New Weaponsway is way to much. And holding breath bug?

[roshnak 41]

Make the sway go up and down instead of all over the place and I'd be ok with it.

But weapons realistically sway in a sideways figure eight pattern (roughly), which is what they do in the game.

As for the sniper rifle swaying, you have to remember that weapon resting isn't in the game at this point. I was firing from the prone, unsupported position. The rifle wasn't resting on anything, so it would be affected by the character's breathing rhythms and, thus, be subject to weapon sway.

Also, like I said, I would be far more willing to accept the argument that soldiers tire and reach the exhausted state too quickly than that the sway is unrealistic at various states of fatigue.

And about disabling fatigue: Does "unit enableFatigue false" not work anymore?

Edit: Just tested enableFatigue and it does work.

Edited July 16, 2014 by roshnak

[Rath 10]

Calling it a minigame is a bit silly. There was always weapon sway. How does making it more pronounced turn it into a minigame? Should shooting not be difficult at all?

It was difficult because the enemy skills were cranked up and using cover, tactics, and quick precise shots was more important than fighting drunken sway with your mouse.

---------- Post added at 05:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:15 AM ----------

But weapons realistically sway in a figure eight pattern.

I was literally just holding a rifle in various positions and not once did it make a figure eight pattern.

---------- Post added at 05:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:15 AM ----------

But weapons realistically sway in a figure eight pattern (roughly), which is what they do in the game.

As for the sniper rifle swaying, you have to remember that weapon resting isn't in the game at this point. I was firing from the prone, unsupported position. The rifle wasn't resting on anything, so it would be affected by the character's breathing rhythms and, thus, be subject to weapon sway.

Also, like I said, I would be far more willing to accept the argument that soldiers tire and reach the exhausted state too quickly than that the sway is unrealistic at various states of fatigue.

And about disabling fatigue: Does "unit enableFatigue false" not work anymore?

Edit: Just tested enableFatigue and it does work.

Why would you shoot a rifle like that prone and unsupported? It would take you a split second to flip the bipod down.

Using the excuse that there isn't a resting system is fine and all, but the fact that the game now says "oh you are prone, your weapon has a bipod, there is no option to rest it, so you get to deal with the sway anyways" completely breaks the immersion for me. Before 1.24 going prone and not seeing it visually rested was tolerable because it FELT rested.

As for completely disabling the fatigue... I like the *running/walking* exhaustion effect, I just think the sway should have different settings.

[roshnak 41]

I was literally just holding a rifle in various positions and not once did it make a figure eight pattern.

I don't have a magnified optic nearby, but there is a definite horizontal component to weapon sway as I experience it. I also found numerous references to it via a quick Google search. Although, there is some amount of conflicting information, since there are references to it being a used as a technique for offhand shooting as welll as being a natural phenomenon (either way, I would argue it is reasonable to include it in the game). I suppose I should clarify that it is a sideways figure eight or infinity symbol that I am talking about.

Why would you shoot a rifle like that prone and unsupported? It would take you a split second to flip the bipod down.

Using the excuse that there isn't a resting system is fine and all, but the fact that the game now says "oh you are prone, your weapon has a bipod, there is no option to rest it, so you get to deal with the sway anyways" completely breaks the immersion for me. Before 1.24 going prone and not seeing it visually rested was tolerable because it FELT rested.

As for completely disabling the fatigue... I like the *running/walking* exhaustion effect, I just think the sway should have different settings.

I don't really know what to tell you then, man. Weapon resting isn't in the game yet. There is some hope that it might be included in the Marksman DLC, although that will also introduce other factors to make long distance shooting more difficult. Before the Bootcamp update it was unrealistically easy to fire from positions where it was impossible to support your weapon. Now it's unrealistically difficult to fire from situations where you would realistically be able to support your weapon. Until those features are implemented, your opinion of weapon sway is probably going to depend on whether you would rather err on the side of shooting being more or less difficult.

As it is, there are several lightweight mods to add weapon resting. As much as it is a valid argument that you should not need to rely on mods for gameplay features, this is a game that has historically been largely reliant on mods to add gameplay features. Also, since it's much easier to mod in weapon resting than a comprehensive fatigue system, I think that in this situation it is more reasonable for BIS to release the fatigue system and let users mod in weapon resting (for now).

I also have to say that some of the things you mention, such as pointing out the lack of gear used in the linked video and suggesting that not everyone wants to play like that, lead me to believe that you may have as much of a problem with the fatigue levels as you do with the weapon sway.

[vegeta897 13]

Even when your weapon is resting/stabilized, that's only a pivot point. Your right hand holding the grip can still move the rifle in any direction (though probably more up/down than side to side) or else you wouldn't even be able to aim. Since you can't hold your hand perfectly still, there's going to be some sway, and with high magnification, it will appear significant.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

Or, give server admins the option of toggling different levels of sway instead of forcing everyone to deal with it.

They have this power in the form of a scripting command which disables the fatigue.

[Rath 10]

Been shooting guns my whole life... Horizontal weapon sway is very minimal. Looking through a 3x, 10x, 20x, right now... very minimal and 90% of the movement is vertical. Bohemia's solution for weapon sway is a gimmick.

Btw, we have been using VTS_Weaponresting for months. The new sway system persists through a rested weapon right now but I'm sure that will be fixed.

---------- Post added at 06:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:14 AM ----------

They have this power in the form of a scripting command which disables the fatigue.

Tried it and it doesn't seem to disable the drunken sway.

---------- Post added at 06:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 AM ----------

Even when your weapon is resting/stabilized, that's only a pivot point. Your right hand holding the grip can still move the rifle in any direction (though probably more up/down than side to side) or else you wouldn't even be able to aim. Since you can't hold your hand perfectly still, there's going to be some sway, and with high magnification, it will appear significant.

Yeah if you are moving around, but with a good cheek weld and a stable weapon it is very minimal.

[VoRtReX-uk 10]

Weather its realistic or not there shouldn't be so much weapon sway or fatigue in a game. After all it is a game, played for fun right?

If its something you want to change because you want it to be more realistic are there not mods for doing that? and if you want ultra realistic why the hell didn't you buy VBS3 instead?

CTF is pretty much killed by this, in fact pretty much all PvP is screwed to some degree. But yet it seems to me all the coop plays (who use mods anyways) are just fine and dandy with the new system, wonder why that might be?

So BIS screwed over the PvP players, is the simple truth. I've played this game since the OFP demo, don't tell me I play COD or BF because I don't, I have one game installed on my PC and that's ARMA3.

[maddogx 13]

So BIS screwed over the PvP players, is the simple truth.

No one has been screwed over. PvP mission makers can simply use this: player enableFatigue false.

[VoRtReX-uk 10]

No one has been screwed over. PvP mission makers can simply use this: player enableFatigue false.

So why can't coop players mission makers turn it on for their maps? Why does this new system have to be default? Why can't you use a mod?

[maddogx 13]

So why can't coop players mission makers turn it on for their maps? Why does this new system have to be default? Why can't you use a mod?

*shrug*

I'm not the one making these decisions.

[roberthammer 582]

Been shooting guns my whole life... Horizontal weapon sway is very minimal. Looking through a 3x, 10x, 20x, right now... very minimal and 90% of the movement is vertical. Bohemia's solution for weapon sway is a gimmick.

Exactly - ingame horizontal weapon sway is way too much , from my weapon experience i had only vertical sway horizontal almost none while standing , in prone pos theres no way to sway like that left/right like a drunk bum

Edited July 16, 2014 by RobertHammer

[VoRtReX-uk 10]

*shrug*

I'm not the one making these decisions.

Would it not make sense to make it an option on difficulty settings?

So you can have a option in the config to toggle fatigue and weapon sway to be like before and after 1.24:

Fatiguesim= x

1 Fatigue ON and as it is IN patch 1.24

0 OFF and how it was BEFORE patch 1.24

Make it an option and make EVERYONE HAPPY, don't leave it up to the map makers to edit existing maps because that just doesn't work.

[j4you 10]

I dont understand how a software house, that develop game FPS as BI,can to be more credible that a professional Military as a Shooting Instructor.

Normally they are that companies that they consult with them and not conversely.

About the wrong idea to compare this new effect whit a real action life i dont see any example more true if i wont see what false and what irrealistic.

I dont talking about more hard or more easy, but just if this one can to be credible or not,,,,and it's not!

But i see that some people find it so exciting and so awesome this new invention whit trick and twaek video about:

How shoot your target even if your scope sway !

You can find the right compromise for round this issue....but it's always a issue!

Edited July 16, 2014 by j4you

[dsiOne 10]

BIS really needed to add a "Weapon Handling Course For Beginners" part to the Bootcamp update. Of course I guess you can't really blame BIS for not expecting their realism chasing fanbase to think realistic weapon handling is unrealistic.

[VoRtReX-uk 10]

BIS really needed to add a "Weapon Handling Course For Beginners" part to the Bootcamp update. Of course I guess you can't really blame BIS for not expecting their realism chasing fanbase to think realistic weapon handling is unrealistic.

Right so we should have One button per leg so we can walk forward realistically? Do come off it you just play the realistic card when it suits you....

[dsiOne 10]

Right so we should have One button per leg so we can walk forward realistically? Do come off it you just play the realistic card when it suits you....

Unlike that idea, realistic weapon handling both improves the "realism" and "gameplay" aspects.

[Rath 10]

BIS really needed to add a "Weapon Handling Course For Beginners" part to the Bootcamp update. Of course I guess you can't really blame BIS for not expecting their realism chasing fanbase to think realistic weapon handling is unrealistic.

Realistic? hahaha please. Realistic if you were drunk and fighting a strong 100mph wind trying to push your rifle out of your hands.

No offense but your video was a poor example of the new system. Tried the same thing and my guy never even got winded cause like you, he was carrying 4 mags and nothing else :P

Edited July 16, 2014 by Rath

[vegeta897 13]

Just going to repeat this since it keeps being ignored.

It takes effort in real life to hold a weapon steady.

It does not take effort to not move your mouse.

If shooting is to be reasonably challenging in the game, as it is in life, there must be movement that you have to work against. The alternative is adding artificial random dispersion to the weapon like other shooters do, which results in an incredibly frustrating experience at medium and long ranges.

Despite there being weapon sway, you remain in control of your weapon. Learn to work with it and manage your stamina. Adapt.

[Rath 10]

Just going to repeat this since it keeps being ignored.

It takes effort in real life to hold a weapon steady.

It does not take effort to not move your mouse.

If shooting is to be reasonably challenging in the game, as it is in life, there must be movement that you have to work against. The alternative is adding artificial random dispersion to the weapon like other shooters do, which results in an incredibly frustrating experience at medium and long ranges.

Despite there being weapon sway, you remain in control of your weapon. Learn to work with it and manage your stamina. Adapt.

Obviously it takes effort to keep a weapon steady... but it still doesn't magically wobble from side to side.

Also, it does take effort to move your mouse and aim at a target in the first place, sway or not.

So those of us who don't think it makes sense and don't want to play a minigame but still like the *running/walking fatigue* need an option to turn off *horizontal* sway and everyone can be happy.

[j4you 10]

I had explain before the rules about as shoot a target,but i will repeat it again:

1)Before open the fire you have to find the right position about your weapon for the recoil.

2)Find the best posture...when it's possible.

3)Keep your heartbeat as calm as possible.

4)Focus your target.

5)Calculate the approximate distance of the target.

5)Keep the breath but not for too long, or you will get the opposite effect.

....and open the fire.

Now if you can follow this standard rules whit this patch whitout see that crazy dance scope...i will install again the game because may be i get something wrong in my PC.

Edited July 16, 2014 by j4you

[byku 13]

Nice topic on reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/arma/comments/2aswpf/new_fatigue_system_weapon_sway_etc_is_it_realistic/

With a v. good movie ;).

Like I said before. I love the new sway mechanics.

I'm exercising everyday for a year, it's still surprising for me how taking 50% body weight on your back and doing 4x12 sit-ups can exhaust me. Doing also sprints up the hill. I think the fatigue here is spot on. Still that soldier is much better than me ;).

Yes, we need weapon resting now ;).

Edit.: Uhh didn't read the whole topic to be honest, it's a long one. Yeap, the youtube video has already been posted...

Edited July 16, 2014 by Byku

[j4you 10]

Nice topic on reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/arma/comments/2aswpf/new_fatigue_system_weapon_sway_etc_is_it_realistic/

With a v. good movie ;).

Like I said before. I love the new sway mechanics.

....whic mechanics?..the drunk effect?:)

I'm exercising everyday for a year, it's still surprising for me how taking 50% body weight on your back and doing 4x12 sit-ups can exhaust me. Doing also sprints up the hill. I think the fatigue here is spot on. Still that soldier is much better than me ;).

Yes, we need weapon resting now ;).

Try to bring back a big fridge, and you will be sorprise, how you feel better later when you will removed it.

But i see that some people find it so exciting and so awesome this new invention whit trick and twaek video about:

How shoot your target even if your scope sway so irrealistic !

It 'a great displeasure to see, day after day, that goes by this title to drift about nonsense!

And the funniest thing with the approval of some players!FPDR

Edited July 16, 2014 by j4you

[Rath 10]

Nice topic on reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/arma/comments/2aswpf/new_fatigue_system_weapon_sway_etc_is_it_realistic/

With a v. good movie ;).

Like I said before. I love the new sway mechanics.

Oh you mean that video of the guy who admits he had trouble doing that same thing in RL? lol...

That video where because he is carrying barely any gear his guy isn't even winded?

Listen to what he says in the video... He talks about how it is in real life doing that and how completely inaccurate and exhausted he was yet in the gameplay video his guy hit every shot and wasn't even breathing heavy. HOW IS THAT REALISTIC?

Edited July 16, 2014 by Rath

[-Coulum- 35]

Listen to what he says in the video... He talks about how it is in real life doing that and how completely inaccurate and exhausted he was yet in the gameplay video his guy hit every shot and wasn't even breathing heavy. HOW IS THAT REALISTIC?

Wait what? Haha I'm confused.

That video is a great demonstration of how weapons can still be used effectively right now. vegeta and others have said it already before so there isn't much use in me trying to explain it to people like Rath or j4you again. In real life you actively have to control your weapon - So it only makes sense that in game you have to actively control your weapon. Pointing and clicking isn't up to par. The amount of concentration required to shoot in real life is far more than that in game. Thus the need for more sway. If you accept it and actually try to get used to it, you will find you will be able to perform any shot you can perform in reality, and even some that you can't make in reality.

I wish Dsylecxi would do a similar video that informs people of the weapon sway, why its there and how to handle it. (A polite way of saying suck it up and learn to play the fucken game)

The changes to the sway today basically make it the same as it was before the update (aside from fatigue effect on sway). Too my mind it is a step backward. Prone shooting allows me to easily plink away at far away units without much need to get close and I can engage people 500 metres away from a crouch. Not realistic or very engaging.

In the end I am sure a balance will come, but it makes me cringe to think of BI changing things:

a) for people who refuse to even

try

to adapt or consider the possibilities

and

b) before the community has even really gotten enough time to try it out.

I mean com'n the patch has been out a couple days and they have already pretty much reverted the weapon sway. Majority of players have yet to fully try it out, let alone get used to it. If it is BI intention to dial back the sway until bipods/resting is available, and then dial it back up that is fine, but I hate to see them change it just because "little jimmy can't handle it".

Anyhow sorry for ranting.

[polecat.uk 11]

This sway is stopping me from playing, its bad, Nothing like the real world (from my limited experience of weapon handling, as I'm from the UK) I do have a high power crossbow with a 4-16x50aoe scope though.

After doing a few tests with it, I can say whoever came up with this has never used a scoped weapon! or maybe they should see a doctor if they think this is the way it is. Could someone strap a gopro to the top of the scope and do a comparison, I would but don't have one :)