For those that said

[Akira 0]

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/09/13/mistaken.bombing.ap/index.html

Drum em out of the service!

[joltan 0]

7--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Sep. 13 2002,117)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Drum em out of the service!<span id='postcolor'>

Good to hear!

I'd really like to see the same happening to those who bombed the afghan wedding or villages full of civilians, caused the fuck-up with the chinese embassy in Belgrade or attacked refugee trecks in Kosovo... but then those were just "collateral damages", nothing serious...

BTW: anyone know what happened to the us pilot that cut the cable of an italian cable car - killing several passengers in the incident - some years ago?

[second_draw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (joltan @ Sep. 13 2002,11:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BTW: anyone know what happened to the us pilot that cut the cable of an italian cable car - killing several passengers in the incident - some years ago?<span id='postcolor'>

why did he do that? or rather how did he do it then how?

[Col. Kurtz 0]

I think he was flying low through the Italian Alpines when he accidently slamned into a cable car. I dont no full details, or what happened to him.

Its good to see something is been done about this case, lets just hope they arnt been made scape goats to cover faliure somewere else.

[second_draw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Sep. 13 2002,11:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Its good to see something is been done about this case, lets just hope they arnt been made scape goats to cover faliure somewere else.<span id='postcolor'>

or being pushed onto the sideline till people like me forget

[Supah 0]

The pilot of the EA-6B ( I believe) was on a training excersize in the alps practicing low altitude navigation in the valleys. He apparently made a wrong turn (he really needed to practice) and entered the valley where the cablecar was .... I believe his tail cut the wire, he was trying to avoid it by diving under it but started the dive too late. I dont think he saw the cable (REALLY hard to see) untill it was to late unfortunatly.

[DarkLight 0]

Stuff like this shouldn't be happening

Imagine how the family of those guys must feel....

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

They should not get in trouble! It was a freak accident! If your country did this to U.S. troops yall would feel the same way, and I would still feel the same way.

[ralphwiggum 6]

negligence is not an excuse.

it was heard from months ago that the pilots mentioned in above story were going to be sent to trial. so no surprise.

long time no see Akira.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Duke, i dont know how it is in your country, but if a policeman accidently shoots a civilian, he gets charged for it as well..

So does soldiers here...

[Die Alive 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Espectro @ Sep. 13 2002,11:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Duke, i dont know how it is in your country, but if a policeman accidently shoots a civilian, he gets charged for it as well..

So does soldiers here...<span id='postcolor'>

HA! here in my city, in the 1990s, there were a several cases of cops that killed people by accident, and some of them were in handcuffs when they were shot/"fell off a roof of the police garage"/kicked to death, and none of them went to jail, all of them got like 2 or 3 years of suspend work, and then returned to the police force.

-=Die Alive=-

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Sep. 13 2002,16:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They should not get in trouble! It was a freak accident! If your country did this to U.S. troops yall would feel the same way, and I would still feel the same way.<span id='postcolor'>

If it was a freak accident, they wouldnt be suggesting charges.

It was negligent action on their part. Being a trigger happy cowboy. Something I said back then, which is pretty much vindicated now by the decisions of the US Military. They should be prosecuted. Because the next time some cowboy thinks about pickling a bomb into a training area, maybe they'll listen to the ground controllers and NOT do it.

And Duke, if you think for a minute that the US public wouldnt scream bloody murder if somr Rangers were killed by a Canadian CF-18 pilot dropping a bomb on them, you're delusional

[Tovarish 0]

This might be a moot point, because they did fire without permission first, and this thing was a complete fuckup on the part of the communications structure between US and Canadian forces, but didn't the pilot recieve a clearance to fire seconds after he dropped the bomb? Clearly they are not the only ones who should be facing charges in this, I think some higher-ups are using them as scapegoats.

But we can't just accept the "oops, sorry, it was just a freak accident excuse". Otherwise, this "shoot first, ask questions later" attitude will prevail and more friendlies will be killed.

[Stag 0]

FYI, He was not given permission to engage. He declared self-defence, and this was acknowledged.

http://www.centcom.mil/News/Reports/Tarnak_Farms_Report.htm.

Distrurbingly, this link is now broken, and the text which I copied from another site will not paste to here.

I shit you not.

Lap it up, conspiricy theorists.

[Stag 0]

The link is back up, but out of the piece copied, the lines below are the only ones which appear here.

Excerpt from report:

D. COFFEE FLIGHT OVER TARNAK FARMS

COFFEE flight reported to _ feet MSL and started to fly a wide right turn around the location of the reported SAFIRE. At 2122:30Z, both pilots activated their on-board recorders. At this time, COFFEE 51 and COFFEE 52 were about _ to "lay down some 20 mike-mike," meaning to fire on the site with his 20mm cannon. _. COFFEE flight could not hear these transmissions. _ wants you to work south. There may be friendlies Kandahar.â€

After air refueling, COFFEE flight returned to their deployed location. The return flight lasted approximately___, who gathered information from them regarding their involvement with the friendly fire incident.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wardog @ Sep. 13 2002,21:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FYI, He was not given permission to engage. He declared self-defence, and this was acknowledged.

http://www.centcom.mil/News/Reports/Tarnak_Farms_Report.htm.

Distrurbingly, this link is now broken, and the text which I copied from another site will not paste to here.

I shit you not.

Lap it up, conspiricy theorists.<span id='postcolor'>

LOL I solved your conspiracy, apparently the US government is subconsiously forcing you to press an extra "." after a web link. fixed it for ya, here's the report:

http://www.centcom.mil/News/Reports/Tarnak_Farms_Report.htm

[Stag 0]

Nice. Now post sections D and E over here, because for some reason, I can't.

[Tovarish 0]

almost got it

[Stag 0]

Looks a bit abridged, doesn't it?

[Tovarish 0]

Excerpts C through E

C. ALPHA COMPANY AT THE TARNAK FARMS RANGE

COFFEE flight was approximately <censored> nautical miles northeast of the Tarnak Farms Range as they prepared to rendezvous with the assigned air refueling tanker. The Tarnak Farms Range is a training area located within AO <censored> and <censored>. At the same time, approximately 100 soldiers from Alpha Company, 3 PPCLI, were training on the Tarnak Farms Range. They had arrived at the range in the late afternoon for night live-fire training. At about 2035Z, Alpha Company had been directed to stop firing by the Kandahar Airport control tower to allow a C-130 aircraft to land. Approximately 16 minutes later, the soldiers on the range were notified that they could resume firing.

On the northern part of the range, a group of ten soldiers organized as a tank stalk team under the command of Master Corporal <censored> began their training at about 2116Z (see figure 3.1). The purpose of a tank stalk is to attack tanks using machine guns and anti-tank weapons.

The team had advanced up a 15-foot deep irrigation canal, referred to as Wadi East. Corporal <censored> engaged a silhouette target at the top of the wadi with his <censored>, firing two or three short bursts over a ten second period to eliminate the target. The team then climbed to the top of the wadi and took up prone firing positions oriented to the west as depicted in figure 3.1. They fired level with the ground at a tank hull 200 meters away. Sergeant Lééger, the Range Safety Officer, was positioned to the rear of the 40 meter long firing line. At the beginning of the training, Private Green fired one anti-tank weapon at about the same time as the anti-tank crew fired the first of six rounds. As the training progressed, Corporal <censored> fired two more rounds from the <censored>, then changed positions with Corporal <censored> so he could fire the remaining three. Everyone except the <censored> crew used night vision devices. The <censored> crew used a telescopic sight to aim their weapon.

D. COFFEE FLIGHT OVER TARNAK FARMS

COFFEE flight reported to <censored> that they were witnessing surface-to-air fire (SAFIRE) off to the right side of their formation. COFFEE 51 requested permission from <censored> to take a mark, which was approved. At this point, COFFEE 52 put his NVGs back on and turned off his external lights. COFFEE 52 then made a right hand turn away from his flight lead and began a descent. COFFEE 51 remained above feet MSL and started to fly a wide right turn around the location of the reported SAFIRE. At 2122:30Z, both pilots activated their on-board recorders. At this time, COFFEE 51 and COFFEE 52 were about nautical miles away from each other with the reported SAFIRE located between them.

Fifteen seconds later, COFFEE 52 made a descending left turn, putting the SAFIRE site in the center of his in an attempt to mark the coordinates. While doing so, COFFEE 52 descended to <censored> AGL and slowed to <censored>knots calibrated air speed (KCAS).

COFFEE 52 then turned away from the site and reported that he could see the source of the reported SAFIRE. At 2123:23Z, he requested permission from to "lay down some 20 mike-mike," meaning to fire on the site with his 20mm cannon. <censored> replied ““Standby." Twenty-eight seconds later, the AWACS Mission Crew Commander (MCC) had relayed this request to the CAOC, call sign . COFFEE flight could not hear these transmissions. <censored> informed <censored> that COFFEE flight had seen SAFIRE near Kandahar and that COFFEE 52 had requested to employ his 20mm cannon. The Chief of Combat Operations (CCO), immediately told the <censored> controller to deny the request. The CCO asked the DCO seated near him, "Are you hearing this?"

At 2124:38Z, <censored> called <censored> requesting more information on the SAFIRE and instructed <censored> to tell COFFEE flight to hold fire. The direction ““……hold fire, need details on SAFIRE for <censored>," was relayed by <censored> to COFFEE flight shortly thereafter. At this point, 1 minute and 22 seconds had elapsed since COFFEE 52's initial request for permission to employ his 20mm cannon.

E. FINAL INCIDENT SEQUENCE

At Tarnak Farms Range, the <censored> crew had fired two of their remaining three rounds but were having difficulty properly loading the last round. Corporal <censored> completed loading the final round and Corporal <censored> was preparing to fire the weapon. Sergeant <censored>, the soldier furthest to the south, was observing the tank stalk crew.

The <censored> gunners, Corporal Dyer and Private Smith, directed by Master Corporal <censored>, had fired all their ammunition and the gunner manning the <censored>, Corporal <censored>, was firing at a slow rate (3-4 round bursts with about a 10 second pause between bursts) because he was conserving his ammunition. He occasionally fired faster bursts to assist the <censored> gunners in sighting the tank target as necessary. Sergeant Lééger and Master Corporal <censored> continued supervising the tank stalk team.

At 2124:54Z, in immediate response to direction to hold fire and request for information on the SAFIRE, COFFEE 52 told <censored>"Okay I’’ve got a, uh, I’’ve got some men on a road and it looks like a piece of artillery firing at us. I am rolling in in self defense.â€â€ <censored>responded four seconds later, ““<censored> copies.â€â€ Immediately after, COFFEE 51 reminded COFFEE 52 over the UHF frequency, ““Check master arm, laser arm.â€â€ At the same time, <censored> relayed to <censored> COFFEE 52’’s declaration of self-defense. COFFEE 52 then called ““bombs awayâ€â€ over the UHF radio frequency and released one 500 pound GBU-12 laser-guided bomb. Thirty-eight seconds after <censored>call concerning COFFEE flight’’s declaration of self-defense, <censored> told <censored>, ““<censored>, <censored>, be advised Kandahar has friendlies, you are to get COFFEE 51 out of there as soon as possible.â€â€ This call was received by <censored> during bomb impact and was immediately acknowledged.

As the bomb was released, Sergeant Lééger began walking from the <censored> team towards the machine gun crew. Private Green was kneeling. Sergeant <censored> and Corporals <censored> and <censored> heard a whistling sound that Sergeant <censored> immediately recognized as incoming fire. The GBU-12 impacted the ground approximately three feet to the left of the machine gun crew on the west lip of Wadi East. The main force of the explosion hit the south end of the line of ten soldiers. Sergeant Lééger, Corporal Dyer, Private Green and Private Smith died immediately. Two minutes and 20 seconds had elapsed from COFFEE 52's request to employ his 20mm cannon until the GBU-12 impacted at Tarnak Farms.

After the bomb detonated, COFFEE 52 called ““shackâ€â€ over the radio frequency, indicating a direct hit on the target. This call was not acknowledged. Nine seconds after the bomb impacted the ground, COFFEE 52 began a radio call to <censored>. <censored> interrupted and relayed the CAOC's directions to COFFEE flight to "Disengage, friendlies Kandahar." COFFEE 52 acknowledged the order from <censored> and said, ““……disengaging south.â€â€ COFFEE flight then proceeded southwest on their original heading of 230 degrees to rendezvous with an assigned air refueling tanker.

Approximately five seconds after informing <censored> that he was disengaging south, COFFEE 51 called, ““Copy, uh, can you confirm that they were shooting at us?â€â€ <censored> replied, ““COFFEE 51, <censored>, you cleared self-defense [unintelligible] wants you to work south. There may be friendlies Kandahar.â€â€

After air refueling, COFFEE flight returned to their deployed location. The return flight lasted approximately<censored> . While en route to the air refueling tanker, there was considerable communication, both internally between the two pilots, and externally with <censored>, concerning the location and the nature of the reported SAFIRE. Upon arrival at their deployed location, the pilots were met planeside by the 332 AEG Commander, Colonel Nichols. He informed the two pilots of the friendly fire incident.

AWACS remained on station for another <censored> after COFFEE flight departed the area. They then returned to their deployed location. The crew was met at the debrief by their squadron operations officer, Lieutenant Colonel <censored>, who gathered information from them regarding their involvement with the friendly fire incident.

Post-Incident Medical Response

At Tarnak Farms, Master Corporal <censored>, who had been blown back into the wadi by the force of the explosion, began to assist with the injured. Under the direction of Sergeant <censored>, three medics triaged the injured personnel for medical evacuation. Major <censored>, the Alpha Company Commander, established a secure perimeter because the cause of the explosion was unknown. Alpha Company radioed their headquarters and requested medevac. Captain <censored> led soldiers in a search for dead and wounded.

Within 27 minutes, a UH-60 Blackhawk medevac helicopter arrived at the scene. Alpha Company loaded the wounded soldiers onto the helicopter. Five wounded soldiers, Sergeant <censored>, Master Corporal <censored>, and Corporals <censored>, <censored>, and <censored> were evacuated and arrived at Kandahar Airport 59 minutes after the bomb impact. Master Corporal <censored>, Corporal <censored>, and Private <censored> were transported the three miles to Kandahar Airport by a Bison ambulance.

One hour and 20 minutes after the bomb impact, Major <censored> reported that he had accounted for all personnel. He then moved his company back to Kandahar, leaving behind several soldiers to secure the site.

The wounded soldiers were attended by the U.S. surgical team stationed at Kandahar and the 3 PPCLI Medical Officer. One of the wounded soldiers, Sergeant <censored>, required immediate surgery on his leg. The six most seriously wounded soldiers were medevaced by a USAF C-17 aircraft to Ramstein Air Base, Germany, and were immediately transferred to the Landstuhl Regional Medical Center, a U.S. Army facility.

Had to replace the blanks with <censored> to work on this forum, no conspiracy

[Stag 0]

Shouldn't have explained it. It's like the loch Ness monster; not knowing for sure...

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wardog @ Sep. 13 2002,22:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Shouldn't have explained it. It's like the loch Ness monster; not knowing for sure...<span id='postcolor'>

Lol I get enough of that at college, happening right now actually, I'm very close to throwing a keyboard in frustration - got a big program due at midnight tonight and it's not cooperating. When I find computer related things that defy explanation...I just gotta explain e'm

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

I do not think people should get in trouble for accidents like these. If a Canadian did the same to an American I might get mad, but would not want the Canadian to get in trouble. If a cop accidently shoots a civilian, it is an accident and unless there is a very odd deal going on he should not get in trouble.

[bn880 5]

There is a firing procedure, the pilot did not wait for the go ahead from HQ before openeing fire... that's one problem. Then there is the organizational problem of the US Armed Forces.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Sep. 13 2002,23:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I do not think people should get in trouble for accidents like these. If a Canadian did the same to an American I might get mad, but would not want the Canadian to get in trouble. If a cop accidently shoots a civilian, it is an accident and unless there is a very odd deal going on he should not get in trouble.<span id='postcolor'>

We've already gone through this Duke, if we just keep forgiving such mistakes, then troops will get the message that it's ok to shoot first and ask questions later. Like it or not this is manslaughter, same as it would be if for example, I _thought_ someone on the street was about to attack me, and I killed them. As to your cop example, a policeman would in fact get charged for shooting an unarmed, non threatening civilian. People like that have to make sure they identify the threat and deal accordingly. Like it was said in Spiderman, with great power comes great responsibility.