New Weaponsway is way to much. And holding breath bug?

[St. Jimmy 272]

Seems like hold breath is bit broken then. IMO it should steady the aim more for some seconds.

If you're prone and have weapon rested the aim sways up and down with your breathing if you're positioned right. Now it looks like it sways left to right wich means that you're not positioned right because your skeleton doesn't give enough support.

[dsiOne 10]

...dont be fun plz!

No man!...May be you dont wont understand what it's true and what it's wrong.

I dont need that somebody through a videogame explain to me how must work a assault rifle in reale life.

Now!If you wont say, that for to play this game, i must adopt another way for what is obvious and normal ..... that's another thing!

But dont tell me that this simulates reality!

You could be sorprise what you can do in crounch position whit a M4 carabine to the frist target to 100-150 mt!

What they should do instead is to simulate a higher recoil weapons and lower the sway effect and give greater priority to the breath!

You might find this interesting...

[j4you 10]

You might find this interesting...

May be you can found it more intresting...that's where i come from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9th_Parachute_Assault_Regiment

I think that i can give some lesson about it to Bohemia Interactive ....without being presumptuous!

[dsiOne 10]

May be you can found it more intresting...that's where i come from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9th_Parachute_Assault_Regiment

That dude is a soldier too. I know you haven't watched the video yet :o

[j4you 10]

Nice...tell me whic weapon do you use..i can give you a nice video example!..LOL

[dsiOne 10]

Nice...tell me whic weapon do you use..i can give you a nice video example!..LOL

Just watch it, trust me :)

[roshnak 41]

May be you can found it more intresting...that's where i come from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9th_Parachute_Assault_Regiment

I think that i can give some lesson about it to Bohemia Interactive ....without being presumptuous!

Yeah, but the guy in the video hit all the targets in a short period of time at ranges from 25-300m. The point is that it's apparently not that hard to hit targets while fatigued with the new system. If that guy can do it, why can't other people? His Youtube channel would lead me to believe that he's not some sort of pro gamer or anything.

[jcae2798 132]

What they should do instead is to simulate a higher recoil weapons and lower the sway effect and give greater priority to the breath!

Amen brother

[mr burns 132]

Not saying i dont find the new sway kind of overdone, and i haven´t tried firing from a kneel (which would be mostly used in coop - the gras you know), but from my short test it didn´t seem to be utterly broken. Was able to land some shots out to 1000m in prone (eat that other youtube guy!). Fatigue had a rather quick cool down in prone, in deed it was so quickly gone that i couldn´t really test fatigued ranged shots. Fatigue build-up also was way slower than reading the forums made me think it was.

What this new update seems to have done is kill Sniper/Medic/Pilot/AT/Assault Hybrid builds, who carry more stuff than you could possibly put in the trunk of the civilian cars.

AuzOs8mlB4s

Talking about AI not feeling the same restrictions, giving them even more of an edge above "honest" players - is another very critical issue though.

[roshnak 41]

So please tell me how can i aim accurately with this sway.

I missed 3 shots at 1000m, and I was firing pretty quickly. Until the Marksmen DLC further fleshes out long distance shooting, I feel like this is reasonable.

Edit: Beaten. And yeah, AI balance could be an issue.

Edited July 16, 2014 by roshnak

[Sillywabbit 10]

I missed 3 shots at 1000m, and I was firing pretty quickly. Until the Marksmen DLC further fleshes out long distance shooting, I feel like this is reasonable.

Edit: Beaten. And yeah, AI balance could be an issue.

Before patch i was hitting 1.8 k + kills with sniper on koth =/

[dsiOne 10]

Before patch i was hitting 1.8 k + kills with sniper on koth =/

I hope you realize how insanely hard that is to do and how broken it was that you were able to do it before.

[vegeta897 13]

Before patch i was hitting 1.8 k + kills with sniper on koth =/

His point was that current marksmanship difficulty is reasonable, not that it isn't harder than it was.

[killerwhale 1]

i think it is part of the sniper DLC they were talking about. we already have 50% of the DLC

[-Coulum- 35]

I missed 3 shots at 1000m, and I was firing pretty quickly. Until the Marksmen DLC further fleshes out long distance shooting, I feel like this is reasonable.

That is more than reasonable. It just goes to show that the system isn't actually that bad if people were to actually try to take it on, rather than immediately complain.

So please tell me how can i aim accurately with this sway.

Don't rush it. make sure your sights are on target before you try to shoot. Personally I don't try to fight the sway. Rather I try to guide it. Ie. if I see the rifle starting to sway left I will place it to the right of the target, wait till it drifts almost on target the target, hold breath just before to slow things down a bit and fire when it lines up. I am not sure how other people shoot. Hold breath key is lacking in effectiveness though.

[jcae2798 132]

So playing around with the game so more i am finding that you need to take this game very very slow. Something that took me 15 min to clear a town before is now taking me 30. I do like the concept, but damn talk about a waste of time :)

[vegeta897 13]

So playing around with the game so more i am finding that you need to take this game very very slow. Something that took me 15 min to clear a town before is now taking me 30. I do like the concept, but damn talk about a waste of time :)

A waste of time? If I had a choice between spending 15 minutes having fun and 30 minutes having fun, I'd pick the latter.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

What this new update seems to have done is kill Sniper/Medic/Pilot/AT/Assault Hybrid builds, who carry more stuff than you could possibly put in the trunk of the civilian cars.

It's about damn time!!!

Something that took me 15 min to clear a town before is now taking me 30. I do like the concept, but damn talk about a waste of time

Again, good! Clearing a town isn't something that should be an easy task even in a village with only 5-10 buildings.

Anything that makes players slow down and think tactically is amazing. I love how gear selection, vest selection, ammo selection all carries a huge importance!

[Rath 10]

Really? You think that sway is unrealistic from a 15lb weapon from the crouched, unsupported position with a 4x optic?

Yep I certainly do. It doesn't sway like you are drunk. If I take a knee and bring up my weapon it sways a little bit just up and down from breathing - nowhere near what ArmA 3 sway is now but I'm in shape and have arms.

In ArmA 3 there currently is no option other than unsupported shooting right now (without addons)... If I crouch to shoot I support the weapon either by resting my elbow on my knee or resting it on a tree/wall/fender/buddy. Even if I am breathing heavy I can hold my breath for a few seconds to take a steady shot. These characters we play are supposed to be trained soldiers right? Seems more like drunken, out of shape, fat amateurs right now.

I don't understand the logic in releasing something like this before any sort of resting option (marksman dlc?) or at least a slider in the option to reduce/increase the amount of sway.

[vegeta897 13]

Guys, can we please stop trying to relate how real life weapon handling is with how it is in the game? It's a comparison that is fundamentally flawed.

In a game, you do not have to do anything to not move your weapon. In real life, it requires muscle power to steady a weapon. That right there is why there needs to be movement forced onto the weapon in the game. The energy you expend steadying your weapon in real life is supposed to be compensated by the need to counter the weapon sway, or work with it in some way (like Coulum suggested, you can take your own approach to this).

If you don't like the way the weapon sway is, that's fine, but please stop using reality as a reason for that argument. It would not make sense for me to have my weapon be as steady as I could hold one in real life (which takes actual effort) by not even touching my mouse. What I'm trying to say is that shooting in the game should be as challenging as in real life, but the way that challenge is created is required to be different, since holding a rifle and using a mouse are completely different things.

[roshnak 41]

Yep I certainly do. It doesn't sway like you are drunk. If I take a knee and bring up my weapon it sways a little bit just up and down from breathing - nowhere near what ArmA 3 sway is now but I'm in shape and have arms.

In ArmA 3 there currently is no option other than unsupported shooting right now (without addons)... If I crouch to shoot I support the weapon either by resting my elbow on my knee or resting it on a tree/wall/fender/buddy. Even if I am breathing heavy I can hold my breath for a few seconds to take a steady shot. These characters we play are supposed to be trained soldiers right? Seems more like drunken, out of shape, fat amateurs right now.

I don't understand the logic in releasing something like this before any sort of resting option (marksman dlc?) or at least a slider in the option to reduce/increase the amount of sway.

First of all, I'm not really clear on whether you are referring to unsupported shooting, since you referenced resting your weapon from the kneeling position.

Second, on the one hand, I can agree that some sort of weapon resting would have been a nice way to counter the new sway mechanics and allow players to more effectively engage from the standing or crouched positions. On the other hand, I understand the logic in not doing so. The new sway encourages longer duration fire fights and emphasizes fire and maneuver tactics and supression fire, which are both things that this community has been begging for. It also helps to curb the long running problem this series has had, whereby fights are predominantly extremely long range (500+ meters) snipe fests. Without the other features of the Marksman DLC to make long distance shooting more difficult, weapon resting would bring us basically back to where we were before the patch and potentially encourage even more static gameplay.

If you want to make the argument that soldiers tire too quickly, then we can have that discussion, people have already suggested that both the rate of fatigue and stamina regeneration are too high and should be slowed down. But this thread is about weapon sway, not fatigue levels.

I'm curious as to whether you watched the video dsiOne linked a couple of pages ago, since that showed a guy who didn't seem particularly hampered by the new fatigue system at all, and was able to accurately engage targets from various stances and ranges after 100m sprints. I'd also like to get your opinion on the video I posted in which I killed 4 enemy soldiers from a kilometer away in less than a minute.

In real life, it requires muscle power to steady a weapon. That right there is why there needs to be movement forced onto the weapon in the game. The energy you expend steadying your weapon in real life is supposed to be compensated by the need to counter the weapon sway, or work with it in some way (like Coulum suggested, you can take your own approach to this).

If you don't like the way the weapon sway is, that's fine, but please stop using reality as a reason for that argument. It would not make sense for me to have my weapon be as steady as I could hold one in real life (which takes actual effort) by not even touching my mouse. What I'm trying to say is that shooting in the game should be as challenging as in real life, but the way that challenge is created is required to be different, since holding a rifle and using a mouse are completely different things.

Yeah, but that's not really how using a weapon works in real life. You don't use muscle power so much as you use your skeleton to support the weapon, which takes far less energy. The sway that you experience when holding a weapon is from breathing, not shaking muscles or expended energy. The reason that a weapon sways more when you are tired is because you're breathing harder, not because you have less energy. If you are in a proper firing position and not moving and expending the minimal amount of energy, your sights should return to where you're aiming (They do this in game, too. The question is is do they move too far or stay deviated too long).

Furthermore, how much weapon sway most trained shooters experience in real life is a good place to start drawing comparisons to how much weapons should sway in the game. Aiming with a mouse (or just using a mouse to complete tasks in general) in video games is a skill. It's a skill that many shooters rely heavily on and can have near limitless room for growth and development even in games that aren't limited by weapon sway or recoil patterns or dispersion. The skill it takes to get good at doing this can be as analogous to learning good marksmanship as weapon sway can be. What I'm saying here is that talking about how much weapon sway people experience in real life is not unreasonable, because unrealistic weapon sway is not a necessary component for introducing skill to marksmanship.

Edited July 16, 2014 by roshnak

[Rath 10]

Not everyone wants to play a minigame when they are trying to shoot at someone which would be easily remedied had they made it optional... and for those of us who care about realism and fidelity it is quite annoying.

Its not like this game is about spaceships and aliens... its about shooting and moving, among many other things.

[vegeta897 13]

Not everyone wants to play a minigame when they are trying to shoot at someone which would be easily remedied had they made it optional..

Calling it a minigame is a bit silly. There was always weapon sway. How does making it more pronounced turn it into a minigame? Should shooting not be difficult at all?

[roshnak 41]

Not everyone wants to play a minigame when they are trying to shoot at someone which would be easily remedied had they made it optional... and for those of us who care about realism and fidelity it is quite annoying.

Its not like this game is about spaceships and aliens... its about shooting and moving, among many other things.

Who are you responding to? What game with spaceships and aliens has weapon sway or anything like it?

I'm going to assume you didn't read my post or watch the video I referenced in it. At this point it just sounds like you are kind of bad at video games and want this one to be easier.

[Rath 10]

First of all, I'm not really clear on whether you are referring to unsupported shooting, since you referenced resting your weapon from the kneeling position.

Second, on the one hand, I can agree that some sort of weapon resting would have been a nice way to counter the new sway mechanics and allow players to more effectively engage from the standing or crouched positions. On the other hand, I understand the logic in not doing so. The new sway encourages longer duration fire fights and emphasizes fire and maneuver tactics and supression fire, which are both things that this community has been begging for. It also helps to curb the long running problem this series has had, whereby fights are predominantly extremely long range (500+ meters) snipe fests. Without the other features of the Marksman DLC to make long distance shooting more difficult, weapon resting would bring us basically back to where we were before the patch and potentially encourage even more static gameplay.

If you want to make the argument that soldiers tire too quickly, then we can have that discussion, people have already suggested that both the rate of fatigue and stamina regeneration are too high and should be slowed down. But this thread is about weapon sway, not fatigue levels.

I'm curious as to whether you watched the video dsiOne linked on the previous page, since that showed a guy who didn't seem particularly hampered by the new fatigue system at all, and was able to accurately engage targets from various stances and ranges after 100m sprints. I'd also like to get your opinion on the video I posted in which I killed 4 enemy soldiers from a kilometer away in less than a minute.

I have no problem playing the game and hitting things accurately, its just that this new system completely breaks the immersion for me and my community.

I watched both videos. dsiOne wasn't carrying much gear. I do drills like those often and don't have any issues hitting things in real life. Doing that with lots of gear in-game reveals the ridiculous drunken sway. If you want to run around with barely any gear go for it, but not everyone wants to play like that.

Your video was while you were prone with a sniper rifle. That weapon shouldn't sway at all.

Make the sway go up and down instead of all over the place and I'd be ok with it.

Or, give server admins the option of toggling different levels of sway instead of forcing everyone to deal with it.

Does it reduce the amount of 500m+ sniper fests? Sure, but in my community we have assigned roles and only a few people like those kind of engagements.

---------- Post added at 05:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 AM ----------

Who are you responding to? What game with spaceships and aliens has weapon sway or anything like it?

I'm going to assume you didn't read my post or watch the video I referenced in it. At this point it just sounds like you are kind of bad at video games and want this one to be easier.

I meant that a lot of ArmA is about shooting and it isn't like its science fiction.

All I'm trying to say is that it should be optional...

I make maps for my group and they are very challenging, so no I don't want it to be easier. This update killed the immersion for me and it feels very disconnected now.