Legal discussion regarding Steam Workshop

[HJohnson 16]

fuck over the author like you did.

Maybe I'm a tad daft, how does Hopecore development affect Blastcore development in any way? Please list them. For as far as I can tell, those who wish to use vanilla blastcore will continue to. Those who wish to use Hopecore will do so. This does nothing against me and nothing against OpticalSnare.

[zooloo75 834]

Maybe I'm a tad daft, how does Hopecore development affect Blastcore development in any way? Please list them. For as far as I can tell, those who wish to use vanilla blastcore will continue to. Those who wish to use Hopecore will do so. This does nothing against me and nothing against OpticalSnare.

Perhaps you should read the previous pages and get your head out of your ass.

It's like I'm talking to some incompetent tech support.

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[haleks 8212]

Jeez, that's one of a troll, seriously...

Someone ban him already or this will go on for ages without producting anything good.

I can only imagine that dude's idiotic laught behind his computer; don't waste your time with that kid guys...

[Cephel 10]

Opticalsnare and supporters really need to get off their high horse. We complied with whatever rule you waved in our face, and edited the mod like 4 times now to comply with some asinine reasoning that you people cook up. We talked it over with dwarden over and over and over again. We finally arrived at a solution where OpticalSnare's work is not affected in any way, all his "rights" are respected and all should be fine and dandy, but apparently that's still not enough. The current HopeCore is 100% our original work and you will NOT tell us what to do with it now. Falsely flagging it on armaholic was low enough already. Your rights end where our line of codes begin. You got what you wanted, we do no longer redistribute ( which we did because it was easier on the user ), nor do we include any of OpticalSnare's work, all particles and config files in HopeCore are our own work. Now just let it go. HopeCore is already unflagged on steam workshop because it is now fully compatible with their EULA and the self imposed rules of the arma community as a whole.

You do not get to decide what people do with your mod in their own install, and when they decide to use the optional patch-mod that we created, then it's their decision, not yours.

As for OpticalSnare "threatening" to obfuscate his code to prevent people building ontop of it. That's a new high for being scummy. The little time you apparently have as a hard working addon creator is gonna be eaten up even more by trying to make the code unreadable, congratulations. That means we can expect the next blastcore update in 2029 I guess, and this means we all win. Yay :D

And yes, I specifically made this account ( putting up with retarded signup bugs for 2 hours ), to post in this thread, so get at me

That is all

[haleks 8212]

Your rights end where our line of codes begin.

lol...

[zooloo75 834]

Opticalsnare and supporters really need to get off their high horse. We complied with whatever rule you waved in our face, and edited the mod like 4 times now to comply with some asinine reasoning that you people cook up. We talked it over with dwarden over and over and over again. We finally arrived at a solution where OpticalSnare's work is not affected in any way, all his "rights" are respected and all should be fine and dandy, but apparently that's still not enough. The current HopeCore is 100% our original work and you will NOT tell us what to do with it now. Falsely flagging it on armaholic was low enough already. Your rights end where our line of codes begin. You got what you wanted, we do no longer redistribute ( which we did because it was easier on the user ), nor do we include any of OpticalSnare's work, all particles and config files in HopeCore are our own work. Now just let it go. HopeCore is already unflagged on steam workshop because it is now fully compatible with their EULA and the self imposed rules of the arma community as a whole.

You do not get to decide what people do with your mod in their own install, and when they decide to use the optional patch-mod that we created, then it's their decision, not yours.

As for OpticalSnare "threatening" to obfuscate his code to prevent people building ontop of it. That's a new high for being scummy. The little time you apparently have as a hard working addon creator is gonna be eaten up even more by trying to make the code unreadable, congratulations. That means we can expect the next blastcore update in 2029 I guess, and this means we all win. Yay :D

And yes, I specifically made this account ( putting up with retarded signup bugs for 2 hours ), to post in this thread, so get at me

That is all

You fail to see the big picture. Before you ask, no, I will not waste my time explaining it to you.

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[haleks 8212]

The little time you apparently have as a hard working addon creator is gonna be eaten up even more by trying to make the code unreadable, congratulations. That means we can expect the next blastcore update in 2029 I guess, and this means we all win. Yay :D

No, don't turn things upside down : congratulations to you guys, really.

[zooloo75 834]

Opticalsnare and supporters really need to get off their high horse. We complied with whatever rule you waved in our face, and edited the mod like 4 times now to comply with some asinine reasoning that you people cook up. We talked it over with dwarden over and over and over again. We finally arrived at a solution where OpticalSnare's work is not affected in any way, all his "rights" are respected and all should be fine and dandy, but apparently that's still not enough. The current HopeCore is 100% our original work and you will NOT tell us what to do with it now. Falsely flagging it on armaholic was low enough already. Your rights end where our line of codes begin. You got what you wanted, we do no longer redistribute ( which we did because it was easier on the user ), nor do we include any of OpticalSnare's work, all particles and config files in HopeCore are our own work. Now just let it go. HopeCore is already unflagged on steam workshop because it is now fully compatible with their EULA and the self imposed rules of the arma community as a whole.

You do not get to decide what people do with your mod in their own install, and when they decide to use the optional patch-mod that we created, then it's their decision, not yours.

As for OpticalSnare "threatening" to obfuscate his code to prevent people building ontop of it. That's a new high for being scummy. The little time you apparently have as a hard working addon creator is gonna be eaten up even more by trying to make the code unreadable, congratulations. That means we can expect the next blastcore update in 2029 I guess, and this means we all win. Yay :D

And yes, I specifically made this account ( putting up with retarded signup bugs for 2 hours ), to post in this thread, so get at me

That is all

But congratulations, your line of code starts where I won't download it.

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[Cephel 10]

lol...

I don't know why you are laughing, this is pretty much word for word the argument that OpticalSnare bombarded us with to get us to take down our version of HopeCore that did include BlastCore as a dependency. You people successfully convinced us that you as an addon creator have supreme authority over what happens with it, as long as it is your own work. Now we do just that. Our mod is our own work

Deal with it

But congratulations, your line of code starts where I won't download it.

That is your god damn right, happy you realize this. We tried to say from day one that people who don't wanna use HopeCore can just use the regular BlastCore instead

[zooloo75 834]

I don't know why you are laughing, this is pretty much word for word the argument that OpticalSnare bombarded us with to get us to take down our version of HopeCore that did include BlastCore as a dependency. You people successfully convinced us that you as an addon creator have supreme authority over what happens with it, as long as it is your own work. Now we do just that. Our mod is our own work

Deal with it

And you wonder why we see you guys as shitty people.

Your "mod" doesn't do anything without his mod.

BTW, just to prove my point about you being a shitty person: your first post on this forum consists of you attacking the real author and you displaying your lack of morals. Good introduction.

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[PuFu 4600]

@Johnson:

Do i seem that i am talking about of my ass, or that i was born yesterday to you? Please spare me of the excuses. You and/or your dear friend could have written your own configs, using only model="\f18\f18.p3d" (path might be wrong here, i never "opened" the .pbo, nor checked its configs), and create your own configs, using AirplaneX if that is what you wanted. Of course your mod would have been dependent on the original content.

I know very well what it takes to make a texture. I am making a living (partly) from the 3d industry. I will reiterate: if you need to 3d model in front of you, and can't be bothered with the setbacks using someone else's work creates, you either:

1. create it yourself

2. have permission for the same files (if those are not bespoke)

Well, if no ones work quite all by himself. That is what mod teams are for (some created spontaneously without a certain scope, some with very certain objectives set). No one is stopping you to gather people you need around you, or offer your skills towards a certain addon that you think it can improvements. Again, that doesn't mean you can rip open other peoples work, repack and call it your own.

[Cephel 10]

And you wonder why we see you guys as shitty people.

Your "mod" doesn't do anything without his mod.

And Blastcore doesn't do anything without CBA, or the game itself for that matter. That kind of reasoning will not lead us very far. Back in Arma 2 people would make their mod "compatible" with ACE2, does that mean their mod should be taken down now? You have to draw a border somewhere.

[zooloo75 834]

And Blastcore doesn't do anything without CBA, or the game itself for that matter. That kind of reasoning will not lead us very far. Back in Arma 2 people would make their mod "compatible" with ACE2, does that mean their mod should be taken down now? You have to draw a border somewhere.

Almost everything relies on CBA, if I see you infringing my IP rights you can expect a lawsuit. You have the most unfound argument.

How hard is it to respect someone and their work? Your parents need to whoop your ass.

BTW, you kids are not programmers, so don't pull off that dependency bullshit. These aren't linked libraries; they aren't compiled. These are images and text files. You don't need CBA to open these files. You are fucking stupid.

With your logic I can say that you are infringing Microsoft's IP rights because you didn't give credit for using Notepad in which your files can be used with.

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Edited July 17, 2014 by R0adki11
removed offensive words - RK

[PuFu 4600]

And Blastcore doesn't do anything without CBA, or the game itself for that matter. That kind of reasoning will not lead us very far. Back in Arma 2 people would make their mod "compatible" with ACE2, does that mean their mod should be taken down now? You have to draw a border somewhere.

I think you are a bit mistaken here.

1. If CBA changes some stuff, all other mods that are dependent on it will have to do addapt. Same goes if A3 changes the way it deals with sounds (1.24 rigs a bell?)

2. That being said, not ONE took CBA, added 2-3 lines of code, repacked it and named it... (you've guessed it)...CBA.. and reuploaded it as the original author.

3. It is (although i understand his reasoning, i am against that sort of move) OpticalSnare's prerogative to obfuscate his own code. In which case, if i am not mistaken, you are out of mod, are you not?

4. I cannot speak for the ones i don't know about, but the main reason you are in this situation (that i am sure could have been avoided if some common courtesy would have been used) is NOT because you patched and changed some effects, but because you released it, under the same name, in a repacked form under your own steam account. I am sure if you would have made it "compatible" with Blastcore from the beggining this drama wouldn't have occured.

Although the above has been written, rephrased again and again for the last 2 days, you and Johnson don't seem to be able to get the grasp of it, for some reason that eludes me.

I am not defending OpticalSnare, in fact i don't even use his mod (personal preference) and neither yours (and will most likely never will).

Can we get back on the topic of Steam Workshop?

Edited July 17, 2014 by PuFu

[nodunit 397]

Whoa, tone down on the language and insults, I know it is a very heated and touchy topic but surely we can address this in a more civilized manner that won't lead to infractions being handed out, users being banned temporarily and moderators shutting the topic down.

Edited July 17, 2014 by NodUnit

[R0adki11 3949]

Whoa, tone down on the language and insults man, I know it is a very heated and touchy topic but surely we can address this in a more civilized manner that won't lead to infractions being handed out, users being banned temporarily and moderators shutting the topic down.

Well said, please can users of this forum respect the forum rules and each other. Otherwise as NodUnit said there will be consequences.

Thanks

R0adki11

[zooloo75 834]

I'm flattered that my use of words distracted you from the argument. Perhaps a lesson over being easy to let trolls walk all over us would help...

Like most of us, we're sick of letting unappreciative people take advantage of legal loopholes in order to justify their wrongdoings.

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Edited July 17, 2014 by zooloo75

[Cephel 10]

How fucking hard is it to respect someone and their work?

We DO respect OpticalSnares work, otherwise we wouldn't have gone through the trouble of even MAKING it into a patch pbo in the first place, we'd have just left it as is, and distributed the mod on different channels. We are already showing TREMENDOUS amount of respect by changing our mod just because he has a hissy fit and is actually mad enough to screw over his mod users to spite people who wanna help. We had 2 accounts get banned, 3 questions for help, questions to mod alterations and fix submissions denied before we even STARTED on HopeCore. We complied with his requests even after they left his jurisdiction. We changed the steam workshop submission 4 times to comply with his demands, we changed our armaholic submission and THEN it was falsely flagged and reported. We even stopped working with it on github ( for now ) because of it. Don't even believe for ONE second we don't have respect for his work.

We did EVERYTHING, spent hours and days just navigating this jungle.

We could've just went ahead, showed him the middlefinger and saved us the trouble of dealing with him, but we didn't

And for your information, I'm a software developer with over 15 years of industry experience working in IT and R&D.

2. That being said, not ONE took CBA, added 2-3 lines of code, repacked it and named it... (you've guessed it)...CBA.. and reuploaded it as the original author.

We never "took Blastcore", added 2-3 lines of code ( we're at 5000+ lines of code currently ), and we never named it Blastcore either, it was always either hopecore or Blastcore a3g with clear indications of who the original author is, where to find him and an explanation that this is a patch with a dependency of the original addon ( or how it used to be: modification of the original work ).

We never once

- claimed to be the original author of blastcore

- claimed to provide the original version of blastcore

- mention that we're "official" or that we're providing the "official" version of blastcore

Don't put words in our mouth that are simply not true

[zooloo75 834]

We DO respect OpticalSnares work, otherwise we wouldn't have gone through the trouble of even MAKING it into a patch pbo in the first place, we'd have just left it as is, and distributed the mod on different channels. We are already showing TREMENDOUS amount of respect by changing our mod just because he has a hissy fit and is actually mad enough to screw over his mod users to spite people who wanna help. We had 2 accounts get banned, 3 questions for help, questions to mod alterations and fix submissions denied before we even STARTED on HopeCore. We complied with his requests even after they left his jurisdiction. We changed the steam workshop submission 4 times to comply with his demands, we changed our armaholic submission and THEN it was falsely flagged and reported. We even stopped working with it on github ( for now ) because of it. Don't even believe for ONE second we don't have respect for his work.

We did EVERYTHING, spent hours and days just navigating this jungle.

We could've just went ahead, showed him the middlefinger and saved us the trouble of dealing with him, but we didn't

And for your information, I'm a software developer with over 15 years of industry experience working in IT and R&D.

We never "took Blastcore", added 2-3 lines of code ( we're at 5000+ lines of code currently ), and we never named it Blastcore either, it was always either hopecore or Blastcore a3g with clear indications of who the original author is, where to find him and an explanation that this is a patch with a dependency of the original addon ( or how it used to be: modification of the original work ).

We never once

- claimed to be the original author of blastcore

- claimed to provide the original version of blastcore

- mention that we're "official" or that we're providing the "official" version of blastcore

Don't put words in our mouth that are simply not true

You have 15 years of experience and all you can do is leech off of other people?

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[nodunit 397]

I'm flattered that my use of words distracted you from the argument. Perhaps a lesson over being easy to let trolls walk all over us would help...

Like most of us, we're sick of letting unappreciative people take advantage of legal loopholes in order to justify their wrongdoings.

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk

It's less about letting people walk over you and more about getting a topic shut down and yourself banned for a few days.

[zooloo75 834]

It's less about letting people walk over you and more about getting a topic shut down and yourself banned for a few days.

If you honestly think I care about getting banned, you're wrong. I am expressing what other modders are too shy or afraid to say.

If telling stupid people that they're stupid is against the rules, then please, report me and ban me for good as I'd rather not partake in such a community that feels everyone, regardless of their behavior, should be respected.

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[PuFu 4600]

We DO respect OpticalSnares work, otherwise we wouldn't have gone through the trouble of even MAKING it into a patch pbo in the first place, we'd have just left it as is, and distributed the mod on different channels. We are already showing TREMENDOUS amount of respect by changing our mod just because he has a hissy fit and is actually mad enough to screw over his mod users to spite people who wanna help. We had 2 accounts get banned, 3 questions for help, questions to mod alterations and fix submissions denied before we even STARTED on HopeCore. We complied with his requests even after they left his jurisdiction. We changed the steam workshop submission 4 times to comply with his demands, we changed our armaholic submission and THEN it was falsely flagged and reported. We even stopped working with it on github ( for now ) because of it. Don't even believe for ONE second we don't have respect for his work.

We did EVERYTHING, spent hours and days just navigating this jungle.

And that is indeed, at least in my eyes, worth some clapping, although, again, if you took the patch road from the begging, it would have saved you the days and the troubles.

We never "took Blastcore", added 2-3 lines of code ( we're at 5000+ lines of code currently ),

i'm sorry, i thought it was an obvious exaggeration on my part(no pun intended), while trying to prove a point.

and we never named it Blastcore either, it was always either hopecore or Blastcore a3g with clear indications of who the original author is, where to find him and an explanation that this is a patch with a dependency of the original addon ( or how it used to be: modification of the original work ).

It wasn't the case for the name and files on the steam workshop: It showed as Blastcore (or blastcore+/blastcore a3g or alike), the description was an obvious rant towards the original author (which was indeed named, in a very negative context) that was "unwilling or incapable" to provide the "needed" fixes, and updates, and the comments from HJ were on the same page

We never once

- claimed to be the original author of blastcore

- claimed to provide the original version of blastcore

- mention that we're "official" or that we're providing the "official" version of blastcore

Don't put words in our mouth that are simply not true

You said your provide the "proper" blastcore experience ("proper" might nit have been used as such, but that was the general idea)..for the rest, read the above.

[Cephel 10]

You have 15 years of experience and all you can do is leech off of other people?

Building upon other people's work is a core fundament of software development. People benefit from other people's work on a daily basis. Starting from the operating system you currently use, the browser you use to access this website, continuing with the webserver software, the database backend and the server scripting software that is being used to present you this website, down to the standard and character encoding that allows you type on your keyboard and have it be translated into readable letters ( and the layout of thereof ), finishing with the packet format, the protocol and the cable and server architecture that allows you to transmit these keystrokes to write this snappy response to me

Arma 3 itself would not be possible without literally hundreds of people who did groundwork to provide rendering pipelines, physics libraries and programming languages themselves. Everything in computer science is building on what other people did before you. Writing all that off as "leeching off of other people" displays a criminally narrow view of how the world works.

[zooloo75 834]

Building upon other people's work is a core fundament of software development. People benefit from other people's work on a daily basis. Starting from the operating system you currently use, the browser you use to access this website, continuing with the webserver software, the database backend and the server scripting software that is being used to present you this website, down to the standard and character encoding that allows you type on your keyboard and have it be translated into readable letters ( and the layout of thereof ), finishing with the packet format, the protocol and the cable and server architecture that allows you to transmit these keystrokes to write this snappy response to me

Arma 3 itself would not be possible without literally hundreds of people who did groundwork to provide rendering pipelines, physics libraries and programming languages themselves. Everything in computer science is building on what other people did before you. Writing all that off as "leeching off of other people" displays a criminally narrow view of how the world works.

You think listing out a Computer Science lesson I learned in my freshman year at college is going to justify your cause?

We're not talking about how computers work or how server-side webpages work.

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[PuFu 4600]

If you honestly think I care about getting banned, you're wrong. I am expressing what other modders are too shy or afraid to say.

If telling stupid people that they're stupid is against the rules, then please, report me and ban me for good as I'd rather not partake in such a community that feels everyone, regardless of their behavior, should be respected.

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listen lad: you should take this a bit less personal, partly because it doesn't concern you directly (i understand the frustration though). But while foul language is allowed (and i am glad because of that), it shouldn't be directed towards another person, not only because it shows a lack of civilization on your part, but firstly because it makes you look like dick, and it fades away any reasonable arguments following that.

I strongly think that if you need to curse in order to make yourself heard or to prove a point, you lost before you started. And that is coming from a 28 year old 6year long university year master graduate owning his business, that swears like a drunken sailor in private for no reason at all.

now that everyone vented can we get back on the fucking(see what i did here) subject?