Arma 3 - Lacking Fundemental Commands (to developers)!

[Polaris 1]

I know that this will most likely fall on deaf ears but I thought I'd at the very least make an attempt. Arma 3 has two unique factors in the gaming industry (of similar genres in any case): its scale and its ability to be easily modified. Those two factors permitted DayZ to be made and, in turn, made Arma 2 much, much more successful than it would have otherwise been and drove a ridiculous amount of additional profits to Bohemia. Without those two factors the game would have been a fraction as popular and Arma 3 never would have received nearly as much attention (military simulators aren't exactly a popular mainstream genre which has been proven by the other titles in the series).

As a studio you're currently focusing some of your resources towards Take on Mars, which is niche to say the least and has attracted very few players and even fewer good reviews, and Arma Tactics which is in a pretty similar situation. While you're doing this you're leaving Arma 3 in a state that is extremely difficult create total modifications for. Why do you think you haven't seen that many total modifications so far (even a year after release and despite the contest)? Fundamental commands are lacking, inventory manipulation is a perfect example of this. The inability to add items to containers with attachments/magazines, to add uniforms/vests/backpacks to containers with content (items/magazines), to manipulate a vehicle's container, to add magazines to containers (uniforms, vests, backpacks, vehicles, etc) with specific ammo counts, to drop uniforms/vests/backpacks, etc.

There are tracker requests, authored by some of the best programmers for Arma 3, absolutely begging developers for these fundamental commands. Some of these requests have been open for literally months and some of them almost a year (since the alpha). These are the people who are going to ultimately attract players to the game with the huge array of varied modifications they produce (perhaps even the next DayZ). I'm not sure who is allocating the studio's resources but you really need to look at what you're doing and, quite frankly, the mistakes you're making. Anyone with remote business sense knows to identify the product's assets and focus on them rather than focusing on things like the singleplayer (something the Arma series has never really been about and is definitely not a feature that drives players to it) that should be one of the lowest priorities.

Arma 3 is an absolutely wonderful game and has massive amounts of potential but that potential is being squandered while essential parts of the game simply lack fundamental commands. Focus on getting all of the fundamental commands in and working and focus on making the game more stable and efficient for large numbers of players! They're the two factors that make Arma a success and you need to focus on them! Take the time and fix the modification side of the game, please, even if you only do it for the business advantage (the more modifications available the more players).

Obviously some people will disagree with me but I don't think it takes that much common sense to see that I have a decent point. Nonetheless this is simply a plea to the studio to reprioritise for their sake, the players and the community developers.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Polaris

[roshnak 41]

If you broke that up into paragraphs more people would read it.

[Polaris 1]

If you broke that up into paragraphs more people would read it.

Better? :).

[scajolly 14]

edit: Simultaneous post with OP's update. Nevermind. Mod feel free to delete, can't find the button :I

[Ckrauslo 12]

Too long, on cel phone is hard to read, could you just list what is missing?

[Polaris 1]

Too long, on cel phone is hard to read, could you just list what is missing?

"Fundamental commands are lacking, inventory manipulation is a perfect example of this. The inability to add items to containers with attachments/magazines, to add uniforms/vests/backpacks to containers with content (items/magazines), to manipulate a vehicle's container, to add magazines to containers (uniforms, vests, backpacks, vehicles, etc) with specific ammo counts, to drop uniforms/vests/backpacks, etc."

That's some of the most serious examples.

[Ckrauslo 12]

True, thanks for reducing it, my state is in emergency, so my new pc will not arrive anytime soon

[roshnak 41]

Better? :).

Yep.

It's a well reasoned post that was kind of hidden behind a wall of unreadable text. You make some good points. Unfortunately Arma's development process is relatively opaque right now.

Edited April 12, 2014 by roshnak

[scorch_052 127]

I just want a ragdoll command. It doesnt seem like too much, I just want to make ai fall over, BI. :'(

[Polaris 1]

I'm glad to see that my opinions are shared among a few at least. My post was honestly meant to be constructive criticism and I hope it's being seen that way by any developers that have read it. I have seen japapatramtara making a lot of progress with the inventory commands over the past few months but he really needs to be allowed the time to simply add all the necessary commands (the commands that should have been present since the alpha let alone the release). In my opinion the programming lead needs to sit down, look through the tracker, prioritise commands/areas and then set his team to work. I would much, much rather have all these commands at my disposal than have Zeus (it is a nice feature but it should be SUCH a low priority compared to commands as fundamental as these).

[ohally 26]

agreed +1

[yugoslav 13]

BI has always had a problem with fumbling with their ***** in their hands for initial release. They may even be over stretched with A3, DAYZ and Mars something. But saying that they always seem to pull through, it may take a bit but I'm sure many of these functions will be added. Its just a matter of time at this point, it was the same for A2 Release. We just gotta have hope ;)

Edited April 12, 2014 by Yugoslav

[Yoshi 10]

First, question. You said they need add the ability to drop uniforms/vests/backpacks, etc, but you can already do that, or do you mean give a command to? (please explain this) And for my 2 cents. I think this is a good thing to ask about, imo there are definitely areas of the game that need tweaking, and this topics has definitely outlined one of the biggest issues.

[Polaris 1]

dropWeapon was, until last week, broken. It is now working but there's still no action for dropping uniforms/vests/backpacks/inventory items. You can manually do this to a certain extent but it's certainly not ideal because you can't add attachments/magazines to weapons in a container and you can't add items/magazines to uniforms/vests/backpacks in a container.

[the_demongod 31]

+1, you make some good points. I am continuously amazed at how long it takes (if at all) for feedback tracker posts to even be read, let alone acted on. However, Zeus has had a very positive effect on this, I have noticed that Zeus related issues have been allocated to a few Devs full time, and their involvement in the tracker has been very impressive. I reported an issue and within 2 days it had been reviewed, and a Dev even commented on it. And even when later they decided that it was impossible to implement (had to do with JDAM airstrikes, they used gun runs and missile strikes instead) moricky commented again asking if the current implementation is sufficient, and that he was sorry it couldn't work out. I wish more Devs could do this, maybe be assigned to certain categories of the tracker and actually follow through with fixes, etc. It makes such a huge difference, BI, I hope you know that. Just go to the tracker and set the filter to "Category: Zeus (General, etc)" and see how many issues have been review and assigned, compared to the typically-brown list I am accustomed to seeing.

[phronk 898]

+1 Agreed completely.

The game is great and I respect Bohemia Interactive for making such a great game, but the game needs to be polished. Not expanded upon. Let the modders do that.

Bohemia Interactive should focus on fixing all of the reported bugs, add essential commands for modders and scripters, and lastly the functionality of certain things that they promised to add prior to the Alpha of ArmA 3 (Helicopter fast-roping, dynamic vehicle damage system, better AI navigation and utilization of buildings, nuclear submarines, other weapons/vehicles, and so much more). I personally find it reckless and unresponsible to start working on several other games while leaving your customers with a half-finished game that many paid full price for. Focus on finishing ArmA 3 and polishing it. Even if it takes 2 years, get it done. THEN work on the other games.

[Polaris 1]

I simply don't think BI realise that they're shooting themselves in the foot by not spending the time polishing Arma 3 for developers. Simply by adding towing (already implemented in VBS2) it allows the creation of SO many types of vehicle that simply aren't possible now. By implementing all the fundamental inventory commands they allow developers to completely control the inventory system and manipulate it to any degree they desire. I agree that Zeus is a great concept but it really shouldn't have been prioritised over fundamental commands.

[Westonsammy 1]

Erm... has anyone noticed this is in the wrong section of the forums? Mods? Its been here for 2 days now...

[vilas 477]

Why do you think you haven't seen that many total modifications so far (even a year after release and despite the contest)?

do you want answer from me as a moder ?

what most stopped me from Arma3 ?

it was not despite contets, it was due to contest,

cause big money for 1 guy, while OFP, Arma was dozens of modders doing for fun, no money, no rats race (competition vs friendship issue, if someone is competee with me, i do not help him, friendship is in hobby, in business there is no remorse and no sorrow), so you are making topic and asking why, so as a moder i can answer ? for me it is not "despite" but "due",

i know some moders that share my view in 100%, they do not like contest for big money,

what other stops from modding to A3 ?

as far as i know all selections must be renamed, OFP, Arma1, Arma2 were using similar Czech language names, so you had one model config made several years ago and you were polishing model on and on, evenually adding new animation like destruction of wheels etc.

now it seems ALL model must be reworked,

i have thousand models (all my mods probably will give 1000 models) , now imagine i must open EVERY model and change "levy predni" to "wheel_1_1" and "pravy predni" to "wheel_1_2" and levy zadni to wheel_2_1 and pravy zadni to wheel_2_2 and L svetlo to Light_0_1, and P svetlo to Light_0_2 and ... and .. and.. (i do not even know names of selections i should use , i know Czech since 2004 and OFP, zadni svetlo , brzdovi svelto, zbytek, sklo)

it is pain in the ass to do it, i would spent 1000 hours on importing P85, it would take me year of every day work to import my models, without improving in them anything, just changing selection, changing proxies etc.

Geometry must be changed, proxies, names, memory points, moreover, i must rewrite model.cfg cause now dampers require new definitions

i would deliver the same content that you already have in Arma2 (by quality) in 2015, while there might be Arma4 upcoming ?

how much it takes to import from Arma1 to Arma2 ? few seconds, change geometry LOD, add head proxy to solider, add weight to vehicle (more mass )

changing wheels to be destructible was just copy-paste some lines to model.cfg and add 4proxies , than binarize all no problem,

changing to OA FLIR ? just adding line to RVMAT

changing soliders to OA ? just add proxy of backpack

import of model from Arma1 to Arma2 to Operation Arrowhead was taking few minutes , now import to Arma3 the same model would not take minutes, might take hour (if set mirrors) without mirrors (if you know how to do such import ) it would take 2 dozen of minutes, half hour ?

okay, in P85 i have 400 or 500 models, anyway even if i worked 4 hours everyday i am able to give such pack in half year than i must write configs etc. etc.

after i would spend half year of hard work on import and than i can face for example Dayz SA modable in 2015 and my mods are again going to be stolen by Dayz community retards to monetize them ?

so if Dayz SA won't be moddable, hugh, lets say optimistic, but anyway , all model need to be redone, it really can take lot of time,

i should at least import few and count time by clock, to see how much it takes, than when i would count it by models, you would see it is looooooooot of work , and than i spend half year and see another guy taking 200 000 Euro cause he made another zombie or what ?

so basic problem is afaik (or maybe i am wrong, than correct me) lack of compatibility between A2 and A3 in models (new features, super, nice, but hell, renaming all model parts is pain in the ass)

if Czech names can left and models gonna function (after changing proxies, small changes required in Geo and Memory) than i am ready for A3 (although i do not like candy look of Altis)

can you imagine reworking all names just because of lack of compatibility ? there is no new "feature", no new quality, no new look, there is only hard countless "rename, rename, rename"

and in result after year of work some moaning kids, newbies in community will say "this model is ugly, in BF 5 there is better" ? i wish Czech names working

hexediting mass of models will not help, lenght of string is not the same , i can hex edit 100 models with "12345" to "ABCDE" but not "levy prostredni" to "wheel_3_1" cause it differs

i can try import few things with remaining Czech names to see if it works at all with Czech names, but hell, even lights must be set to light by engine using selection, with wrong name of light selection light doesn't work,

if you count such job and hire someone 10 USD/hour to it and it could take 1000 hours, you must pay 10 000 USD for him after half year of boring job

Edited April 14, 2014 by vilas

[R0adki11 3949]

Erm... has anyone noticed this is in the wrong section of the forums? Mods? Its been here for 2 days now...

We all do have a real life as well, please feel free to report a post if you think its in the wrong place.

Thread Moved :292:

[Polaris 1]

I can't really speak to modelling in any great detail, I know Arma 3 has been a reasonably significant leap from Arma 2 but mainly because of PhysX. Fuzzy, our lead modeller, is immensely enjoying modelling vehicles for Arma 3 because of the addition of PhysX and the vast improvements to materials. I can only speak from a programming perspective.

Regarding the contest, I think it's pretty obvious to everyone that the series would be significantly less popular without modifications and I'm sure Bohemia recognised that which is why they decided to create the contest. Personally I would have much rather Bohemia used that money to hire an additional handful of programmers dedicated to fixing all the issues with Arma 3 and implement all the commands I've referenced in this thread and the many more on the tracker that I haven't. As a development team we've made the decision not to enter the contest despite the money we're investing into our modification. The main reason for this being that our motivations for developing aren't financially based. We're simply trying our best to create something as high quality as possible that people will enjoy playing.

[vilas 477]

what would be good to see in A3 from modder perspective:

- backward compatibility (selections)

how to do it ?

there is in engine class car, yes? there is carX for physicsx , yes?

why not another class carA2 with Czech language selections so Arma2 models do not require changing all selections ?

[Sneakson 1]

Who the hell reported OP? Seems nearly each and every thread is reported by someone since a few weeks back.

[dav 22]

Agreed,

I don't play the rather over ambitious and poorly optimised campaign, I don't play with the overly ambitious Zeus nor do I play the monotonous multiplayer. I just use the editor and would like a UI overhaul. It's the exact same as Arma 2, cut and paste.