Ukraine General

[vilas 473]

Ukraine, U.S. plan to jointly fight piracy online in Ukraine in 2016

this can be very dangereous , all anti piracy acts are dangerous from 2 main reasons:

- stops poor countries students from education (people from the west do not understand it, their parents earn 2000 euro * 2, in their countries legal software is cheaper than in our countries because of corporations policy, in Ukraine people earn 200 Euro and software prices is higher, in Poland also license for even M$ windows costs more than in USA), so it can block education,

- together with GMO , agriculture can become infected with GMO grain, and than it would belong to corporations due to copyrights on DNA:

http://grist.org/sustainable-food/2011-03-31-reversing-roles-organic-farmers-sue-monsanto-over-gmo-seeds/

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-seeds-of-suicide-how-monsanto-destroys-farming/5329947

[mistyronin 1181]

*Adding some humor*

Seems that Putin was right! There's proof that in Eastern Ukraine the Russian soldiers were there only accidentally...

[oxmox 73]

Wanted ex-president Saakashvili becomes Ukrainian Governeur

Self-exiled former Georgia president Mikheil Saakashvili returns as governor of key region in Ukraine

He's probably best known as the former president of Georgia. Or more recently, as a one-term academic at Tufts University, or to residents of Brooklyn, as the man about Williamsburg in fluorescent shoes.

Mikheil Saakashvili, the pro-Western ex-president of the small former Soviet country brazen enough to start a war with Russia in 2008, has tried to reinvent himself in unusual ways for a former head of state since leaving Georgia to live in self-imposed exile.

But his latest reincarnation is particularly uncommon: On Saturday, Saakashvili took office in a second country trying to resist Russian advances.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko appointed Saakashvili the governor of the Odessa region, Ukraine’s largest geographic area and sixth most populated region. It’s also home to Ukraine’s largest seaport, sitting between the recently-annexed territory of Crimea and the strategic, Russian-supported breakaway region of Trandnistria, in Moldova.

Saakashvili has been serving as an adviser to Poroshenko since February, and is not the first non-Ukrainian to be appointed to a prominent government position since the current president was elected.

And it doesn’t hurt that he has powerful American friends and can speak Ukrainian.

--> As president of Georgia, Saakashvili was credited with instituting effective reforms in its notoriously corrupt police force and judiciary – which Ukrainian anti-corruption activists frequently talk about emulating. But Saakashvili is also currently wanted in Georgia on embezzlement charges, which he argues are politically motivated.

Saakashvili has also been celebrated as an antagonist for Western-style democracy – but one of the main complaints against his presidency is that he pushed through reforms without allowing enough public participation. Along with his new governorship, Poroshenko also gave Saakashvili official citizenship in Ukraine.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/05/30/self-exiled-former-georgia-president-mikheil-saakashvili-returns-as-governor-of-key-region-in-ukraine/

...seems like the strategy is to install none-Ukrainian and US-backed politicians without inner ties to the "mafia/oligarch/corruption structures" in the Ukraine.

Edited May 31, 2015 by oxmox

[mistyronin 1181]

...seems like the strategy is to install none-Ukrainian and US-backed politicians without inner ties to the "mafia/oligarch/corruption structures" in the Ukraine.

It's a... curious decision from Poroshenko.

- - -

Maybe the Kremlin crew would benefit of a visit to the Nazi concentration camps, maybe then they will start understanding what the Nazis were and stop calling it to everyone that don't support the Kremlin's imperialism.

(BBC) Ukraine: Putin aide brands Poroshenko 'Nazi' ahead of EU deal

Sergei Glazyev said Petro Poroshenko was a "Nazi" and his endorsement of the deal was "illegitimate".

Mr Poroshenko is expected to sign the full association agreement at the EU summit in Brussels later.

[St. Jimmy 272]

Wanted ex-president Saakashvili becomes Ukrainian Governeur

Self-exiled former Georgia president Mikheil Saakashvili returns as governor of key region in Ukraine

He's probably best known as the former president of Georgia. Or more recently, as a one-term academic at Tufts University, or to residents of Brooklyn, as the man about Williamsburg in fluorescent shoes.

Mikheil Saakashvili, the pro-Western ex-president of the small former Soviet country brazen enough to start a war with Russia in 2008, has tried to reinvent himself in unusual ways for a former head of state since leaving Georgia to live in self-imposed exile.

But his latest reincarnation is particularly uncommon: On Saturday, Saakashvili took office in a second country trying to resist Russian advances.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko appointed Saakashvili the governor of the Odessa region, Ukraine’s largest geographic area and sixth most populated region. It’s also home to Ukraine’s largest seaport, sitting between the recently-annexed territory of Crimea and the strategic, Russian-supported breakaway region of Trandnistria, in Moldova.

Saakashvili has been serving as an adviser to Poroshenko since February, and is not the first non-Ukrainian to be appointed to a prominent government position since the current president was elected.

And it doesn’t hurt that he has powerful American friends and can speak Ukrainian.

--> As president of Georgia, Saakashvili was credited with instituting effective reforms in its notoriously corrupt police force and judiciary – which Ukrainian anti-corruption activists frequently talk about emulating. But Saakashvili is also currently wanted in Georgia on embezzlement charges, which he argues are politically motivated.

Saakashvili has also been celebrated as an antagonist for Western-style democracy – but one of the main complaints against his presidency is that he pushed through reforms without allowing enough public participation. Along with his new governorship, Poroshenko also gave Saakashvili official citizenship in Ukraine.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/05/30/self-exiled-former-georgia-president-mikheil-saakashvili-returns-as-governor-of-key-region-in-ukraine/

...seems like the strategy is to install none-Ukrainian and US-backed politicians without inner ties to the "mafia/oligarch/corruption structures" in the Ukraine.

Seems like nothing changes at least for the non-Ukrainian part.

[vilas 473]

Seems like nothing changes at least for the non-Ukrainian part.

exactly, pro Russian oligarchs replaced by pro US oligarchs doesn't change anything for Ukrainians,

but probably there was never pro-Ukrainian oligarchs, cause every oligarch was simply corrupted local mafia boss, usually bandits do not care about nation or politics, usually bandits care only about bank account, their own bank account , nothing more ,

Poroshenko has problem with Ukrainian administration for sure, cause noone in higher level of this administration doesn't care about state , they all used to live in banana-republic structure, of local nobles, they used to live like it was XII century,

as we know history, only thing that made states strong was tyrrany, cause each noble, each count wanted to be his-county only ruler, such structure my state had in XII century,

history of humankind is simple:

democracy (weakness of state, lack of big states, lack of nations) > tyrrany (empires, strong nation, strong state, powerful state with succes) > colonies (super strong states, lots of profits from others suffering) > corrupted tyrrany (leaders that are thieves, population suffers) > revolution > democracy (all falling appart, weaknes, disorder) > ...

Edited June 1, 2015 by vilas

[Tonci87 163]

I can understand why Poroschenko might want to get people from other countries, he has the hope that they are more trustworthy than his own people (wich, according to the situation in Ukraine isn´t very hard).

[vilas 473]

http://wpolityce.pl/swiat/254545-der-spiegel-rosjanie-sfalszowali-zdjecia-satelitarne-z-dnia-katastrofy-samolotu-samolotu-malezyjskiego-mh-17

German press informs that satelite photos from MH17 crash published by Russia were photoshoped by Russians

[Tonci87 163]

Original in German

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/mh17-wie-russland-satellitenfotos-faelschte-a-1036489.html

Full Bellingcat analysis (german)

https://www.bellingcat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Forensic_analysis_of_satellite_images_DE.pdf

Full analysis in english

https://www.bellingcat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Forensic_analysis_of_satellite_images_EN.pdf

In short:

4days afetr the plane was shot down the Russian MoD published satellite images supposedly showing Ukrainian AA activity in the area. However, the Bellingcat analysis has uncovered that the pictures had falsified time and datestamps and were altered with Photoshop CS5

First picture

According to the Russian MoD it shows the Ukrainian AA batallion A-1428 north of Donetzk. The analysis shows that the picture has been photoshoped. The clouds have been added to mask details and the original picture is one month older than the Russian MoD claims it to be.

Second picture

Accoding to the Russian MoD it shows a Ukrainian Buk battery near the village of Saroschenskoje, this picture has been photoshoped as well (vehicles have been added digitaly) and is without a doubt older than the Russian MoD claims it to be. More pictures in the full report.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Tonci87

[mistyronin 1181]

(Svenska Dagbladet, in Swedish) UN on the Eastern Ukraine: Murder, torture and slavery

Serious human rights abuses continue in Ukraine, despite the Minsk Agreement. It said the United Nations on Monday, and reported at the same time that at least 6417 people were killed and close to 16,000 injured in the conflict. People lives in continued fear, according to the UN also warns of "torture and abuse" on the Crimean Peninsula.

[oxmox 73]

there will be for sure some vivid discussions and investiagations about both claims in the internet:

....russian press response to the Bellingcat investigations:

Exposed: Russian Blogger Cuts British Online Investigators Down to Size

A well-known Russian blogger has debunked the so-called forensic analysis by British online investigative group Bellingcat of satellite photos of the downed MH17 flight released by the Russian Ministry of Defense.

Russian blogger 'ntv' uncovered a number of obvious logical errors, exposing the incompetence of the amateur sleuths who accused the Russian Ministry of Defense of falsifying the imagery, based on irrelevant and insufficient evidence.

The blogger however explains that the use of Adobe Photoshop CS5 software is the standard method for changing the size of the pictures and the ministry obviously used it for this very purpose and not, in fact, to modify the actual imagery. ( --> he refers probably to the EXIF data)

The blogger went even further and uploaded a random photo from the Bellingcat website onto the website used by the group for analysis, only to find out that it had also been artfully edited in Adobe Photoshop.

The blogger also debunks the Error Level Analysis (ELA) of the imagery that Bellingcat claimed was so significant.

The ELA for Picture 4 shows five areas with significantly different error levels

The investigators claim they revealed five areas with significantly different error levels which clearly indicated a digital modification. The blogger however proves that this type of analysis is also insufficient by analyzing knowingly unedited photos yet finding the exact same result.

The blogger goes further and rips into Bellingcat's argument based on the chronology of the photos, and in so doing finds it harder and harder to hide his disbelief at the crude level of incompetence contained in the Bellingcat report.

.....more infos & images:

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150601/1022820260.html

What about the official investigations about the MH17 case, you dont hear much ....... ?

Thats more important than blogger claims.

Edited June 1, 2015 by oxmox

[aleksadragutin 9]

What about the official investigations about the MH17 case, you dont hear much ....... ?

Thats more important than blogger claims.

The sad truth is that nobody really cares anymore. The event was just used for propaganda on both sides, and once it cooled down, everyone moved on. Much like a recent helicopter crash here in Serbia.

[mistyronin 1181]

The sad truth is that nobody really cares anymore. The event was just used for propaganda on both sides, and once it cooled down, everyone moved on. Much like a recent helicopter crash here in Serbia.

I agree, I couldn't say it better myself :)

[vilas 473]

someone from abroad shot down helicopter in Serbia ?

[aleksadragutin 9]

someone from abroad shot down helicopter in Serbia ?

I was refering to the investigation, not the actual downing. And noone really knows what happened, or who did it, so let's not jump to conclusion.

[vilas 473]

aha, so it is how journalists work, they use sensation to add more viewers, than products are in commercial break shown on ads, than producer of products gonna pay more for 1 second of commercial break or 1 cm2 for commercial ad in newespaper

the same is with sitcoms, they are used to : 1) keep frustrated people home (especially all those love stories in luxury environment and all criminal sitcoms when all ends with happy end in 30 minutes divided by 3 commercial breaks 5 minutes each one), 2) fulfill with anything break between another commercial breaks keeping people sitting when watching ads

journalists who work in mainstream media do not look for any truth, they work to make propaganda or simply make people watching station in time of most expensive advertisement second

the same is used with titles that focus people to look at webpage , the more blood , sex - the better, than adding banners with products, the more fear , than products such as inssurance, weaponry etc.

Edited June 2, 2015 by vilas

[aleksadragutin 9]

aha, so it is how journalists work, they use sensation to add more viewers, than products are in commercial break shown on ads, than producer of products gonna pay more for 1 second of commercial break or 1 cm2 for commercial ad in newespaper

the same is with sitcoms, they are used to : 1) keep frustrated people home (especially all those love stories in luxury environment and all criminal sitcoms when all ends with happy end in 30 minutes divided by 3 commercial breaks 5 minutes each one), 2) fulfill with anything break between another commercial breaks keeping people sitting when watching ads

journalists who work in mainstream media do not look for any truth, they work to make propaganda or simply make people watching station in time of most expensive advertisement second

the same is used with titles that focus people to look at webpage , the more blood , sex - the better, than adding banners with products, the more fear , than products such as inssurance, weaponry etc.

Well yeah... But regarding the MH17, you can't really hear anything from official sources anymore, and back when you could, it was just blaming each other, and the louder you yell, the more convincing your angle looks.

[vilas 473]

it is like with those killings of former administration of Yanuk,

even if it was mafia crimes of oligarchs fighting with each other - than political explanation is "better" for both sides, cause 2 sides can on and on discredit each other accusing of crimes, murders, while in fact probably murders were committed cause oligarchs fight with each other and remove witness ,

old story from my childhood, i lived in dangerous area full of bandits, one day drunken guy throw away cigarette into trash bin, trash was ablaze, near by car was little damaged, local TV station informed that mafia set a fire under other mafioso car , lol, while it was simply drunken idiot who put cigarete into trash can in summer, because of it later few gangsters almost not shoot each other to death :D lol :D

such thing may work in Ukraine

Ukrainians flew jet near zone, than Russian delivered BUK to guerillas was used by guerillas to shoot in direction of jet , but shot down MH17, and everyone covers it because Russia delivered arms into other country territory, Ukraine because they were flying jet near by, guerrillas cause they pushed fire button and BUK was illegally brought from Russia to territory of other country (Ukraine),

or investigation is long cause noone of investigator doesn't want to start WW3 or Cold War 2 because there are very strong proof against Russia and than Putin will gone mad, while Dutch, French, German business want to trade with Russian market so they do not want Russian responsibility shown, cause if it is shown, than they cannot sell products without public shaming,

in case of Russia - which is huge customer for western products - it should be remembered that some decisions are made not to harm too much customer - like old proverb says "customer is always right",

so despite of any proofs maybe some guys in commission do all to not see Russian responsibility, because all his family works in car manufacturer and Russians are first buyers of those cars for example, or someone from business ranged to him telling "do something that we can close this goddamn sanctions cause i have 10 millions dollars lost in lack of sales" ,

i know personally someone who knew about falsifying documents in one Polish ministry, all responsible services were doing all to cover it, otherwise respected person would be in jail and this person was someone whom opposition journalists loved, and this person had "papers" on mainstream as well, so ... everyone would loose

so when famous and liked person commits crime than sometimes surrounding environment does all to cover it, because loss would be "too big" (look at all celebrity problems with law, in my country almost everytime when celebrity causes road accident than... only small minor websites write about it, and all mainstream press is silent about it and delete any information from forums, cause celebrity is someone they love),

so silence doesn't mean there are no proofs, maybe proofs are such , that they afraid to start WW3 ,

maybe there is third option, solid proofs against Russia but... Russian intel found something against US

for example in year 1990x or 200x CIA murdered someone innocent who won election in country X on direct order of president of USA because one corporation ordered it because they couldn't legally buy banks in that country X while this president nephew is in management board of this bank and Russian intel has solid proofs, so they now say "if you publish it, than we publish our documents and you baked"

it is also old scheme, you have proof against me, i have proof against you, if you will publish my crime, i will publish your crime, we all gonna loose, so we keep silence because you have a lot to loose, i have lot to loose, so than we wait till all smoke will be down,

or maybe fourth scenario CIA has proofs and they call Putin "if you will not give jets to China and Iran we may forget about..."

or CIA/Dutch intel calls to Putin "if you will not say that our banks gonna buy half of Ukraine for 1 dollar than we may forget about ..."

in case of intels all scenarios are possible, cause intels are not made by honest knights but usually from guys who in other conditions would spend life in prison

The absence of war does not mean peace

The absence of noise does not mean silence VADER

Edited June 2, 2015 by vilas

[oxmox 73]

deleted

Edited June 2, 2015 by oxmox

[aleksadragutin 9]

it is like with those killings of former administration of Yanuk,

even if it was mafia crimes of oligarchs fighting with each other - than political explanation is "better" for both sides, cause 2 sides can on and on discredit each other accusing of crimes, murders, while in fact probably murders were committed cause oligarchs fight with each other and remove witness ,

old story from my childhood, i lived in dangerous area full of bandits, one day drunken guy throw away cigarette into trash bin, trash was ablaze, near by car was little damaged, local TV station informed that mafia set a fire under other mafioso car , lol, while it was simply drunken idiot who put cigarete into trash can in summer, because of it later few gangsters almost not shoot each other to death :D lol :D

such thing may work in Ukraine

Ukrainians flew jet near zone, than Russian delivered BUK to guerillas was used by guerillas to shoot in direction of jet , but shot down MH17, and everyone covers it because Russia delivered arms into other country territory, Ukraine because they were flying jet near by, guerrillas cause they pushed fire button and BUK was illegally brought from Russia to territory of other country (Ukraine),

or investigation is long cause noone of investigator doesn't want to start WW3 or Cold War 2 because there are very strong proof against Russia and than Putin will gone mad, while Dutch, French, German business want to trade with Russian market so they do not want Russian responsibility shown, cause if it is shown, than they cannot sell products without public shaming,

in case of Russia - which is huge customer for western products - it should be remembered that some decisions are made not to harm too much customer - like old proverb says "customer is always right",

so despite of any proofs maybe some guys in commission do all to not see Russian responsibility, because all his family works in car manufacturer and Russians are first buyers of those cars for example, or someone from business ranged to him telling "do something that we can close this goddamn sanctions cause i have 10 millions dollars lost in lack of sales" ,

i know personally someone who knew about falsifying documents in one Polish ministry, all responsible services were doing all to cover it, otherwise respected person would be in jail and this person was someone whom opposition journalists loved, and this person had "papers" on mainstream as well, so ... everyone would loose

so when famous and liked person commits crime than sometimes surrounding environment does all to cover it, because loss would be "too big" (look at all celebrity problems with law, in my country almost everytime when celebrity causes road accident than... only small minor websites write about it, and all mainstream press is silent about it and delete any information from forums, cause celebrity is someone they love),

so silence doesn't mean there are no proofs, maybe proofs are such , that they afraid to start WW3 ,

maybe there is third option, solid proofs against Russia but... Russian intel found something against US

for example in year 1990x or 200x CIA murdered someone innocent who won election in country X on direct order of president of USA because one corporation ordered it because they couldn't legally buy banks in that country X while this president nephew is in management board of this bank and Russian intel has solid proofs, so they now say "if you publish it, than we publish our documents and you baked"

it is also old scheme, you have proof against me, i have proof against you, if you will publish my crime, i will publish your crime, we all gonna loose, so we keep silence because you have a lot to loose, i have lot to loose, so than we wait till all smoke will be down,

or maybe fourth scenario CIA has proofs and they call Putin "if you will not give jets to China and Iran we may forget about..."

or CIA/Dutch intel calls to Putin "if you will not say that our banks gonna buy half of Ukraine for 1 dollar than we may forget about ..."

in case of intels all scenarios are possible, cause intels are not made by honest knights but usually from guys who in other conditions would spend life in prison

The absence of war does not mean peace

The absence of noise does not mean silence VADER

It's also possible that they didn't find what they were looking for. I believe the investigators specifically looked for proof of Russian involvement in the downing. Perhaps the results were inconclusive.

[sudayev 27]

Not sure if anyone of you heard the news from today - the summer offensive is starting up.

recommend tracking liveuamap http://liveuamap.com/

Separatists have been receiving massive reinforcements from Russia lately and looks like they are ready. Since morning Ukrainian positions along the frontline from Mariupol to Artemovsk have been shelled by heavy artillery and mlrs. There are many wounded and killed.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Sudayev

[ProfTournesol 956]

Not sure if anyone of you heard the news from today recommend tracking liveuamap http://liveuamap.com/ The summer offensive is starting up.

Separatists have been receiving massive reinforcements from Russia lately and looks like they are ready. Since morning Ukrainian positions along the frontline from Mariupol to Artemovsk have been shelled by heavy artillery and mlrs. There are many wounded and killed.

No surprise, who thought the so called rebels and their powerful ally would respect their word ?

[Tonci87 163]

Main attacks seem to go towards Mariupol where there is fighting for the vilage of Shirokyne and towards some small towns near Donetsk. Lot´s of heavy artillery is beeing used, tanks have also been sighted. Yup, seems like a very clear violation of the Minsk agreements.

[sudayev 27]

Heavy fights in Maryinka, Donetsk outskirts.

[mistyronin 1181]

Let's check what the OSCE neutral mission reported about it:

Spot report by the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine (SMM), 3 June 2015: Fighting around Marinka

Between 22:30hrs on 2 June and 05:30hrs on 3 June, the SMM – positioned in the “Donetsk People’s Republic†(“DPRâ€)-controlled Tekstilshchik area of Donetsk city (14km east-north-east of Marinka) – made a number of observations. It observed, inter alia, eight tracked armoured vehicles moving west, four of which were main battle tanks (MBT) at 22:30hrs; four MBTs at 23:03hrs; a military-type truck moving west, towing a 122mm artillery piece at 23:45hrs; two T-64 MBTs moving west at 04:30hrs; and a column of one infantry fighting vehicle (BMP-2), three military trucks (one carrying an ZU-23-2 anti-aircraft gun), and two T-72 MBTs, moving west, at 04:50hrs. In addition, the SMM – at the same location – heard approximately 100 outgoing artillery rounds fired from a location 1-5km north-north-west of its position between 04:30 and 04:40hrs; an outgoing salvo of BM-21 multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) Grad rockets fired from a location 1-5km west of its position at 04:55hrs; and, 100 outgoing artillery rounds fired from a location 5km north-north-west of its position.

The SMM made several attempts between 10:45 and 12:11hrs to contact high-ranking “DPR†personnel – including the “DPR†“prime ministerâ€, “parliamentary speakerâ€, “minister of defence†and “chief of the general staff†– in order to facilitate a cessation to the fighting around Marinka. Either they were unavailable or did not wish to speak to the SMM.

Summarizing, the Pro-Russians lead a big attack once more, breaking all the agreements signed.