Weapon tests

[pooroldspike 129]

EDIT MAY 2017-: this thread is now 3 years old so don't take it as gospel, as various updates have probably invalidated many of the tests by now.

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I just wanted to find out what weapons will hurt what targets, and whether AI bots will engage on their own initiative, so I set up a series of tests in the Editor on Regular difficulty level with no mods or addons of any kind, and below are the results.

I'll begin with ATGM's and work through tank guns, GMG's, light cannons, HMG's, grenades, mortars and arty etc later.

Let me know if your ingame observations differ from mine, or if you want to make any comments, after-dinner speeches or death threats etc.

[pooroldspike 129]

ATGM's

No tank is immune to ATGM's,they'll all either bail or burn after taking one or more hits depending on tank type and whether it's hit in front/side/rear.

Bot missilemen will always fire, usually only one shot at front armour but will fire several times against side/rear.

And of course because ATGM's can kill main battle tanks, they sure as heck can do the same to lighter AFV's and vehicles.

Eye candy from the tests-

Missile Specialist(AT) Titan MPRL Compact in action. Both NATO and CSAT use Titans.

NATO Rifleman(AT) PCML

CSAT Rifleman(AT) RPG-42 Alamut

Edited May 4, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[maturin 12]

It's not as simple as that, because the tanks have hitzones now. If you get a weak spot, you can kill a T-100 with a single RPG (unguided) to the front. And last night I cooked a T-100 with one RPG to the rear turret.

[pooroldspike 129]

Please list where the weak spots are on each tank..:)

Problem with lockable ATGM's like the Titan is that they might auto-lock onto a spot that's not weak, or is there a way to force them to lock onto a weak spot?

I've tried firing without a lock but it's usually impossible to keep the crosshairs steady enough to choose your spot even when kneeling (the missile rides the beam down the hairs).

[pooroldspike 129]

Pic from the tests: firer's view of missile hitting tank-

More test pics showing the missiles in flight a split second before hitting the tanks-

T-100

M2A1 Slammer

M2A4 Slammer UP

MBT-52 Kuma

Edited April 2, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[alinixwissen 10]

Please list where the weak spots are on each tank..:)

Problem with lockable ATGM's like the Titan is that they might auto-lock onto a spot that's not weak, or is there a way to force them to lock onto a weak spot?

I've tried firing without a lock but it's usually impossible to keep the crosshairs steady enough to choose your spot even when kneeling (the missile rides the beam down the hairs).

Slammer(both):

underside of the tank (1 AT mine is enough to bail the crew other tanks take atleast 2 the Kuma takes 3)

crew hatched (at the rear of the tank)

T-100:

rear and side turret

structure between the turret and the main body

Top of the turret

Kuma:

top of the turret

side of the turret

structure between the turret and the main body

no garantee for that info but thats what i have experienced

[pooroldspike 129]

ARTILLERY v TANKS

The test tanks are T-100's, I'll subject them to barrages from 3 x Mk60 mortars, 3 x 155mm Scorchers and 3 x MLRS vehicles.

In comes the Mk60 mortar 82mm calibre barrage from 550 metres behind me.

After calling in repeated barrages over several turns, none of the tanks are burning despite the nice tight pattern..

..but some are presumably damaged or perhaps knocked out because some crews have bailed-

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Now the next test with fresh tanks and 155mm Scorcher barrages firing standard HE shells from 3kms behind me.

After repeated barrages the result is the same as for the mortars, no burners but some crews have bailed.

Note the wide scatter pattern due to the 155's firing from 3kms away.

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Okay, for the final test we'll let the MLRS strut its stuff.

Bingo! even though they're firing from 3kms away, most of the 230mm rockets arrive in a tight concentrated pattern and begin toasting the T-100's, some are bursting into flames even though they've not taken a direct hit-

Scratch nine flat-tops, the MLRS's handiwork..

SUMMARY-

The MLRS is the big tank-killer, it doesn't even need a direct hit to burn tanks.

The 155mm Scorcher can damage them and force crews to bail, but its wide scatter means getting a direct hit is unlikely, and in all the smoke its impossible to tell if a direct hit has been scored anyway. I'll test its guided shells later.

The Mk 60 mortar can also damage tanks and force bails, but it's impossible to see if any direct hits are scored and what damage they do.

Edited April 11, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[pooroldspike 129]

M4 Scorcher 155mm Cluster shells v T-100's

They can hurt tanks and force crew bails.

This is a single shell in action, it released its submunitions while still airborne to stomp a tight footprint..

and start some crews a-running..

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As regards Guided shells, I'm not having much luck with them in tests, they're supposed to have moveable fins and be guided onto the coordinates via an uplink to a GPS satellite.

I order them in like any other HE shell then leave them to get on with the job, but only rarely do they hit the target, they often impact up to a few hundred metres away, maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Laser-guided shells are slightly more reliable but are nothing to write home about as they often miss by a long way even though I'm illuminating the target, so again maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Edited April 5, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[pils 49]

Is this main branch of dev branch?

Because afaik the Devs overhauled the armor completely in the latest dev branch versions. And I really like it. Armor is now a little more resistant to AT missiles and that's good news. I'm pretty satisfied after some quick testing, even though I'd of course prefer some more accurate system rather than the health system. But it seems parameters are a lot better now.

Also good job on the mortars, because mortars can't hurt tanks anymore except the tracks. That change is a bit older because it's already on the main branch.

Only thing I recognized lately is, that tank tracks are a bit too vulnerable to .50cal fire. AI tanks are very easy to take out just by firing at the tracks with .50cal. The AI will bail out as soon as the tracks are damaged. So you can take out AI tanks with the HMG too easily.

[pooroldspike 129]

Is this main branch of dev branch?

Because afaik the Devs overhauled the armor completely in the latest dev branch versions.....

Only thing I recognized lately is, that tank tracks are a bit too vulnerable to .50cal fire. AI tanks are very easy to take out just by firing at the tracks with .50cal. The AI will bail out as soon as the tracks are damaged..

Just to clarify, as I said in the first post all my tests are with vanilla Arma3 straight out of the box and updated to 1.14 without any addons or mods of any kind, i don't know nothing bout dev branches whatever they are..:)

Thanks for mentioning the HMG v tracks thing, it sounds unrealistic and I ran the following tests to confirm it-

HMG 50-cals vs AFV's

T-100:- that's me on the 50-cal on the left. I also placed 3 AI bot 50-cals to see what they'd do but they just sat there forever without firing, obviously they don't know how vulnerable tank tracks are.

Then as soon as I began firing at the left-hand track as in the pic, the crew bailed after just 3 seconds!

Kamysh:- this time the bots opened up immediately but they weren't firing at its tracks or the crew would have bailed after just 3 seconds.

It brewed after about 30 seconds and the crew bailed-

Kamysh again:- I removed the bots and just left myself on the map and targetted the track. Bingo! the crew bailed after 3 seconds-

Conclusions-

1- 50-cals shouldn't be able to force bails by firing at tank/APC tracks, so it definitely needs fixing.

2- I'm not an expert on Kamysh armour, but I should imagine it's possible in the real world for 50-cals to brew light armour as we saw in the tests.

AI bots will open up on the Kamysh as we saw and eventually brew it, but we know they don't fire at its tracks or it'd have forced an early crew bail.

Incidentally in another test I removed the bots and fired at the Kamysh front armour (not at its tracks) with my own 50-cal, and it took around 2 minutes of sustained firing to make it brew.

PS- if noobs are wondering why the targets never fired back or scooted off, I removed all their ammo and fuel in the editor, managed to think of that..:)

Also, I tend to use lowish graphics settings for tests so that I can see trajectories, ricochets, impacts and tracers etc better without being obscured by vegetation.

Edited April 11, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[five_seven5-7 56]

i never understand the bailout system, it happens the same with the tyre damage. Since when destroying an APC tyres results in abandoning the vehicle when this still have a mounting weapon?

If the tracks are down the crew still can use the tanks as a fixed turret.

PS: Loved the last screen resolution looks like a DOS Arma Version / Poseidon

[kremator 1065]

Yes destroyed tyres/tracks shouldnt cause a bail.

[Tonci87 163]

Yes destroyed tyres/tracks shouldnt cause a bail.

Definately. I hate that they bail as soon as you damage the tracks or tires.

[pooroldspike 129]

Will Grenadier bots fire Grenade Launchers against T-100? Answer= no

My 3 bot Grenadier mates leg it without firing, they must know better than to mess with a T-100..

Edited May 6, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[pooroldspike 129]

40mm Grenade Launcher against Kamysh hull

The ammo crates contain reload rounds, it's me against the beast..

Getting a hit can be tricky, in this view you have to place the white floating reticle circle way down on the ground like this to get a near-horizontal trajectory at this close range-

Splat, I hit it with a total of 16 shells but the crew never bailed and it never burned..

Exactly the same with 16 side shots, they had no effect either..

Edited May 6, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[pooroldspike 129]

Rifle vs Kamysh optics

1- Commanders optics (Day/NV/IR)

2- Gunners optics (Day/NV/IR)

3- Drivers visor (Day/NV)

I fired around 100 rifle rounds into each one in turn,then boarded the vehicle to sniff around (I'd set it as Empty in the editor).In this pic I'm shooting at the Gunners optic..

Shots into the Commanders optics and Drivers visor had no effect, they continued functioning perfectly..

Around 30 shots into the Gunners optic put the gun out of action and made it droop like this! I got on board and found it couldn't be raised, and its damage panel was bright red.

Conclusion: Ordinary rifles can put a Kamysh's gun out of action by shooting out its single eye

Edited April 11, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[pooroldspike 129]

Rifleman vs T-100 optics

1- Commanders optics (two 'eyes' one above the other, Day/NV/IR)

2- I don't know what this is

3- Gunners optics (Day/NV/IR)

4- Drivers visor (Day/NV)

After emptying multiple rifle magazines into the Commanders two optical eyes, his machine gun drooped as below. I got on board to confirm and found it was locked at this downward angle and couldn't be raised. His optics were also locked downward, meaning he couldn't look around and was virtually blind.

I then shot up optics 2/3/4 but it had no effect, all the vision modes still worked and I could fire the main gun..

Conclusions:-rifle fire against the commanders optics can disable his MG and optics, but the other optics are too tough to be hurt

Edited April 11, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[nicolasroger 11]

interesting tests

what about and HE grenade in the optics?

[pooroldspike 129]

40mm HE Grenade launcher vs T-100 optics

The stage is set:- me and crates of reload ammo..

Hits on Gunners optics= no effect.

After splattering it with a number of shells I climbed aboard to check and found the optics and the gun still worked perfectly..

Hits on Drivers visor= no effect.

I checked and it was still bright and clear to see through..

Hits on Commanders optics= knocked his HMG out of action, it drooped and I couldn't raise it after climbing aboard to try. His optics were also locked downward and he was therefore as good as blind..

The Commanders disabled MG..

Edited May 6, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[pooroldspike 129]

50-cal HMG vs T-100 optics

I emptied belt after belt into each of the optics in turn, and the results were exactly the same as for Rifle fire and Grenade launcher fire, namely only the Commanders optics were damaged, resulting in a disabled drooping MG, and his optics uselessly locked to the droop..

The Gunners optics were not affected, the main gun could still fire normally, and neither was the drivers visor affected.

Here the gunners optic is getting it. I later targetted the Commanders and Drivers optics..

Edited May 6, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[Bee8190 10]

Interesting results with the 40mm. I wonder if the lynx anti material sniper rifle could be the only weapon damaging the drivers optics and whether it would be the same for blue and red armor?

[pooroldspike 129]

GM6 12.7mm Lynx sniper rifle against tank optics

It can be picked up from an empty 'Specialist Weapons (CSAT)' crate-

I selected APDS rounds which are armour-piercing discarding sabot. You have to drop standard rounds because it's easy to get them mixed up..

The Lynx is a nice bit of kit, you can also get a scope for it from the crate if you like..

I scattered crates around for reloads..

And targetted the T-100's Gunner, Driver and Commander optics.

Here the gunners optics are taking 25 hits but the shots had no effect, I climbed aboard and the gun could fire and move perfectly, and the optics were unscratched.

Same with the drivers visor, 25 shots had no effect.

But after about only 10 shots into the Commanders optics, his HMG drooped like this, I climbed aboard and found it was locked in this position, so were his optics, making him blind and unable to look around..

For good measure I then placed this Panther and hit it 25 times in the side armour with APDS but they had no effect, I climbed aboard and it could be driven around normally..

Conclusions:- The Lynx's results were identical to the earlier Rifle/HMG/Gren launcher tests, namely the T-100's Gunners and Drivers optics can't be hurt, but the Commanders optics can be damaged and lock downward with his HMG, making him unable to look around.

And we shouldn't read too much into the Panther test, maybe its armour was simply too good. Also it was empty, but in a real shooting game maybe the crew would have started to rock n' roll and bailed.

Edited June 24, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[Bee8190 10]

So it'd seem that the devs have yet to configure anything other than the commander turret... Cheers for sharing the results

[pooroldspike 129]

GM6 12.7mm Lynx sniper rifle against Marshall turret

I loaded for bear with 12.7 APDS rounds..

Like a knife through butter! After only about 5 rounds the gun drooped, I climbed aboard and found it was disabled, locked at this downward angle, so presumably the APDS rounds had damaged its mechanism.

It also drooped when I put a live crew aboard and opened fire in another test, so maybe the gunner himself was hurt.

For comparison I shot at the turret with 60 rounds from this ordinary 6.5mm rifle but it had no effect; the gun worked fine when I climbed aboard..

Conclusions:- ordinary rifles can't hurt light armour, but the Lynx firing APDS can.

Of course, some light armour is thicker than other light armour, so this test only holds good for vehs around the same thickness as the Marshall.

(PS- if you do testing yourselves against empty vehicles, the gun sometimes doesn't droop even though it may have been put out of action, so climb aboard after every so many shots to find out, and if its damaged it'll droop the instant you get in the gunners seat)

Edited April 14, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[pooroldspike 129]

More general tests against the Marshall for good measure-

Lynx APDS against the turret front goes through it like a knife through butter disabling the gun after only about 5 shots, same as the shots against the turret side did..

6.5mm rifle against commanders optics jammed them after about 10 shots, even into their side like this, effectively blinding the commander..

Likewise, 10x 6.5mm rifle shots in the front of the commanders optics jammed them in the same way..

But about 60x 6.5mm rifle shots into the gunners optics had no effect, the gun could still operate normally..

Edited April 14, 2014 by PoorOldSpike