beastcat 14 Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) This is what exploded Ministry of Defense Chemical Factory (Donetsk) also got hit on saturday. And thats why you shouldn't believe super unconfirmed things :D Thanks as always, Mr. Wizard. What are these? Edited October 20, 2014 by beastcat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aleksadragutin 9 Posted October 20, 2014 And thats why you shouldn't believe super unconfirmed things :D Thanks as always, Mr. Wizard.https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0ZC_V_CcAA2-3T.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0ZDBoqCQAAiMVn.png https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0ZC_0PCYAAS0Te.jpg What are these? I think those are some low resolution pictures. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted October 20, 2014 I think those are some low resolution pictures. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted October 20, 2014 It could be the same place but I wouldn´t bet on it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted October 20, 2014 Heres another pic from the set. The guy sitting in the front is the one from the first pic. The camo seems to be the same as on the pic with the multiple tanks. Anyway, what tank is that? It says T-90, but you know, you can't trust random text from a random place, especially because all tanks kinda look the same to me and there are hundreds of variants. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted October 20, 2014 Heres another pic from the set.https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0ZDAUcCQAAHTOn.jpg The guy sitting in the front is the one from the first pic. Anyway, what tank is that? It says T-90, but you know, you can't trust random text from a random place, especially because all tanks kinda look the same to me and there are hundreds of variants. Does the T-90 have its exhaust in the same place as the T72? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surpher 1 Posted October 20, 2014 I think they are tourists from 136 ОМСБр (в/ч 63354,БуйнакÑк) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted October 20, 2014 I think they are tourists from 136 ОМСБр (в/ч 63354,БуйнакÑк) Yeah, the tank above is probably a hardened camping car. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) Heres the corresponding article btw: РоÑÑийÑкие танки “Т-90″ 136-й мотоÑтрелковой бригады в ЛуганÑкой облаÑти – фотофакт "Russian 'T-90' tanks of the 136th motorized brigade inside of Lugansk" The article has geolocating and stuff. The photos were posted by a russian tanker (Is that a word?). They were geolocated to be in Lugansk. 136th motorized brigade, some kind of T-90, number of the tank is 438. Edited October 20, 2014 by beastcat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surpher 1 Posted October 20, 2014 This looks like the sign he is pointing too. Panoramio Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted October 20, 2014 This looks like the sign he is pointing too.Panoramio It could be the same place but I wouldn´t bet on it. Really unlikely, unless they grow trees next to the power lines ( compare both photos at the far away trees next to the power lines after the sign ). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted October 20, 2014 The 136th motorized brigade (I think thats how you translate it) before crossing the border. https://informnapalm.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/t-90-kamensk.jpg (127 kB) This tank seems to be the same type. And a 2S3 Akatsiya. Stupid image size limit.... TASS - Russia plans to do a state owned Skype clone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted October 20, 2014 Don´t all Russian T90s have Shtora on them? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rydygier 1302 Posted October 20, 2014 Interview with Radosław Sikorski in American magazine "Politico" Russia first preparations for the occupation of Crimea began in 2008. Vladimir Putin began to publicly say that Ukraine is an artificial creation. The president of Russia began to make attempts to pulling in Poland into invasion on Ukraine. - Putin wanted that we took part in the partition of Ukraine - quotes former Foreign Minister and current Speaker of the Sejm to the Politico magazine.Suggestions for Polish participation in the partition of Ukraine was said during visit of Donald Tusk in Moscow. - He (Putin) said that Ukraine is an artificial state that the city of Lvov is Polish and that it's worthy to take care of this together - said Sikorski. Donald Tusk has not commented on the proposal, knowing that it is recorded. Kremlin wished to achieve their goals, using "imperial dreams" of Poles - assesses Service "Politico". Connected with this was to be the statement of the Russian deputy Vladimir Zhirinovsky, who offered Poland five regions of western Ukraine. Sikorski assured, however, that the government of Donald Tusk made ​​it clear that it wants to have nothing in common with this idea. Our diplomacy had very clearly stated that the Russian side.- I spoke with NATO generals and they see it as much as I do. Putin is willing to push us to the limit. Squeeze out of us all until we crack up. I believe that Putin read our intentions. He sees us as a degenerate weaklings. He thinks, we do not go to war to defend the Baltic states. Maybe he's right - says Sikorski According to Sikorski Vladimir Putin blackmailed the President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych during a meeting in Sochi. Yanukovych was determined to sign an association agreement with the European Union, but in November last year, everything changed. - Based on our conversations it seems to me that Putin told him something in Sochi. I think he was blackmailed. "Do not sign an association agreement. Otherwise take over Crimea" - so Putin could tell to Yanukovych - considered Sikorski - That's what I fear is that Russia is not able to accept Ukraine as a nation. Does not see them as a separate state. If they want to stand against Ukraine, go ahead. Then they see that Ukraine is a real nation, which faces more than 20 years of guerrilla war - said Sikorski.- Russia could easily take over the entire area of Novorossija, but then the whole world would see this and support the real Ukraine. They might win this battle, but to maintain the possession of such a vast territory would require strength in numbers 200-300 thousand soldiers and 10 years of involvement. Never would keep it without a constant national mobilization - he added. According Radoslaw Sikorski Russia calculated, which parts of Ukraine is profitable to take. In Moscow, it was concluded that Zaporozhye, Odessa and Dnietropietrowsk are such areas. - Annexation of Donbas, controlled by pro-Russian rebels, the Kremlin did not seem profitable "- says Sikorski. It is not known whether the interview was authorized by Radoslaw Sikorski. Foreign Ministry spokesman Marcin Wojciechowski would not comment on these statements. Ewa Kopacz before giving comment on the matter, wants to read the full contents of the interview. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted October 20, 2014 So, who remembers that Putin said Kasachstan is an artificial state? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) Russian news said that Ukraine used a Tochka-U, referencing the Chemical Factory explosion. http://youtu.be/foasg-c3odM They did a two and a half minute report on how Ukrainian Army used a Tochka-U, which we established was just the chemical factory exploding. I'm also finding it interesting how they had footage of the explosion that was started filming before the explosion happened this time. Maybe they were filming something else before, but still... They are also saying that finland is looking for some mysterious underwater threat which definitely is not a russian submarine. Edited October 20, 2014 by beastcat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted October 20, 2014 As we know the russian news this may very well mean that there was indeed a tochka fired, but not by the Ukrainians... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) Russian Channel One Their explaination on why they can't take the airport is that its actually NATO defending the airport and they also say that Ukraine wants to settle western Ukrainians into Donetsk after taking it to do what Russia has always been doing. Oh and heres a video from the airport: Oh yeah and this: Its in russian, I'm too lazy to translate it, but basically its always funny when reporters start saying the truth on live TV. At the end the guy says "This was Maria from Kiev, former RBK jornalist" (The Channel Name) (And no, she did not get fired during the video, although it would be funny, I'm just saying that she worked for them, but stopped RT style) Sorry for the slight video spam, I just discovered that the channel is back up again. Edited October 20, 2014 by beastcat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted October 20, 2014 Oh my, he said that the airport is beeing defended by poles and Germans if I understood that correctly, right? FPDR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted October 20, 2014 Oh my, he said that the airport is beeing defended by poles and Germans if I understood that correctly, right? FPDR Yup. Char limit... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surpher 1 Posted October 20, 2014 Another video of the ammunition plant explosion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) Polish ex-minister quoted saying Putin offered to divide Ukraine with Poland in 2008 Poland's parliamentary speaker, Radoslaw Sikorski, has been quoted as saying that Russian President Vladimir Putin proposed to Poland's then leader in 2008 that they divide Ukraine between themselves. Sikorski, who until September served as Poland's foreign minister, was quoted telling U.S. website Politico that Putin made the proposal during Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk's visit to Moscow in 2008 - although he later said some of the interview had been "overinterpreted". "He wanted us to become participants in this partition of Ukraine ... This was one of the first things that Putin said to my prime minister, Donald Tusk, when he visited Moscow," he was quoted as saying in the interview dated Oct. 19. "He (Putin) went on to say Ukraine is an artificial country and that Lwow is a Polish city and why don't we just sort it out together," Sikorski was quoted as saying. Before World War Two, Poland's territory included parts of today's western Ukraine, including some major cities such as Lwow, known as Lviv in Ukraine. ............more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/20/us-ukraine-crisis-poland-sikorski-idUSKCN0I92A720141020 Ukraine Used Cluster Bombs, Evidence Indicates The army’s use of cluster munitions, which shower small bomblets around a large area, could also add credibility to Moscow’s version of the conflict, which is that the Ukrainian national government is engaged in a punitive war against its own citizens. A casing carrying cluster munitions that landed in a shed. Press officers for the Ukrainian military denied that their troops had used cluster weapons in the conflict. Credit Sergey Ponomarev for The New York Times The Ukrainian Army appears to have fired cluster munitions on several occasions into the heart of Donetsk, unleashing a weapon banned in much of the world into a rebel-held city with a peacetime population of more than one million, according to physical evidence and interviews with witnesses and victims. Sites where rockets fell in the city on Oct. 2 and Oct. 5 showed clear signs that cluster munitions had been fired from the direction of army-held territory, where misfired artillery rockets still containing cluster bomblets were found by villagers in farm fields. If confirmed, the use of cluster bombs by the pro-Western government could complicate efforts to reunite the country, as residents of the east have grown increasingly bitter over the Ukrainian Army’s tactics to oust pro-Russian rebels. “It’s pretty clear that cluster munitions are being used indiscriminately in populated areas, particularly in attacks in early October in Donetsk city,†Further, in a report released late Monday, Human Rights Watch says the rebels have most likely used cluster weapons in the conflict as well, a detail that The New York Times could not independently verify. Press officers for the Ukrainian military denied that their troops had used cluster weapons during the conflict and said that the rocket strikes against Donetsk in early October should be investigated once it was safe to do so. They also said that rebels in the area had access to powerful rocket systems from Russia that could fire cluster munitions. However, munition fragments found in and around Donetsk and interviews with witnesses indicate that the cluster munitions that struck Oct. 2 and Oct. 5 were most likely fired by Ukrainian troops stationed southwest of the city, according to Human Rights Watch and a review by The Times. Witnesses there reported seeing rocket launches from those troops’ positions toward the city at times that coincide with the strikes. ...........more: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/world/ukraine-used-cluster-bombs-report-charges.html --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cluster Bomb usage: To date 114 countries have joined the convention, of which 86 are States Parties, and the remaining 28 states are signatories and have yet to ratify the convention. Its time that more countries should join this convention to ban such a cruel weapon. Shelling civlian cities like in the Ukraine with cluster munition is unacceptable. Treaty Status: http://www.stopclustermunitions.org/en-gb/the-treaty/treaty-status.aspx A time line of cluster bomb use: http://www.stopclustermunitions.org/en-gb/cluster-bombs/use-of-cluster-bombs/a-timeline-of-cluster-bomb-use.aspx Putin-Poland and the Ukraine: The article about Sikorsky is interesting, I just wonder about why it took Poland more than 6 years to go public with this information after the protagonists did vanish into thin air. Edited October 21, 2014 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rydygier 1302 Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) The article about Sikorsky is interesting, I just wonder about why it took Poland more than 6 years to go public with this information after the protagonists did vanish into thin air. IMHO it's not common to reveal to the world such unofficial "diplomatic conversations" without a good reason (aka winds of politics). Question, "why exactly now?" is open (maybe Sikorski, lately moved on a side track, wanted to remind about himself), we already may read some commentaries and suppositions. For example is said, so before Crimea no one would believe that and it was pointless, plus, no one could be sure, if Putin was serious, and just after Crimea such statement would be a fuel for conflict escalation bringing more harm than good ("Nothing wrong in quiet about Putin offer: before Crimea nobody would have believed Warsaw; right afterwards it would have enflamed Ukraine." - quotation from Ben Judah, interviewer, from Twitter). Anyway, about Ukraine as "artificial creation" was apparently made also public statement from Russia side in 2008. What is interesting also, is reaction of Polish media and clearly surprised (not sure, if because of revealed Putin's offer or rather because of the fact of revealing it) politicians and Twitter discussion between Sikorski and journalist interviewing him about concept of authorization the interview. At the moment we only know, so according to Sikorski his words was "misinterpreted", while the journalist said, they just released, what was told and idea of interview authorization is completely new and unfamiliar to him. It's even kinda funny. "Authorization" of the interview is present in Polish law obligation, so interviewed can read and correct his statements before printing (without his post factum approval, interview can't be printed). Sometimes it's not bad, if interview was made without calm thought, but usually it serves to "smooth the edges", hide inconvenient statements, ignorance, lack of personal culture, also lack of jurnalist's professionalism etc. And it was apparently revealed now, when Sikorski, IMHO, was speaking as usual, assuming there will be authorization, while there is no such thing in USA law/journalism, so we see the result, I would call "unintentional honesty" (I suppose, intentional honesty is rare thing as for Polish/all politicians). Or maybe was printed exactly, what he wanted, and all this talking about lack of authorization is only smoke screen to pretend, it wasn't intentional. Edited October 21, 2014 by Rydygier Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted October 21, 2014 If you ever find yourself looking at a huge and powerfull explosion, turn around, close your eyes, open your mouth and cover your ears. That way you can keep your eardrums in one piece when the shockwave arrives. Using cluster munitions inside cities is totally fucked up... If what Sikorski is saying is really true then Putin is more like Hitler than I thought... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surpher 1 Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) (HRW) Ukraine: Widespread Use of Cluster Munitions Ukrainian government forces used cluster munitions in populated areas in Donetsk city in early October 2014, Human Rights Watch said today. The use of cluster munitions in populated areas violates the laws of war due to the indiscriminate nature of the weapon and may amount to war crimes. (BBC) Ukraine elections: 'The rebels beat me with guns' This week our correspondent Steve Rosenberg will be reporting from across Ukraine.His first stop is in the east, where separatist rebels control some territory, but not the town of Sloviansk. There he met a candidate who was persecuted by the rebels for supporting the Ukrainian army. (MDR) Wer ist die undichte stelle im parlamentarischen kontrollgremium Relates to the Spiegel story about the capture Ukrainian Buk. (Ukraine: War Log) Russian Elite GRU Spetsnaz Caught Sniping in Ukraine During "Ceasefire" On October 12th, Milchakov posted a photograph of himself on his VKontakte page, taking aim from a vantage point overlooking a railway bridge with a Russian made SVD-K 9.3mm sniper rifle. Edited October 21, 2014 by surpher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
