do. But I would of like a stronger, clear statement that A3L have violated their license from BIS given the level of support that is being shown.

I am disappointed that BIS smacked A3L on the wrist like a naughty child with the hand in the cookie jar and seemingly just walked away muttering, "glad its not my child".

Like a lot of other addon makers i'm sat here wondering; If im not allowed to make money from my addons why the f@#k are they? I can see exactly what they have done and I know what they are still doing.

But I don't see BIS taking legal action on anyone's behalf. However I would like to see BIS stand with the legitimate, the honest community of addon makers and say this behaviour is not acceptable. And we will not tolerate it.

That I do think is practical, honest and open. And it wont cost them a penny.

[smallhill 0]

IF BIS where to take action against A3L for asking for donations are then obliged to take action against any other clan or addonmaker with a donationbutton on their website? In a legal sense I mean.

[rksl-rock 1300]

IF BIS where to take action against A3L for asking for donations are then obliged to take action against any other clan or addonmaker with a donationbutton on their website? In a legal sense I mean.

Not really. There is a scale issue here. Donations to cover server costs is one thing. Making $50,000+ a year from exploiting people's Freeware is another.

Edited November 19, 2014 by RKSL-Rock