Ifrit and Hunter - Armour Change

[ToejaM 1]

Was this intentional?

Ifrits and Hunters have insane armour now.

It takes around 9 Lynx shots to take out a tyre, 15 to disable the engine.

I've put around 3x150 Zafir bullets into the engine and it was still standing, though disabled.

It takes around 18 ABR shots to kill the driver through the front wind screen.

I know there were some changes to vehicles but this seems like an accident?

[jgbtl292 0]

It takes around 9 Lynx shots to take out a tyre

why not its a tactical armored vehikle and use run flat tires. shots on the tire from a rifle or 20mm are normal usless . you can drive with a complette downed tire not very fast but you can drive.

at gives a very nice video from afganistan from a fennek ( strider ) and a fuchs APC with a rbg hit on his wheel. he drive safety back to base ;)

I've put around 3x150 Zafir bullets into the engine and it was still standing, though disabled.

and now ? i have never see in real or videos that a car exploding by rifle fire. and no fire from diesel fuel by rifle fire to ;)

It takes around 18 ABR shots to kill the driver through the front wind screen.

standard calibre - for a protect window why not. 18 maby a little to much bit is ok

but for a damaged engine would not be white smoke bad. as an indicator for " i have hit - engine is down"

Edited April 14, 2014 by JgBtl292

[drebin052 324]

Well maybe now they are actually the Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles that they are supposed to be instead of being larger, slower and ATGM-less offroads.

Although the Ifrit's windows being resistant to 8-9 12.7mm rounds is a bit silly (APDS still penetrates in one round). Sniping drivers just got so much more harder.

[heavygunner 179]

These changes are awesome. Now the tires don't explode anymore while slighty touching atree or a stone. :)

[pils 49]

Was this intentional?

Ifrits and Hunters have insane armour now.

It takes around 9 Lynx shots to take out a tyre, 15 to disable the engine.

I've put around 3x150 Zafir bullets into the engine and it was still standing, though disabled.

It takes around 18 ABR shots to kill the driver through the front wind screen.

I know there were some changes to vehicles but this seems like an accident?

Insane?

They can now finally be called MRAPs. The Devs finally got them right. I haven't tested them yet, but reports sound really good.

I don't know the specific parameters of the real life models (and they may vary depending on purpose and other things anyway), but being overal very resistant up to 7.62mm makes absolutely sense.

18x 7.62 mm beats the glass? Should be 30+.

http://cnet3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2009/10/01/214217d2-f4d6-11e2-8c7c-d4ae52e62bcc/14e1d6898f37c5a55f0b1deb0d133a02/MATV01.jpg

Just look how thick that glass is.

Edited April 14, 2014 by pils

[[BWC] Westen 10]

I really like the new MRAP's. They've finally been made very hard to take out with small arms fire, which is exactly what they're built to do in real life. I agree that it should probably take fewer .50 cal bullets to take out the windows, but if anything the number of 7.62mm rounds should be increased. The new tires are great, they don't explode when I come just a few inches off the ground any more.

The offroad pickup needs some work on its tires still. They explode way too easily when you're driving it hard through hilly terrain.

[ToejaM 1]

Ahh I understand, because BIS said so anti material rifles shouldnt affect it and bullets that are clearly pentrating and hitting the floor behind the wheels they're hitting shouldnt completely rip the wheels off, its ok they're run flat.

I also never said anything about shooting the glass with a Lynx, which oddly enough kills the occupant in one shot.

You can literally fly this head on into a tree at over 100km an hour and drive away from it, thats ok the tree was in ambush mode.

Hello fanboy1, this is realitycheck. lima charlie, out.

:rolleyes:

[mjolnir66 48]

Ahh I understand, because BIS said so anti material rifles shouldnt affect it and bullets that are clearly pentrating and hitting the floor behind the wheels they're hitting shouldnt completely rip the wheels off, its ok they're run flat.

I also never said anything about shooting the glass with a Lynx, which oddly enough kills the occupant in one shot.

You can literally fly this head on into a tree at over 100km an hour and drive away from it, thats ok the tree was in ambush mode.

Hello fanboy1, this is realitycheck. lima charlie, out.

:rolleyes:

We'll just go ahead and forget that it is a 15 ton vehicle that is actually only slightly bigger than a standard SUV then shall we. Because all that extra weight has no bearing on how it withstands impacts and enemy fire.

[ToejaM 1]

You do realise that more weight means that at higher speeds it would have a huge chance to crumple under its own weight and inertia, it certainly wouldnt walk away with all components white but we'll leave it at that due to the circumstances presented in this thread.

[k0rd 3]

but for a damaged engine would not be white smoke bad. as an indicator for " i have hit - engine is down"

I would love to see this for damage that wouldn't really explode the vehicle. I mean, it's satisfying to turn vehicles into fireballs with small arms fire, but a smart smoke effect would really add to immersion.

[Westonsammy 1]

I think the OP was under the misconception that the Hunter/Ifrit were meant to be more like Humvees and UAZ's than MRAPs

For those that don't know, MRAPs are specifically meant to absorb small arms fire, unlike humvees and other such vehicles, which are mainly just for transport or mounting weapons like ATGM's on.

Although ArmA does take it a wee bit too far, like with the 18 ABR shots to take out the window, it is pretty accurate as to how it would be able to protect troops.

Now if only we could get that sort of damage model on the Tempest...

[jgbtl292 0]

now im sure that will come - i see bis tuned the game now on the right sides - very good ^^ i have new hope : D

[mjolnir66 48]

I think the OP was under the misconception that the Hunter/Ifrit were meant to be more like Humvees and UAZ's than MRAPs

For those that don't know, MRAPs are specifically meant to absorb small arms fire, unlike humvees and other such vehicles, which are mainly just for transport or mounting weapons like ATGM's on.

Although ArmA does take it a wee bit too far, like with the 18 ABR shots to take out the window, it is pretty accurate as to how it would be able to protect troops.

Now if only we could get that sort of damage model on the Tempest...

Why is that too far. I've seen what happens when a full power 7.62 round hits an armoured piece of glass such as the ones on MRAPs. You get a small cracked area in the first layer and no other damage. I can perfectly understand it taking 18 or more hits to break it.

[quickvenge 10]

Their damage model is really over the top now. They are basically as good as tanks. At first I liked the damage model as it was more immune to small arms fire.

Then I did some Pawnee missions. They are harder to kill with DAR rockets. Prior to Zeus release one direct hit blew one up, and 2-3 indirect hits blew one up. It now takes 4 to 6 rockets direct hits to disable them now, and over 20 direct hits to blow one up. Indirect splash damage with DARs good luck. I completely leveled a building which an Ifrit was in front of, and the Ifrit continued to fire on me. My rockets basically hit the Ifrit and just to the front of it. On a good note a DAGR will still one hit kill them if it hits though.

Someone was complaining on Steam they couldn't complete the "vehicles showcase" mission. So I ran it twice. It is now really hard to disable the hunters in the courtyard. The 40mm grenade launcher on the hunter now takes a lot more grenades to disable a single hunter in the courtyard. You can't blow one up without running out of ammo. I always thought it was too easy before, but now its just way too resistant. Second time I ran it I really abused the stolen hunter. I rammed into the civi pickup truck driving down the road head on. It totaled the pickup, and my hunter didn't even get any kind of damage from it. I then drove through the road block hitting the parked hunter and again no damage. Then drove into the courtyard to ensure I didn't miss and opened up one by one on each hunter. I ran out of ammo on the third one, and all I did was disable the other two by flattening two of their tires. I had to get out and shoot out the last tires on the last hunter.

[byku 13]

...

I agree with the fack that DARs are a tiny bit weak right now, with the rest i'm very fine with ;). Finally a proper MRAPs.

[maturin 12]

The chances of surviving a shaped charge DAGR strike are really quite good. The vehicle should be fucked up, but MRAPs are designed to make penetrating RPG hits about as lethal as a shotgun blast.

By the way, have they removed that fuel tank retardation? Can we brew them up with pistol hits to the undercarriage anymore?

[quickvenge 10]

I was okay not blowing it up with the Grenades but just blowing the tires took too many. They need to up the grenades on that mission to complete it from range. Try it yourself its kind of frustrating now. The AI doesn't even shoot at you anymore.

As far ramming the truck at speed head on. Sure I'll destroy the truck, but physics dictates I should take some damage. Plus ramming another hunter should result in my hunter getting damaged.

[pils 49]

Why is that too far. I've seen what happens when a full power 7.62 round hits an armoured piece of glass such as the ones on MRAPs. You get a small cracked area in the first layer and no other damage. I can perfectly understand it taking 18 or more hits to break it.

Jep, the glass should be able to take even more. See the videos of my post above. That glass in the vids took several dozens of 5.56 and 7.62.

---------- Post added at 21:52 ---------- Previous post was at 21:39 ----------

Their damage model is really over the top now. They are basically as good as tanks. At first I liked the damage model as it was more immune to small arms fire.

Then I did some Pawnee missions. They are harder to kill with DAR rockets. Prior to Zeus release one direct hit blew one up, and 2-3 indirect hits blew one up. It now takes 4 to 6 rockets direct hits to disable them now, and over 20 direct hits to blow one up. Indirect splash damage with DARs good luck. I completely leveled a building which an Ifrit was in front of, and the Ifrit continued to fire on me. My rockets basically hit the Ifrit and just to the front of it. On a good note a DAGR will still one hit kill them if it hits though.

Someone was complaining on Steam they couldn't complete the "vehicles showcase" mission. So I ran it twice. It is now really hard to disable the hunters in the courtyard. The 40mm grenade launcher on the hunter now takes a lot more grenades to disable a single hunter in the courtyard. You can't blow one up without running out of ammo. I always thought it was too easy before, but now its just way too resistant. Second time I ran it I really abused the stolen hunter. I rammed into the civi pickup truck driving down the road head on. It totaled the pickup, and my hunter didn't even get any kind of damage from it. I then drove through the road block hitting the parked hunter and again no damage. Then drove into the courtyard to ensure I didn't miss and opened up one by one on each hunter. I ran out of ammo on the third one, and all I did was disable the other two by flattening two of their tires. I had to get out and shoot out the last tires on the last hunter.

We should differ between damage from crashing and damage from gunfire/explosives. Protection from gunfire/explosives is fine now. The 40 mm grenades are in general too weak against vehicles and afaik they got tweaked in the latest dev patch. But that's a 40 mm grenade issue and not a MRAP issue.

The MRAPs may be too resistant against crashs (haven't tested it yet), but that's a general Arma 3 problem. Arma 3 has no detailed damage model when it comes to crashing vehicles. But that's ok since we don't have super computers. Maybe in Arma 6.

[squirrel0311 16]

I haven't tested it out every aspect but so far I'm liking the changes.

As others have said I see nothing wrong with the windshield being able to stop 18 rounds of .308. It sounds like a lot but then again I know for a fact that old 40mm laminated glass will stop 6 rounds of 7.62x54....With the advancements in technology...even looking at the stuff we have right now I'd say it's pretty plausible. I'm much happer with it this way than when you could shoot out 2 tires and the windows would disappear.

9 Lynx shots sounds a little much but it depends on what you were shooting at... It also depends if they were hitting in the same spot.

As for the rockets....Were you using AP rockets or HE?

I shot an MAT-V (Hunter) Today with an RPG-42 and blew it up in two hits...In fact I'm pretty sure the first one missed, I had no idea the drop was that bad on them.

[quickvenge 10]

They use to take crash damage before. I know as I tend to play purely in first person, and I have hit many a things before. :) It was too soft before. You hit the littlest thing it would break things. But its now swung completely the other way.

Rockets are HE variant as that is all the Pawnee has by default. DAGR are basically guided hydras, so not sure why they would make the damage model different from a DAR to DAGR. I always thought it silly that direct hits from DAGRs can destroy armor but DARs can't. One can argue DAGR aren't real anti-tank weapons, and I'll agree with you. BLUFOR needs a real attack helicopter, or at least be able to load the current one with real anti-armor missiles.

[squirrel0311 16]

Rockets are HE variant as that is all the Pawnee has by default. DAGR are basically guided hydras, so not sure why they would make the damage model different from a DAR to DAGR. I always thought it silly that direct hits from DAGRs can destroy armor but DARs can't. One can argue DAGR aren't real anti-tank weapons, and I'll agree with you. BLUFOR needs a real attack helicopter, or at least be able to load the current one with real anti-armor missiles.

Oh you were in a Pawnee... that makes sense.

I guess Arma is substituting them as actual Hellfire missiles.... Maybe they're supposed to be packed with some kind of new highly explosive compound that allows it to kill or disable a tank in one hit. I was thinking the DAGRs weren't the real life ones but instead were the big missiles hanging on the outside... Those are the AA Missiles though. (Haven't messed with the Attack Helos much)

I think the Blackfoot makes a pretty good Attack Helicopter. The pawnee is more of a Scout/Light Attack than it is a full on Attack helicopter, it should probably avoid going after heavier things in most situations. Locate the enemy and shoot the ants on the ground while the blackfoots handle the heavy junk....

I haven't tried running anything over in the MRAPs yet...might do that tonight.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Squirrel0311
Spelling.....I R GRUNT

[JestersDead 2]

BLUFOR needs a real attack helicopter, or at least be able to load the current one with real anti-armor missiles.

I'm holding out hope that some future patch allows us to select a custom loadout on all the aircraft. An AH-9 with HMG and a couple hellfires would be super sexy.

[the_demongod 31]

I guess Arma is substituting them as actual Hellfire missiles....

I think they have ditched the hellfire idea and traded them for lighter but more numerous light missiles. The Mi-48's missiles are much more similar to hellfires.

[quickvenge 10]

I'm holding out hope that some future patch allows us to select a custom loadout on all the aircraft. An AH-9 with HMG and a couple hellfires would be super sexy.

Kind of funny but someone is making what I requested come true though and he released it yesterday. http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?176304-RWCO-Rotor-Wing-Combat-Overhaul It's in alpha, and we could use a more updated Apache, but I'll take this for now.

So maybe someone will make a custom weapons loader for choppers hint, hint, or I should take the time to learn how to script and just do it myself.

[Bouben 3]

Finally the armoured cars are useful and are able to actually survive trips over the whole island without loosing tires! (with a bit of a luck).

Great changes!